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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 24, 2018 11:12:43 GMT -5
In the 2018-19 college catalog, Christie is not listed as a member of the faculty of the music department. A course, History of the Organ, is offered every third year. The only mention of his name is an instruction that if a high school student is interested in applying for the 'organ scholarship' to email Professor Christie at a HC email address. This suggests that applicants auditioned before receiving the scholarship. I think the 'Professor' title reflects his position at Oberlin.
It would seem that his contact with the school, and with HC students, was intermittent. And given that students followed him to Oberlin from HC, for an HC student matriculating with the benefit of the Organ scholarship, the HC degree in music was not a terminal degree, as least with respect to the organ.
IMO, this is HC's version of #MeToo. There are currently #MeToo accusations being levied at other schools against professors by current/former students.
Professors of organ music appear hard to come by, Michigan's professor of organ music retired several years ago after teaching in Ann Arbor for 67 years!
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 24, 2018 11:21:44 GMT -5
Father Boroughs
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Post by hiltonheadcrusader on Aug 24, 2018 12:04:47 GMT -5
1. I don't have any doubt what we are hearing is true. 2. Given that the students involved were probably adults, there is likely no issues of statutory rape as we see at boarding schools. 3. If he got students drunk and then had relations with them when they were unable to consent, he may have criminal liability for claims that are within the statute of limitations. The College should formally notify the police and invite an investigation. 4. The nature of this type of abuse is that it happens in private and sometimes others don't know it is happening. This should not be taken as an opportunity to smack around administrators we don't like (I see td128 has already taken a shot at Father Reedy and bbc has taken one at Fr. Boroughs) If the investigation shows that they, or others, knew, or blindly looked away, we should be told and appropriate steps should be taken. 5. The College should have outside counsel launch an investigation today and have separate counsel (perhaps this is covered by insurance) prepared to try to resolve any liability claims (failure to supervise, etc.) as soon as possible. Bravo to these great Holy Cross alums who have the courage to stand up and call this guy out. They are truly men and women for others. Well, to some it may be deemed relevant that Fr. Reedy’s forced resignation from his Presidency @ Holy Cross (not to be confused with the “cover story” of health issues) has some direct parallels with Christie’s (I will be generous) character flaws. Perhaps others prefer to leave that mess swept under the rug where the BoT left it out of sight. 1994 seems noteworthy to me |
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Post by alum on Aug 24, 2018 12:16:00 GMT -5
1. I don't have any doubt what we are hearing is true. 2. Given that the students involved were probably adults, there is likely no issues of statutory rape as we see at boarding schools. 3. If he got students drunk and then had relations with them when they were unable to consent, he may have criminal liability for claims that are within the statute of limitations. The College should formally notify the police and invite an investigation. 4. The nature of this type of abuse is that it happens in private and sometimes others don't know it is happening. This should not be taken as an opportunity to smack around administrators we don't like (I see td128 has already taken a shot at Father Reedy and bbc has taken one at Fr. Boroughs) If the investigation shows that they, or others, knew, or blindly looked away, we should be told and appropriate steps should be taken. 5. The College should have outside counsel launch an investigation today and have separate counsel (perhaps this is covered by insurance) prepared to try to resolve any liability claims (failure to supervise, etc.) as soon as possible. Bravo to these great Holy Cross alums who have the courage to stand up and call this guy out. They are truly men and women for others. Well, to some it may be deemed relevant that Fr. Reedy’s forced resignation from his Presidency @ Holy Cross (not to be confused with the “cover story” of health issues) has some direct parallels with Christie’s (I will be generous) character flaws. Perhaps others prefer to leave that mess swept under the rug where the BoT left it out of sight. 1994 seems noteworthy to me Since I have absolutely no idea about what you are talking about with regard to Father Reedy, I can't comment. I know td128 has hinted about a dark story, too but you guys apparently have more insight than I do. |
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Post by CHC8485 on Aug 24, 2018 12:36:00 GMT -5
Awful day for me, personally. Jim played at my wedding in 1987 and arranging for a brass quartet to play at the ceremony. He has remained an acquantence but I've only spoken with him perhaps half a dozen times since our wedding. I have no words to describe my feelings right now or anything that will confirm of refute the contents of the article other than to say that in this day and age, I find nothing shocking. ____________________________ For the record, Jim Christie's first full year as the college organist was 1984-85, my senior year. That was also the first year he was the director of the schola. I know this becasue I sang with the schola all 4 years I was at HC. I am not certain, but I believe that he may also have served as an consutant in the construction of the Taylor & Booty organ and I seem to recall meeting him in the spring of 1984, when the organ was first functional. The Organ scholarship was at least queued up to be awarded my senior year and I seem to recall that the first organ scholarship may have been granted to a student matriculating in the Fall of '85 or '86 - but I can not say for sure. As I recall, they were originally planned to offer 1 scholarship every 4 years. It may have gone to 1 every other year in the late 90's early 2000's but it was obviously contingent on someone accepting it. ______________________ As to the accusers ... Why now? Fr. Boroughs wrote a letter to alumni last week asking people to come forward. Throw in the MeToo movement of the last year and it seems like a a couple of fairly easy dots to connect. As to Holy Cross' response to the letter, there is only one set of simple actions and I hope that the scool is taking them ... - Remove Christie (DONE)
- Turn the investigation over to the police. Grant them full access and let them have first crack at finding out what was going on and what legal course of action/prosecution must be taken.
- While that investigation proceeds, leave the specifics in this case to the pros, but hire the best outsider you can to review the overall policies and practices and where necessary change them to make them tighter, less ambiguous, according to that recommendation.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 24, 2018 16:46:20 GMT -5
If Christie's first year at Holy Cross was 1984-85, then that appointment occurred during Fr. Brook's tenure as President of the college. Fr. Reedy came to HC ten years later, from Fordham and had no previous association with HC. Thus, he was not a party to any decision to employ Christie as College Organist.
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Post by timholycross on Aug 24, 2018 18:35:12 GMT -5
Christie was college organist at Wellesley. Looking at the Wellesley College faculty and staff listings, his name appears to have been recently removed, even from server cache. Wellesley Patch October 27 2017 Not totally (given the one reference in that article to a woman), but for the most part the Wellesley student body didn't appeal to Mr. Christie. |
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Post by timholycross on Aug 24, 2018 18:41:14 GMT -5
If Christie's first year at Holy Cross was 1984-85, then that appointment occurred during Fr. Brook's tenure as President of the college. Fr. Reedy came to HC ten years later, from Fordham and had no previous association with HC. Thus, he was not a party to any decision to employ Christie as College Organist. Given the name on the scholarship there's no question that Father Brooks had more than a passing interest in the subject area. He was supposedly in charge of everything, at least that was the mantra 30 years ago. Guess Christie snuck by him. |
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Post by td128 on Aug 25, 2018 5:39:28 GMT -5
Well, given everything that has gone on in the church, in society, and on campus -- and that 20 years has passed -- in regard to GR there was a formal whistleblower submission made to members of the board and administration (including GR himself). I do not think there is anything to be gained by getting into the details of the submission on this board but the supporting facts within the submission were provided by independent/unconnected sources, some with HC connections and others without.
I have been reluctant to post this previously and take zero pleasure in sharing it now. I have no interest in continuing this specific line of discussion. I share this color at this point in time in light of this recent development and in the hope that Alma Mater will be well served if even just one person were to read this post and feel compelled/inspired to blow the whistle if/when appropriate. Nobody preemptively chooses to be a whistleblower per se.
What do I deem the lessons within the submission were?
The need for full and proper background checks prior to an individual arriving on campus and on a periodic basis thereafter.
Thorough review of calendars and expenses by an internal Office of Oversight or an iteration thereof.
Establishing an ombudsman on campus.
Perhaps oversight of these sorts are in place now but they certainly weren't in place 20 years ago.
I love Holy Cross immeasurably and post this simply as an expression of that love and that glory and honor will accrue to our college and our Lord and Savior now and in the future.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 25, 2018 10:06:24 GMT -5
In HC's biography of GR, there are descriptions of behavior that I consider to be quite questionable for the President of the college, or of any college.
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Post by Chu Chu on Aug 25, 2018 16:36:20 GMT -5
Father Boroughs Father Boroughs has acted courageously, in my view. I also appreciate that he has promptly communicated his actions to the entire Holy Cross community. That is not what we have seen in the past, as the administration has often kept quiet during moments of controversy. If the bishops had all acted in similar fashion when they were confronted with sexual abuse allegations, we would not be witnessing the implosion of the church we are experiencing today.
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Post by sader1970 on Aug 26, 2018 9:56:07 GMT -5
Where is this bio so that the rest of us can make our own judgement on his behavior. I wasn't aware the College has bios of the past presidents. I am aware that he had some issues but none relating to what you hint, unless you are putting nefarious purposes on his having "12 apostles" (student leaders who were supposed to give him student input/feedback).
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 28, 2018 11:44:13 GMT -5
Where is this bio so that the rest of us can make our own judgement on his behavior. I wasn't aware the College has bios of the past presidents. I am aware that he had some issues but none relating to what you hint, unless you are putting nefarious purposes on his having "12 apostles" (student leaders who were supposed to give him student input/feedback). The fraternization described is a bit too much. |
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Post by Chu Chu on Aug 28, 2018 11:47:39 GMT -5
Nothing incriminating that I could find in that link.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 28, 2018 11:58:33 GMT -5
Nothing incriminating that I could find in that link. I would not expect, for example, the president of Amherst to be inviting students over to the President's house to discuss the college experience over a beer, or glass of wine, of Glenlivet on the rocks. There were assertions made in this thread that GR crossed some boundaries. I don't know whether he did or not, but given the assertions, I could see where the apparent level of conviviality described in the bio could be seen as inappropriate for a college president. |
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Post by alum on Aug 28, 2018 12:09:15 GMT -5
I recall several Jebbies drinking in the pub with students back in the early 80s. That was not out of the ordinary. I don't know, in hindsight if it was a good idea, but it certainly made them more popular.
Jesuits lived on women's floors in the dorms when I was there. I think that the feeling was that they were quieter and neater.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 28, 2018 12:44:49 GMT -5
I recall several Jebbies drinking in the pub with students back in the early 80s. That was not out of the ordinary. I don't know, in hindsight if it was a good idea, but it certainly made them more popular. Jesuits lived on women's floors in the dorms when I was there. I think that the feeling was that they were quieter and neater. I won't get into the consumption of liquids outlawed by Prohibition by more than one Jesuit who lived in the dorms. But this phrase in the description of GR was the one that caught my eye: "...are already accustomed to his warm wit and the well-worn welcome mat outside his apartment door." [Emphasis mine] The president of the college has an office, a big office. If GR wanted to hold court with students, he ought to have done so in the more public space of the president's office; as I think his apartment is far too familial. |
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Post by sader1970 on Aug 28, 2018 12:56:47 GMT -5
Presumably this is the offending passage. Only an oblique reference to "spending a quiet moment with him in the pub after class" or "the well-worn welcome mat outside his apartment door" could be construed as potential issues with the former referencing before he became president and the latter after.
He will not go down in the Holy Cross annals as one of the top presidents in the history of the College but not everyone can be at the top. He's gone from Holy Cross and has departed this life. May he rest in peace whatever issues he had.
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Post by Chu Chu on Aug 29, 2018 12:07:16 GMT -5
As a freshman, I was invited out to dinner by Father Swords. Just he and I ate together in lower Kimball, before it was renovated. There was a private dining room there. It was his habit to invite random students to dinner in order to get a feel for how things were going. Father Reedy's behavior, as described, does not sound out of the ordinary for a college Jesuit to me.
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Post by Tom on Aug 29, 2018 12:42:31 GMT -5
I recall several Jebbies drinking in the pub with students back in the early 80s. That was not out of the ordinary. I don't know, in hindsight if it was a good idea, but it certainly made them more popular. Jesuits lived on women's floors in the dorms when I was there. I think that the feeling was that they were quieter and neater. I have no knowledge of what the details of this particular situation, but generally speaking in terms of appearance of impropriety, there is a big difference between meeting with students in the pub or even sharing a meal in the Jesuit dining room and a behind closed door meeting in one's room |
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Post by sader1970 on Aug 29, 2018 12:53:07 GMT -5
Have not seen any statements or allegations that he met with students behind closed doors in his room. But, even if he did, if there were multiple students in his room at the same time and they wanted to discuss student issues behind closed doors. I have no problem with that.
And, as a priest, while it would be better to go to a confessional in church or chapel, it is not unheard of for priests to counsel and/or hear a student's confession behind closed doors to maintain the seal of the confessional.
"Believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see" might be appropriate here.
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Post by rickii on Aug 29, 2018 13:53:10 GMT -5
So this is what greeted the class of 2022 and their families on move in day....wonderful....welcome to campus ! |
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Post by sader1970 on Aug 29, 2018 13:57:35 GMT -5
And for all of those incoming first year students who thought they were going to Holy Cross University, just wait until they find out the Crusader mascot is gone and they have to take a course with Professor Benny Liew.   [this certainly isn't their grandfather's Holy Cross anymore] |
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Post by JRGNYR on Aug 31, 2018 13:39:50 GMT -5
Let's not lose sight of the courage demonstrated by those who came forward. For those questioning why it took so long, think about the level of predation that's being alleged. That's extremely damaging to the victims, and not something that's easily communicated out. This type of predatory behavior seizes on vulnerabilities and counts on shame preventing the victim from speaking out. It's absolutely awful that it went on at all let alone the length of time, and the victims should be commended for coming forward when they did.
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Post by HCFC45 on Dec 1, 2018 8:29:47 GMT -5
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