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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Sept 3, 2018 14:08:26 GMT -5
May come as a total shock to you phreak, and we know you're not a spots fan, but there are still more non-alum regular fans at HC FB and MBB games than those who are graduates/student parents, etc, and it's the same in every revenue sport at nearly every D1 in the country. The problem with HC's fanbase is that it's aging and hasn't been equally back filled with younger folks. There are many reasons for this.
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Post by hc87 on Sept 3, 2018 14:20:18 GMT -5
I dunno....I think with football, in the 70s and 80s anyway, HC grads (and their families. friends etc) outnumbered the non-HC grad in terms of overall #'s at Fitton. Don't forget HC was an all male school through 1972, so a guy who graduated in 1972 was only in his mid/late 30s during the late 1980s. Add on to that all the grads from the 1940s, 50s and 60s still going to games in say 1988. Not to say we didn't have a significant non-HC grad fanbase then (of which ACTP was one) but overall I'd guess the breakdown would have been something like 2/3 HC grads and their families etc back then.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Sept 3, 2018 14:28:53 GMT -5
It's 2018.
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 3, 2018 14:38:42 GMT -5
Wouldn't you think the HC athletic department might actually do a survey of their fan base to see who buys tickets, who attends game and tries to find out why people don't go. We speculate why current students don't go . . . you know, walking up to the Hart Center is too far, and it's uphill; have to study in the library; gotta watch my best friend play tennis; etc. But we really don't know the actual reasons, it is speculation. As for the locals, we really don't know. The wonder is, why does NAD go?
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Post by hc87 on Sept 3, 2018 14:41:08 GMT -5
My point is that from around 1970-1989 (of which I can remember anecdotally) most fans at Fitton had a HC connection: either being a graduate, in the family of one, maybe a friend of one, HC students, family/friends/hs coach etc of a HC player. The non-HC grad/fan at Fitton then, while being larger in # then than now, didn't exceed the # of HC-grad and co. fans at Fitton back then. The average crowds then, particularly non BC, Homecoming, PW, the occasional big game against Colgate, Harvard, UMass etc were mostly in the 10-15K range...most of them were HC grads and the crowd they brought with them to Fitton. imo.
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Post by crosspride on Sept 3, 2018 14:52:16 GMT -5
HC did absolutely nothing to attract fans for decades. Partly because RW and Duffner squads were good enough to attract fans on their own, and partly because the previous athletic regime had zero interest in doing anything to engage the local casual fans when the teams play went south. To turn the local, casual fan mindset around after years of neglect is akin to turning around an aircraft carrier in a bathtub. You can keep harping on the “prior regime” but attendance has been much worse for football and hoops in the years since Pine took over compared to average of the 10 years prior. This despite all of his marketing efforts. Only difference is winning. Unless Pine all of the sudden figures out how to hire a good coach (Chesney tbd, most others are not looking good), all of the marketing in the world won’t help. Especially when it’s full of typos!
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Post by unhfan on Sept 3, 2018 15:03:35 GMT -5
I would think the biggest impact on HC and every other New England institution is the rise of pro sports! Pro sports are king in the 21 st century in New England!
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Post by gks on Sept 3, 2018 16:39:52 GMT -5
As a resident of CMass just a couple of thoughts/reasons on why HC has fallen off the sports fans' radar here.
1. HC's own de-emphasizing sports 2. Patriots got good and now dominate the fall. 3. NCAA and the de-regionalization (Is that even a word?) of football. 4. Widening gap of FCS and FBS. 5. Growth of AAU and youth sports. 6. They haven't been good.
It can come back. It just will take time and the will to win,.
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Post by trimster on Sept 3, 2018 17:53:05 GMT -5
Perhaps it is time to find our "lost" fans again. Many of our lost fans were the locals who used to sit in large numbers in the end zone seats. Sadly, for many years, practically no one and I do mean no one, has been occupying those seats.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 3, 2018 18:28:02 GMT -5
True enough.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Sept 3, 2018 20:06:45 GMT -5
Wouldn't you think the HC athletic department might actually do a survey of their fan base to see who buys tickets, who attends game and tries to find out why people don't go. We speculate why current students don't go . . . you know, walking up to the Hart Center is too far, and it's uphill; have to study in the library; gotta watch my best friend play tennis; etc. But we really don't know the actual reasons, it is speculation. As for the locals, we really don't know. The wonder is, why does NAD go? It's really simple for me now (and I've changed over the years): it's my escape from the pro mentality; real amateur athletics....low D1 (or FCS for football) imho is the highest level of real amateur basketball and football. Is it the highest lever? Course not, but for me it's like music - not everyone's favorite musicians are mainstream; it's just what gives you the most enjoyment.
Sadly, though, each year in hoops it seems like we lose someone in old Section F.......and I don't see replacements on the way at the moment. The only chance is to start by winning.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Sept 3, 2018 20:33:22 GMT -5
As in any business it's easier to keep customers you have than it is to secure new ones, and as I previously noted, a combination of multiple things, some in HC's control and some not has stunted new fan growth.
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 3, 2018 20:34:08 GMT -5
What? You want me to move down?! Heck, even 8485 has been "movin' on up."
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Post by CHC8485 on Sept 3, 2018 21:01:16 GMT -5
I’ve been in a chair seat since I started bringing the kids in 2003. Started in Section 5, moved to section 7 to get a better angle on the band when HC16 matriculated, and then moved to section 8 a couple of years ago to be closer to the cool kids in Section F.
So I’d say I’ve moved over more than up thru the years!
😁
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Post by HC92 on Sept 3, 2018 21:13:58 GMT -5
I’ve been in a chair seat since I started bringing the kids in 2003. Started in Section 5, moved to section 7 to get a better angle on the band when HC16 matriculated, and then moved to section 8 a couple of years ago to be closer to the cool kids in Section F. So I’d say I’ve moved over more than up thru the years! 😁 Just so long as we’re clear that you’ll never actually be one of the cool kids.
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Post by bfoley82 on Sept 3, 2018 22:42:14 GMT -5
No quotes from coaches or players ?? a short and pathetic article the T&G could not get a stringer ? Hen was at the Assumption and Kutztown game on Saturday...
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 4, 2018 7:22:52 GMT -5
I guess we just can't compete with big time college athletics.
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Post by alum on Sept 4, 2018 7:39:58 GMT -5
As a resident of CMass just a couple of thoughts/reasons on why HC has fallen off the sports fans' radar here. 1. HC's own de-emphasizing sports 2. Patriots got good and now dominate the fall. 3. NCAA and the de-regionalization (Is that even a word?) of football. 4. Widening gap of FCS and FBS. 5. Growth of AAU and youth sports. 6. They haven't been good. It can come back. It just will take time and the will to win, Good summary. One corollary to your #5 is the happy news that the thirty five to fifty year old crowd is not just attending their sons' soccer/basketball/baseball/football rec/travel/premier/AAU games, they are going to them for their daughters too. I would also add the slow decline of the local paper. HC is lucky to have a local paper which covers it, but fewer people read it every year. I think that if the team was successful on the field and the College did a better job of attracting fans, things might pick up to where we average 10,000 per game and that would be great. I think that would be the ceiling.
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Post by trimster on Sept 4, 2018 10:59:14 GMT -5
A legitimate 10,000 per game and 2,500 in men's hoops would be pretty good for a 1 AA program.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Sept 4, 2018 11:06:29 GMT -5
A legitimate 10,000 per game and 2,500 in men's hoops would be pretty good for a 1 AA program. We were right there under Dick Regan. 2008 football: 8,431 2006-07 basketball: 3,044
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Post by trimster on Sept 4, 2018 11:15:52 GMT -5
We also had RW, clearly an abberation, heading up the men's program.
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Post by crusader12 on Sept 4, 2018 11:17:19 GMT -5
As a resident of CMass just a couple of thoughts/reasons on why HC has fallen off the sports fans' radar here. 1. HC's own de-emphasizing sports 2. Patriots got good and now dominate the fall. 3. NCAA and the de-regionalization (Is that even a word?) of football. 4. Widening gap of FCS and FBS. 5. Growth of AAU and youth sports. 6. They haven't been good. It can come back. It just will take time and the will to win,. 7.) RSIG
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Post by CHC8485 on Sept 4, 2018 11:26:26 GMT -5
I’ve been in a chair seat since I started bringing the kids in 2003. Started in Section 5, moved to section 7 to get a better angle on the band when HC16 matriculated, and then moved to section 8 a couple of years ago to be closer to the cool kids in Section F. So I’d say I’ve moved over more than up thru the years! 😁 Just so long as we’re clear that you’ll never actually be one of the cool kids. That’s been clear to me since high school. 😢
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Post by WCHC Sports on Sept 4, 2018 11:43:29 GMT -5
One day we'll get the unexpected "W" (not a miracle by any stretch to beat a rival on the road) and not just have to be satisfied with silver linings. As encouraging as they may be, they don't count in the standings.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 4, 2018 18:25:23 GMT -5
I can no longer find football attendance by school for the pre-2000 decades.
Below is total attendance by conference for conference games only.
Ivy League attendance
1978 547,000 1983 651,000 1990 471,000 2000 456,000 2017 329,000
Patriot League attendance 1990 227,000 (six teams) 2000 215,000 (seven teams) 2017 182,000 (seven teams)
For the Ivies, the bottom seems to have fallen out in the 80's. Perhaps this coincided with the advent of cable, and proliferation of games being broadcast on the telly.
In the present millennium, I'll blame social media and smartphones.
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