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Post by hchoops on Feb 7, 2020 11:53:07 GMT -5
If you look at the herosports site with the positional rankings, once again you will see the ivies dominating the PL and even the CAA. They continue to take their football very seriously ! They can afford to when their financial aid (don’t use the “S” word) and number of players who receive it are almost unlimited.
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 7, 2020 11:57:38 GMT -5
I never would have guessed those educational paragons would be in the entertainment business!
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Post by richh on Feb 7, 2020 14:01:01 GMT -5
If you look at the herosports site with the positional rankings, once again you will see the ivies dominating the PL and even the CAA. They continue to take their football very seriously ! They can afford to when their financial aid (don’t use the “S” word) and number of players who receive it are almost unlimited. Princeton in particular. Ivies cap recruit classes to an avg of 30 over a 4 year period. The percentage receiving full rides is not very high. Funding tho isvessentially unlimited up to the 30 per year cap. Combine competitive need aid and Ivy rep, particularly for H-Y-P , and they can competete successfully vs any team.
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Post by richh on Feb 9, 2020 23:43:44 GMT -5
Herosports PL ranking out tonight. Georgetown took #1. 2.Holy Cross 3.Lehigh. On their metric Hoyas clear winner with 9 recruits in the top 25 for PL. Crusaders had 3 and Lehigh 4 in the top 25.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 10, 2020 0:01:14 GMT -5
Herosports PL ranking out tonight. Georgetown took #1. 2.Holy Cross 3.Lehigh. On their metric Hoyas clear winner with 9 recruits in the top 25 for PL. Crusaders had 3 and Lehigh 4 in the top 25. That is an astounding development. What is Georgetown doing differently to get such a dramatic change in recruiting results? Is this believable?
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 10, 2020 0:17:16 GMT -5
Two words: Varsity Blues. Georgetown is the only PL football school where it is documented that people will pay bribes to get their kids admitted, so admission to Georgetown must be a powerful tool on the recruiting trail.
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Post by gks on Feb 10, 2020 6:34:14 GMT -5
Herosports PL ranking out tonight. Georgetown took #1. 2.Holy Cross 3.Lehigh. On their metric Hoyas clear winner with 9 recruits in the top 25 for PL. Crusaders had 3 and Lehigh 4 in the top 25. That is an astounding development. What is Georgetown doing differently to get such a dramatic change in recruiting results? Is this believable? The former occupant of the head football position at Holy Cross always claimed that Georgetown's football equivalences were more than they led on...
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Post by hc2020 on Feb 10, 2020 6:49:28 GMT -5
I think much of this has to do with the number of recruits who accurately list their offers on social media. These rankings are fueled by scoring that is tied to and weighed by each recruit’s ranking within a team’s class. If some recruits either don’t list offers or don’t have any other offers, it tends to lower the team’s overall ranking based upon the point system that is used.
While it would be great to have the #1 spot in any polling, I think our class is strong across the board and that in the end is what matters most.
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Post by hcpride on Feb 10, 2020 7:43:01 GMT -5
Georgetown's got the prestige factor [and national recognition and location IMHO] over the rest of the PL. This trumps facilities, football amenities, and in some cases full football schollies. (Not always and not all the time, of course). It is just a question of tweaking Georgetown's financial aid to land additional above-average [PL-wise] talent. Not as easy as it sounds, of course.
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Post by hc2020 on Feb 10, 2020 8:15:25 GMT -5
I also think a lot of this scoring for ranking purposes may not take into consideration that most of our 2020 class committed to HC early over the summer. As a result, I suspect many of our recruits did not take additional visits to other schools and/or ceased communicating with recruiting coaches, which would have likely resulted in additional offers being made.
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Post by richh on Feb 10, 2020 8:57:27 GMT -5
Agree with most of the comments above. Hoya HC has always been an excellent recruiter, just massively underfunded. Andy Coen called GU a sleeping giant. There is little doubt that Hoyas have increased the need aid available for football. Offer sheets are a skewed metric but a bit more meaningful than stars. Not sure how much P5 offers really mean given that most now offer 300+ each year. We can assume tho that those staffs estimated that those prospects were capable of contributing to their team. The lack of offers is relevant but not a determinative factor. Lafayette's QB Shoemaker had no offers yet has performed spectacularly for Garrett. No matter that rankings are a fun diversion to help fill the time a bit until Spring practice.
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Post by hc2020 on Feb 10, 2020 9:05:46 GMT -5
Agree with most of the comments above. Hoya HC has always been an excellent recruiter, just massively underfunded. Andy Coen called GU a sleeping giant. There is little doubt that Hoyas have increased the need aid available for football. Offer sheets are a skewed metric but a bit more meaningful than stars. Not sure how much P5 offers really mean given that most now offer 300+ each year. We can assume tho that those staffs estimated that those prospects were capable of contributing to their team. The lack of offers is relevant but not a determinative factor. Lafayette's QB Shoemaker had no offers yet has performed spectacularly for Garrett. No matter that rankings are a fun diversion to help fill the time a bit until Spring practice. I’ll take our coaching staff over Georgetown’s staff every day.
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Post by dharry13 on Feb 10, 2020 9:10:28 GMT -5
Curious to see where HC finishes. They were #6 in November with 70% of the national recruits having been signed. Hopeful they get another top 20 class. Helps with press toward future recruiting. It’s all paper rankings but it does make a difference. And in general rankings tend to be accurate. Not always on an individual basis but collectively the rankings are right in determining future success.
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Post by purplehaze on Feb 10, 2020 9:29:06 GMT -5
If we can agree that the Ivy generally recruits better than the PL and that GU is using an aggressive Ivy model to recruit, then we can conclude that GU is a very serious contender going forward
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Post by hcpride on Feb 10, 2020 9:41:54 GMT -5
/\ Certainly HYP. Georgetown does not have their $$ in terms of need-based aid but certainly can similarly leverage prestige/national reputation to bring in some above average (for PL) players. For Georgetown, as I noted above, it is simply a matter of tweaking their need-based aid (I am not sure if they use the old IVY model of keeping a need- aid formula similar to the student body at large and merely substituting cash for loans/W-S or if they have moved to using a different formula for football players or something else. One thing we can be certain of is that they have not moved to the new HYP model of massive and identical financial aid for all qualifying students - including all athletes.)
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Post by hcgrad94 on Feb 10, 2020 9:41:55 GMT -5
If we can agree that the Ivy generally recruits better than the PL and that GU is using an aggressive Ivy model to recruit, then we can conclude that GU is a very serious contender going forward I will believe it when I see it with Georgetown FB. Hard for me to imagine that they have all of a sudden figured out some magic formula that will enable them to be consistently competitive in a sport they haven't been very good at since they reinstituted it. For obvious reasons, they COULD be good at football, but until they actually string together a championship or two it remains to be seen. This feels more like a blip than some institutional shift that all of a sudden prioritizes football.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 10, 2020 10:00:52 GMT -5
I also think a lot of this scoring for ranking purposes may not take into consideration that most of our 2020 class committed to HC early over the summer. As a result, I suspect many of our recruits did not take additional visits to other schools and/or ceased communicating with recruiting coaches, which would have likely resulted in additional offers being made. Nice insight--this makes a lot of sense to me
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 10, 2020 10:09:48 GMT -5
Remember, the coaches are now "filling in" to meet the team's (and their) needs. If they feel these players are the ones to do so, I go with that and feel confident. The true test of recruiting is, of course, the result we see on the field.
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Post by richh on Feb 10, 2020 10:18:01 GMT -5
There is no doubt that the Ivies led by H-Y-P consistently out recruit the PL and much of the rest of college football. In prior years in Herosports FCS rankings the Ivies dominated national team rankings. Herosports will continue to rank individual players in their system but will no longer do Ivy teams. This year it will only compare Ivy teams within the league. The rationale is that Ivies ability to bring in 30 to 40 recruits each year unfairly weights the metrics in their favor.
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Post by matunuck on Feb 10, 2020 10:26:01 GMT -5
Georgetown understands the role school rankings can play in enticing select athletes/students to attend. No doubt coaches point out the advantages of getting a GU degree given its national brand and high visibility with employers. Any who believes HC could drift downward in said rankings and still recruit like we do is delusional.
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Post by purple1 on Feb 10, 2020 10:58:11 GMT -5
Georgetown also has the ability to utilize the admission process to fit their needs. Basketball has a history and football also is subject to the same treatment, which other PL members are not able to enjoy. Some of their recruits were also not recruited, despite their star rating by certain PL schools. The finished product on the field will tell the story.
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Post by breezy on Feb 10, 2020 11:04:55 GMT -5
I have no wish to disparage any of the recruits listed in the Top 25 by Hero Sports. Indeed, I like to see every Patriot League team do well so that the rating of the PL in relation to other conferences goes up, and winning the PL is an accomplishment that cannot be minimized by pointing to the lack of strength of other PL members.
We have discussed on several occasions the way that ratings by Rivals or 247 Sports can fluctuate or be changed merely because of an offer by or commitment to an FBS school, so Hero Sports is justified in ignoring those ratings when it compiles its rankings. At the same time, considering all offers by FBS schools on an equal footing is also flawed. As has been stated, FBS schools may make offers in the hundreds (as do some PL schools) -- and those offers may become inoperative when another recruit commits at the position. So, at the end of the day, it is not really that the recruit is choosing a PL school over an FBS school; in some (perhaps many) cases it may be that the PL offer is the best option remaining open to the recruit.
Holy Cross offered a number of recruits on the list who signed with other PL schools. The one that got away and hurts the most is TE Stephen Brooks from Massachusetts who has committed to Georgetown (after initially committing to Columbia and then switching his commitment to Georgetown) -- because TE was a position of need during this recruiting cycle. I suspect (but have no actual knowledge) that in some cases Holy Cross stopped recruiting persons on this list when its needs were met by other commitments. I'm not going to speculate on any names.
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Post by trimster on Feb 10, 2020 11:10:13 GMT -5
Georgetown also has the ability to utilize the admission process to fit their needs. Basketball has a history and football also is subject to the same treatment, which other PL members are not able to enjoy. Some of their recruits were also not recruited, despite their star rating by certain PL schools. The finished product on the field will tell the story. Not able to enjoye? I thought Georgetwn football was subject to the AI just like the rest of the member PL programs. Am I wrong?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 10, 2020 11:38:11 GMT -5
Georgetown also has the ability to utilize the admission process to fit their needs. Basketball has a history and football also is subject to the same treatment, which other PL members are not able to enjoy. Some of their recruits were also not recruited, despite their star rating by certain PL schools. The finished product on the field will tell the story. Not able to enjoye? I thought Georgetwn football was subject to the AI just like the rest of the member PL programs. Am I wrong? Georgetown and Fordham are subject to the PL AI for football only. Georgetown has a higher school-wide AI than HC does, and the school-wide AI sets the baseline against which the standard deviation bands for each school are calculated. All recruited athletes submit their standardized test scores to the NCAA clearinghouse. The NCAA has a very junior version of the AI, the purpose of which is, except in the case of UNC, to preclude the admittance of stellar athletes who are barely literate.
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Post by hchoops on Feb 10, 2020 11:46:18 GMT -5
Not able to enjoye? I thought Georgetwn football was subject to the AI just like the rest of the member PL programs. Am I wrong? Georgetown and Fordham are subject to the PL AI for football only. Georgetown has a higher school-wide AI than HC does, and the school-wide AI sets the baseline against which the standard deviation bands for each school are calculated. All recruited athletes submit their standardized test scores to the NCAA clearinghouse. The NCAA has a very junior version of the AI, the purpose of which is, except in the case of UNC, to preclude the admittance of stellar athletes who are barely literate. You can add quite a few “schools” to UNC. In fact the whole SEC.
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