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Post by alum on Nov 16, 2018 10:24:08 GMT -5
Just remember when you are mocking this that alums from the class of 1928 likely mocked HC students for the BSU walkout after the GE recruiting protests. We just had a thread about a leader of that group,Ted Wells, getting an honorary degree. crossports.freeforums.net/thread/3223/ted-wells-honoredThese kids view the issues of LGBTQ rights, sexual assault and harassment as important civil rights issues just as students back in the late 1960's viewed race and the war in that same way. I bet those old grumps from the class of 1928 were calling for Father Swords to be fired for giving in to Ted Wells, Art Martin, and their friends. No doubt events on campus, progressive and otherwise, elicit varying reactions. Certainly there are varying views (beyond the academic progressive views) on many issues and one hopes all views have a voice on campus. The last thing one wants to see is an attempt to enforce a lockstep progressive orthodoxy.
It remains well within the realm of possibility that Fr. B is overreacting in a 'virtue signaling' sort of way - I would certainly respect and defend the right of anyone to suggest that.
BTW as a student of language and usage I have increasingly noticed the labelling of criticism/commentary/disagreement as the term 'mocking'. Of course I've also noticed that kids state 'going to prom' rather than 'going to the prom' nowadays. So there may be nothing to that.
mock verb \ˈmäk, ˈmȯk\ mocked; mocking; mocks Definition of mock (Entry 1 of 4) transitive verb 1 : to treat with contempt or ridicule : DERIDE he has been mocked as a mama's boy — C. P. Pierce Take a look at what dadominate wrote and tell me it is not mocking. Sometimes I read what dadominate, bbc, and sov write and figure that there are clever students who have created these profiles so that HC alumni look silly (or worse.) |
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 16, 2018 10:28:43 GMT -5
perhaps the + stands for "etc." (etcetera)?
The incident cited should never have happened. I pray the student involved is recovering physically and emotionally from it. But, I do wonder why the entire school came to a halt over what (from official HC reports) appears to have been the only such incident in the last four years. Is this reaction a precedent? Will the whole school stop all activities to take sensitivity training for every incident that takes place in the future? I doubt that will happen, but what sort of outcry will there be over the first incident that is not recognized in this way.
(BTW: I find the title Social Justice Warrior excessively violent and objectionable. Perhaps we could call them CFSF (Crusaders for Social Justice)?
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Post by hcpride on Nov 16, 2018 10:50:15 GMT -5
perhaps the + stands for "etc." (etcetera)? The incident cited should never have happened. I pray the student involved is recovering physically and emotionally from it. But, I do wonder why the entire school came to a halt over what (from official HC reports) appears to have been the only such incident in the last four years. Is this reaction a precedent? Will the whole school stop all activities to take sensitivity training for every incident that takes place in the future? I doubt that will happen, but what sort of outcry will there be over the first incident that is not recognized in this way. (BTW: I find the title Social Justice Warrior excessively violent and objectionable. Perhaps we could call them CFSF (Crusaders for Social Justice)? That makes sense (although the trail of letters [LGBTTQQIAAP+] has become so long one wonders if some person - if I can still use that word - could possibly be excluded from it).
The term 'virtue signaling' might apply to what folks might view as an overreaction for the purposes of showcasing/furthering progressive ideals by Father B. Of course, others might view it (ENGAGE) as perfectly appropriate and long overdue.
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Post by nhteamer on Nov 16, 2018 11:04:47 GMT -5
STAT
SAFE PLACE
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Post by dadominate on Nov 16, 2018 11:16:25 GMT -5
Canceling classes, sports practices, etc. for some BS exercise in how to become a professional victim being veiled as creating a “culture of inclusion”?!? What an EMBARRASMENT. Holy Cross was always inclusive, athletes lived in the regular dorms with the rest of the students (a rarity), liberal arts meant majors of all types interacted with one another, there is no Greek system so students weren’t isolated to their frat/sorority, etc. This is no longer the Holy Cross I knew and loved with such passion. It’s just another SJW training ground that won’t see another donation from me anytime soon. So long as we maintain a true student-athlete focus, I will always be a diehard fan of Holy Cross men’s basketball (call me toxic masculine, I couldn’t care less), but the school itself sadly just doesn’t resonate at all with me anymore. While I'm not sure I agree with the particulars, some of these seminars aren't as horrible as people think they are. I think the seminar entitled "Engaging the Community on the Prevention of Sexual Misconduct" sounds like a pretty good idea right now. What happened to that student last month was wrong. That student was not a professional victim. but an actual victim. I never heard if the culprit was caught or even determined to be part of the HC community. If the perpetrator was not part of the community then the reaction would be silly - kind of preaching to the choir. Now there are alleged reports of all kinds of sexual assaults on campus. If these reports are true and part of the community is assaulting others, maybe there needs to be a little education. Maybe guys need to be taught that date rape is rape. Maybe guys need to learn that it is not honorable to cover for a buddy who has assaulted someone and that a person committing these crimes really isn't deserving of that honor or a true friend. I'm also of the anti-progressive opinion that the whole LBGTQ thing confuses the issue. Assaulting people is wrong, whether that person is from a marginalized group or not. The fact that the most recent victim was LBGTQ does not make this crime any more or less severe to me. We don't need to sit around a campfire sitting Kumbaya. But if there is any truth to the allegations put forth in that website(maybe yes, maybe no - definitely worthy of investigation) some culture change might be in order. I say these things as someone who is leaning more and more to the right. I mock the notion that schools should be "safe spaces" from bad ideas. Schools should be safe places where a student doesn't have to be worried about walking to their dorm late at night. I don't think a lot of these seminars don't address the problem, but IF that website has any truth behind it, there is a problem that needs to be addressed. Just a morning rant from the opposition that normally mocks this stuff. On to Stoneybrook i certainly agree that rape is a serious problem as is real racism, genuine exclusion, and blind hatred based solely on identity of any sort. the vast majority of straight, white, males would agree with this wholeheartedly. particularly those who attend holy cross, a jesuit institution in which the ideals of love, tolerance, and service to others are (or at least were) the cornerstones. the problem both societally - and clearly at holy cross - is that these real problems are cheapened by victimhood-seeking and unceasingly looking for marginalization in places where it simply doesn't exist. the racist, homophobic, and even nazi accusations have been thrown around so liberally and unjustifiably that they have been cheapened to the point that it is the little boy crying wolf to the extreme. many people have become so desensitized to the fact that these vile accusations are lobbed carelessly whenever you disagree with SJW (or CFSJ to borrow from rgs,) that they tune out as soon as they hear them. even when they are actually justified in situations. i look forward to the wolf coming to eat the little boy of SJWism at holy cross, as it did to bret weinstein at evergreen state (an intelligent and conscientious man who realized that his line of thinking created a monster), because those who feel that they are more marginalized than others who also think they are marginalized will ultimately cannibalize themselves in a way that is laughable to the rest of the world. as for the hc class cancellation specifically, i agree with you that the session on rape sounds like it would be valuable to many. valuable enough to cancel classes for EVERYONE... probably not. but to bbc's point, the fact that there are 64 sessions in one afternoon - many of which are pure nonsense - obfuscates and cheapens the real problem of rape. this is indicative of this mentality that is poisoning college campuses, with holy cross sadly among them. |
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Post by dadominate on Nov 16, 2018 11:23:44 GMT -5
No doubt events on campus, progressive and otherwise, elicit varying reactions. Certainly there are varying views (beyond the academic progressive views) on many issues and one hopes all views have a voice on campus. The last thing one wants to see is an attempt to enforce a lockstep progressive orthodoxy.
It remains well within the realm of possibility that Fr. B is overreacting in a 'virtue signaling' sort of way - I would certainly respect and defend the right of anyone to suggest that.
BTW as a student of language and usage I have increasingly noticed the labelling of criticism/commentary/disagreement as the term 'mocking'. Of course I've also noticed that kids state 'going to prom' rather than 'going to the prom' nowadays. So there may be nothing to that.
mock verb \ˈmäk, ˈmȯk\ mocked; mocking; mocks Definition of mock (Entry 1 of 4) transitive verb 1 : to treat with contempt or ridicule : DERIDE he has been mocked as a mama's boy — C. P. Pierce Take a look at what dadominate wrote and tell me it is not mocking. Sometimes I read what dadominate, bbc, and sov write and figure that there are clever students who have created these profiles so that HC alumni look silly (or worse.)rest 100% assured that we feel the same way when reading your posts. it's as if they come from an alternative universe in which logic, facts, fairness, and consistency have been completely eliminated. |
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Post by dadominate on Nov 16, 2018 11:25:57 GMT -5
to add a little bit of levity to a disturbing situation at holy cross, this is a pretty amusing parody of college campuses today  i apologize in advance if it triggers anyone! no microagression intended! |
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Post by td128 on Nov 16, 2018 11:41:57 GMT -5
Safe places? I hope that phrase is never confused with "not taking appropriate risks so as to achieve meaningful personal growth." Sometimes I wonder if the phrase is used in such an all encompassing fashion that it covers an All of the Above framework.
I would hope that HC promotes a culture and community in which students are encouraged to move well beyond their "safe" places so they develop meaningful relationships and growth in the process. Sometimes I wonder if promoting "safe" places actually has the exact opposite result of what HC would want in terms of promoting personal growth. I guess one could mix and match that phrase and the many usages.
This said, I do empathise with those students on campus who are the target of inappropriate behaviors. There is certainly no room for that. Where and how that line is drawn may be difficult but I think it is certainly better to err on the side of safety and respect. What else helps? I would think a healthy environment on campus in which exciting and engaging activities are prevalent and regularly scheduled should be helpful to fostering a culture in which mutual respect is promoted and expected >>> What helps advance this environment? >> WINNING TEAMS >> Get those kids out of their dorms and cloistered quarters so they meet and engage others from outside their comfort zone and have some FUN while they are doing it!!
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Post by lou on Nov 16, 2018 11:43:34 GMT -5
Have no fear gents, in this digital age, I'm sure they will manage to "tape" all 64 sessions which will then be available to watch and listen to at any time. So just maybe all the discussions will be useful.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Nov 16, 2018 11:52:55 GMT -5
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 16, 2018 12:04:22 GMT -5
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Post by Tom on Nov 16, 2018 12:47:52 GMT -5
perhaps the + stands for "etc." (etcetera)? The incident cited should never have happened. I pray the student involved is recovering physically and emotionally from it. But, I do wonder why the entire school came to a halt over what (from official HC reports) appears to have been the only such incident in the last four years. Is this reaction a precedent? Will the whole school stop all activities to take sensitivity training for every incident that takes place in the future? I doubt that will happen, but what sort of outcry will there be over the first incident that is not recognized in this way. (BTW: I find the title Social Justice Warrior excessively violent and objectionable. Perhaps we could call them CFSF (Crusaders for Social Justice)? In addition to the one incident, one of the links makes reference to a website that alleges a number of assaults on campus, Sufficient number to suggest a pattern. I don't put a lot of blind faith in anonymous postings or websites, but the nature of the allegations is serious enough that it deserves investigation. I think the possibility of a pattern is the driving factor behind this day. While even one attack is too many, I don't think that alone prompted the response |
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Post by matunuck on Nov 16, 2018 13:05:51 GMT -5
Have any more facts (or a police report) about this incident been released yet or anyone arrested? I'm just catching up on this. Many thanks.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Nov 16, 2018 14:49:39 GMT -5
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 16, 2018 15:04:21 GMT -5
perhaps the + stands for "etc." (etcetera)? The incident cited should never have happened. I pray the student involved is recovering physically and emotionally from it. But, I do wonder why the entire school came to a halt over what (from official HC reports) appears to have been the only such incident in the last four years. Is this reaction a precedent? Will the whole school stop all activities to take sensitivity training for every incident that takes place in the future? I doubt that will happen, but what sort of outcry will there be over the first incident that is not recognized in this way. (BTW: I find the title Social Justice Warrior excessively violent and objectionable. Perhaps we could call them CFSF (Crusaders for Social Justice)? In addition to the one incident, one of the links makes reference to a website that alleges a number of assaults on campus, Sufficient number to suggest a pattern. I don't put a lot of blind faith in anonymous postings or websites, but the nature of the allegations is serious enough that it deserves investigation. I think the possibility of a pattern is the driving factor behind this day. While even one attack is too many, I don't think that alone prompted the response The article states that there were 77 anonymous complaints about sexual assault posted to the Instagram account in just the 4-5 days that the account was active, so I'm guessing the "complaints" would have kept pouring in if the account stayed active. I don't know just how much Boroughs has killed the culture on campus since he's been there, but when I was on the Hill (thankfully part of the culture that existed before him), people looked out for one another and word spread around fast. That's not to say that everyone was an angel and nothing bad happened, but if issues were as widespread as this Instagram insinuates, everyone would have known about it on campus. In no way am I making light of sexual assault, but I call B.S. on that anonymous stunt. |
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Post by Crucis#1 on Nov 16, 2018 15:07:44 GMT -5
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 16, 2018 15:30:28 GMT -5
The article states that there were 77 anonymous complaints about sexual assault posted to the Instagram account in just the 4-5 days that the account was active, so I'm guessing the "complaints" would have kept pouring in if the account stayed active. I don't know just how much Boroughs has killed the culture on campus since he's been there, but when I was on the Hill (thankfully part of the culture that existed before him), people looked out for one another and word spread around fast. That's not to say that everyone was an angel and nothing bad happened, but if issues were as widespread as this Instagram insinuates, everyone would have known about it on campus. In no way am I making light of sexual assault, but I call B.S. on that anonymous stunt. Sir: I was with you until your last sentence. Why would you label the website an "anonymous stunt"? Is it a stunt, not to be taken seriously or not to be believed because it was anonymous? Surely, an obviously really bright person such as yourself could readily understand that there might be perfectly understandable and valid reasons for these complaints to be made anonymously and as another poster stated, these complaints should all be taken seriously and fairly investigated because of their nature. Respectfully. LoveHC There are many better ways to address the issues than posting them anonymously to a public Instagram profile. For one, if the organizer(s) of the account brought the issue forward to the school, rather than publicly through Instagram, I'm certain that the school would have helped facilitate a way for individuals to share their stories even if they wanted to remain anonymous. I could create an anonymous Instagram profile right now, attach it to any college in the country, and then just start crafting any stories that I felt like writing. Not to make this political, but the Kavanaugh disaster should have taught a valuable lesson about what can happen if things snowball without any accountability for the stories that people are telling/creating. |
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 16, 2018 15:45:17 GMT -5
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Post by hcpride on Nov 16, 2018 15:45:26 GMT -5
1. The aggravated assault and battery motivated by bias (sexual orientation) allegation [ www.worcestermag.com/news/20181028/update-hate-crime-reported-on-holy-cross-campus-in-worcester ] IMHO is best addressed via law enforcement. I have seen no arrest report nor any details on the attack. Apparently this sort of bias attack allegation is particularly rare at HC as another poster noted. I believe I read that the college did hold a vigil in any case. 2. The Dinand library story in the recent article [ www.worcestermag.com/news/20181113/holy-cross-in-worcester-to-cancel-classes-activities-friday-amid-assault-complaints ] really had nothing to do with the Holy Cross prevailing culture (Someone, who has since been arrested and is not a student, snuck onto campus and exposed himself in the library and apparently did it at Assumption also.) 3. It does seem the multiple and anonymous postings on the Instagram account were the impetus for the workshops/seminars/etc today [see above link]. Sports teams were singled out as contributing to the problem. A few of the workshops do seem aimed at the particular issues raised on the Instagram account. Some of the issues might be best suited for law enforcement. Hopefully that point will be made although it does not seem to be a topic of planned conversation [ www.holycross.edu/engage/schedule ]. As far as the effectiveness of these sorts of workshops, that is another question altogether. |
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Post by dadominate on Nov 16, 2018 15:52:31 GMT -5
There are many better ways to address the issues than posting them anonymously to a public Instagram profile. For one, if the organizer(s) of the account brought the issue forward to the school, rather than publicly through Instagram, I'm certain that the school would have helped facilitate a way for individuals to share their stories even if they wanted to remain anonymous. I could create an anonymous Instagram profile right now, attach it to any college in the country, and then just start crafting any stories that I felt like writing. Not to make this political, but the Kavanaugh disaster should have taught a valuable lesson about what can happen if things snowball without any accountability for the stories that people are telling/creating. Ah, I get it. You disregard any of the legitimate reasons for anonymity in a public instagram and substitute your own solution, namely , forwarding the complaint privately to the school as the only way to deal with the problem otherwise the complaint is relegated to merely being a stunt. Are you being open- minded? Please don't bring up Kavanaugh as it is unrelated to the HC occurrence and it is not allowed to be discussed on this board even though I like most Americans do believe Dr. Ford. And,I do see a connection as to your views on the topic of sexual assault. LoveHC please don't bring the topic up because it is not allowed to be discussed... but let ME go ahead and discuss it anyway! typical. |
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 16, 2018 15:56:05 GMT -5
I suspect BBC matriculated before Clery Act reporting took hold. Middlebury's Clery Act report runs 120+ pages most of it covering reporting procedures and protocols.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 16, 2018 15:58:55 GMT -5
With cases such as this, an accusation does the most damage (to a person or the school). Whether or not something actually happened is a distant second when it comes to determining the effects. Keeping that in mind, anonymity can allow attacks and damage to be done without anything like a fair hearing. Going over this only exaggerates that negative impact. For that reason I won't be posting again on this thread.
Have a good Thanksgiving all.
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Post by thecrossisback on Nov 16, 2018 16:08:09 GMT -5
This is absolutely ridiculous canceling classes. Its just what the idiot's who carried out the attack want.
Borough's either needs to step up his game or retire.
Right now he seems to have one foot in and the other out.
He either needs to confront this or not.
Even Worcester State last year had a few of these incidents. At least we didn't have to miss class and have a conference to tell people that already behave accordingly how to behave!
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 16, 2018 16:32:15 GMT -5
Rapes at Worcester State: 3 in 2015, 6 in 2017, 8 in 2018. Eight incidents of dating violence in 2017. Apparently not all students have gotten the message about behaving.
I'm pretty certain there are very few classes at HC that meet on Friday afternoons. That class schedule inhibits the start of the long weekend. If students had their way, classes would only meet Tues-Wed-Thurs.
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Post by crosspride on Nov 16, 2018 17:04:02 GMT -5
Just remember when you are mocking this that alums from the class of 1928 likely mocked HC students for the BSU walkout after the GE recruiting protests. We just had a thread about a leader of that group,Ted Wells, getting an honorary degree. crossports.freeforums.net/thread/3223/ted-wells-honoredThese kids view the issues of LGBTQ rights, sexual assault and harassment as important civil rights issues just as students back in the late 1960's viewed race and the war in that same way. I bet those old grumps from the class of 1928 were calling for Father Swords to be fired for giving in to Ted Wells, Art Martin, and their friends. Would you equate the tolerance for African Americans in 1928 to the tolerance of the LGBTQ community in 2018? Especially, tolerance among those attending Holy Cross at each time? |
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i apologize in advance if it triggers anyone! no microagression intended!
