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Post by Crucis#1 on Nov 16, 2018 17:13:55 GMT -5
An article from Newsweek in 2014. Seems relative to our discussion: www.newsweek.com/inside-colleges-killed-frats-good-231346Even though we did not have fraternities at HC, the frat bro culture did exist. This created a hostile culture to women visiting, similar to the Middlebury incident cited.
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Post by dadominate on Nov 16, 2018 17:54:39 GMT -5
please don't bring the topic up because it is not allowed to be discussed... but let ME go ahead and discuss it anyway! typical. Typical of what dude? Insinuation? No surprise coming from you. Disappointing Tuesday? typical self-absorbed hypocrisy. that’s what’s typical. not so ironically, you brought up politics a SECOND TIME in this thread after declaring it off limits for bbc. can’t help yourself from doing one thing/saying another and having the last word, can you? p.s. - as for ”tuesday”, i’m not aligned with any party, so i have no idea what you’re trying to accomplish.
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Post by bison137 on Nov 16, 2018 18:19:43 GMT -5
I say let the school handle this issue as it sees fit! Agree? I am going to stay out of this thread for the most part. But I very much disagree with this. Some schools have covered up things - especially with athletes. But on the other hand, schools have set up kangaroo courts, with no rights for the accused and a guilty-until-proven innocent attitude that has "convicted" many innocent people. One example of the latter is a Bucknell athlete, who transferred there after being thrown out of Brown after an accusation (never even shown to him) of rape. There was little investigation and no chance for him to question witnesses. And Brown actively impeded a subsequent investigation. Fortunately Bucknell did a fairer review than Brown and realized that it was almost certainly a bogus accusation - made by the daughter of a major donor. Later it was proven that her accusations were a pack of lies - but it came close to ruining his life. The money he received from Brown after a later lawsuit was hardly fair compensation for what they did to him. That is one reason why schools should not be allowed to handle it as they see fit.
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Post by hcpride on Nov 16, 2018 19:17:24 GMT -5
I am going to stay out of this thread for the most part. But I very much disagree with this. Some schools have covered up things - especially with athletes. But on the other hand, schools have set up kangaroo courts, with no rights for the accused and a guilty-until-proven innocent attitude that has "convicted" many innocent people. One example of the latter is a Bucknell athlete, who transferred there after being thrown out of Brown after an accusation (never even shown to him) of rape. There was little investigation and no chance for him to question witnesses. And Brown actively impeded a subsequent investigation. Fortunately Bucknell did a fairer review than Brown and realized that it was almost certainly a bogus accusation - made by the daughter of a major donor. Later it was proven that her accusations were a pack of lies - but it came close to ruining his life. The money he received from Brown after a later lawsuit was hardly fair compensation for what they did to him. That is one reason why schools should not be allowed to handle it as they see fit. Bison, Good point! How does a school proceed to provide an objective investigation without prejudice or favor? I believe that the Dep't. of Ed provides guidelines for the schools to follow. It must be a legal proceeding possibly with legal representation, maybe provided by the school if requested and the protection of due process. Obviously, the Bucknell hearing provided a remedy to the injustice at Brown. Bison - similarly false rape allegations two years ago essentially destroyed the life of a male Columbia University student. In that case I believe the school's process cleared him but the damage done to his reputation by the false allegations led to a settlement between the falsely accused and Columbia. The girl went around with a mattress around her back and whipped up support for her false charges: www.cnn.com/2017/07/16/us/columbia-university-mattress-project-lawsuit/index.htmlI don't know why schools even get involved in cases that should clearly be in the hands of the courts. With severe consequences for the guilty and severe consequences for the false accusers.
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Post by Tom on Nov 16, 2018 22:27:34 GMT -5
As I understand it there is a big difference between HC's situation and that at Brown and Columbia noted above.
The attack a month ago sounds quite legitimate, but no one has been accused. The assailant was unknown.. The website doesn't accuse any individual, although there are unspecified athletes. The website supposedly is more about a culture of assaults with no specific allegations
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Post by hcpride on Nov 17, 2018 5:40:09 GMT -5
As I understand it there is a big difference between HC's situation and that at Brown and Columbia noted above. The attack a month ago sounds quite legitimate, but no one has been accused. The assailant was unknown.. The website doesn't accuse any individual, although there are unspecified athletes. The website supposedly is more about a culture of assaults with no specific allegations Is there any indication the unknown assailant in the aggravated assault and battery motivated by bias (sexual orientation) allegation [ www.worcestermag.com/news/20181028/update-hate-crime-reported-on-holy-cross-campus-in-worcester ] was a Holy Cross student? I only ask because the Dinand Library story in the recent article [ www.worcestermag.com/news/20181113/holy-cross-in-worcester-to-cancel-classes-activities-friday-amid-assault-complaints ] has nothing to do with HC student conduct (alleged or proven) as far as I can tell. Someone, who has since been arrested and is not an HC student, has been charged with exposing himself in the Dinand and Science Libraries... and is also charged with doing so at Assumption. The anonymous Instagram accusations apparently are a separate issue altogether and at least some referenced the conduct of HC sports teams: "...the account detailed more than 50 stories of sexual assault on campus, some of them naming specific athletics teams as perpetuating a culture of silence. Stories were collected anonymously through a google form linked to the account." Dissatisfaction with the Title IX process were noted although it was not clear if criminal charges were filed relative to any or all of the anonymous stories of sexual assault on HC's campus. . (Brown and Columbia cases illustrate the harm inflicted on victims of false campus sexual assault allegations.)
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Post by Tom on Nov 17, 2018 9:17:07 GMT -5
Nothing has been publicly said about the identity of last month's assailant. As far as publicly released information, the suspect may or may not have been a member of the HC Community. There could be unreleased details that would answer that question. The original articles posted refer to the suspect. Given the singular use of the word, the only thing we can assume is that there was only one attacker
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Post by bison137 on Nov 17, 2018 13:34:34 GMT -5
I am going to stay out of this thread for the most part. But I very much disagree with this. Some schools have covered up things - especially with athletes. But on the other hand, schools have set up kangaroo courts, with no rights for the accused and a guilty-until-proven innocent attitude that has "convicted" many innocent people. One example of the latter is a Bucknell athlete, who transferred there after being thrown out of Brown after an accusation (never even shown to him) of rape. There was little investigation and no chance for him to question witnesses. And Brown actively impeded a subsequent investigation. Fortunately Bucknell did a fairer review than Brown and realized that it was almost certainly a bogus accusation - made by the daughter of a major donor. Later it was proven that her accusations were a pack of lies - but it came close to ruining his life. The money he received from Brown after a later lawsuit was hardly fair compensation for what they did to him. That is one reason why schools should not be allowed to handle it as they see fit. Bison, Good point! How does a school proceed to provide an objective investigation without prejudice or favor? I believe that the Dep't. of Ed provides guidelines for the schools to follow. It must be a legal proceeding possibly with legal representation, maybe provided by the school if requested and the protection of due process. Obviously, the Bucknell hearing provided a remedy to the injustice at Brown. First, the guidelines put forth a few years ago by the DOE are extremely one-side in favor of the accuser. The accused in many cases has virtually no chance to defend himself/herself. The paper written by the Harvard law professors, protesting Harvard's policies, ennumerate some of the problems: www.lankford.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Law-Professor-Open-Letter-May-16-2016.pdfSecond, Bucknell's acceptance of this student didn't begin to provide a remedy for Brown's mistreatment. Before his legal actions against Brown, he had an expulsion on his record with the reason being rape. Fortunately in his case, the flimsy pack of lies told by the accuser fell apart, and he was awarded a large amount of money for nearly having his life ruined. Unfortunately she didn't have to face any legal procedure. A jail term would have been appropriate.
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Post by hcpride on Nov 17, 2018 14:17:36 GMT -5
Yes, the reason why a SHU student sits in jail is because she filed false criminal sex assault charges v 2 SHU football players. abc7ny.com/ex-college-student-sentenced-for-false-rape-accusation/4039403/The false accusers in the Brown and Columbia cases filed false allegations in the college system. As I noted before, I don't understand why colleges get involved in what are clearly serious criminal allegations. The criminal justice system will ensure due process and offenders and false accusers are both subject to severe penalties.
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Post by hc87 on Nov 17, 2018 17:54:30 GMT -5
Rapes at Worcester State: 3 in 2015, 6 in 2017, 8 in 2018. Eight incidents of dating violence in 2017. Apparently not all students have gotten the message about behaving. I'm pretty certain there are very few classes at HC that meet on Friday afternoons. That class schedule inhibits the start of the long weekend. If students had their way, classes would only meet Tues-Wed-Thurs. That was my schedule one semestah...it was glorious...pretty sure it was my best GPA semestah
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 18, 2018 10:36:08 GMT -5
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 19, 2018 5:54:21 GMT -5
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Post by hcpride on Nov 19, 2018 7:33:10 GMT -5
Given this: " In its first week, The Sexual Assault On The Hill account detailed more than 50 stories of sexual violence on campus, some of which named specific athletics teams as perpetuating a culture of silence. A letter archived by the account on Nov. 9 indicated moderators had received a cease and desist letter from a college-affiliated sports team and that they would no longer name specific teams in favor of maintaining the integrity of a space for survivors to share their experiences."
I found this interesting: "More than 1,000 students, staff and faculty took part, with many student-athletes wearing their team-issued gear to demonstrate support."
(Question: Support of whom?)
Also interesting: “The football team is away,” she said of the Crusaders, who ended their season in Washington, D.C. Saturday. “It’s a shame they were on a plane.” and "The football team was not present for what college President Rev. Philip Burroughs called “ENGAGE Summit: Where Do We Go From Here?”, due to prior travel obligations."
Couldn't help notice the additional quotes related to athletics.
www.worcestermag.com/news/20181118/inside-holy-cross-summit-that-shut-down-classes-activities-friday
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 19, 2018 7:55:46 GMT -5
As the article noted, the 'cease and desist' did not come from the college.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 19, 2018 10:10:28 GMT -5
To be precise, I believe it said that it did not come from the Public Relations director/department at the college.
It appears that the overall event was successful and that a dialogue may have started.
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Post by hcpride on Nov 19, 2018 10:32:14 GMT -5
Agreed: From the article: " In its first week, The Sexual Assault On The Hill account detailed more than 50 stories of sexual violence on campus, some of which named specific athletics teams as perpetuating a culture of silence. A letter archived by the account on Nov. 9 indicated moderators had received a cease and desist letter from a college-affiliated sports team and that they would no longer name specific teams in favor of maintaining the integrity of a space for survivors to share their experiences. John Hill, director of media relations for Holy Cross clarified the College did not initiate the cease and desist letter in question." (Emphasis added.)
There does seem to be an athletic component to this entire issue. (And not in a good/positive way.)
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 19, 2018 11:54:46 GMT -5
Agreed: From the article: " In its first week, The Sexual Assault On The Hill account detailed more than 50 stories of sexual violence on campus, some of which named specific athletics teams as perpetuating a culture of silence. A letter archived by the account on Nov. 9 indicated moderators had received a cease and desist letter from a college-affiliated sports team and that they would no longer name specific teams in favor of maintaining the integrity of a space for survivors to share their experiences. John Hill, director of media relations for Holy Cross clarified the College did not initiate the cease and desist letter in question." (Emphasis added.)
There does seem to be an athletic component to this entire issue. (And not in a good/positive way.) That is something ADNP and a coach(s) will need to address. If a few athletes on a particular team(s) succeed in antagonizing half or more of the student body, that further undercuts campus support (which is becoming pretty woeful in any event).
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Post by bison137 on Nov 19, 2018 12:06:20 GMT -5
After glancing at the summaries of the complaints and their disposition, it appears to me that the system at Yale is working. Some complaints were dropped for various reasons and others were accepted and acted on in various ways. Would it have been preferable for Yale to refer all these complaints to the police without any involvement by the school? But possibly Yale should do more. With no facts on any of the cases, I don't think it's possible to draw any conclusions. If half of those who were "convicted" were innocent - but other complaints were dropped - would that mean the system is working? Just by looking at the lawsuits and various stories, it's clear the system does not work at many schools.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 19, 2018 12:07:27 GMT -5
In reading the Yale Daily News article regarding the former Yale football player, the article noted that the semi-annual report on sexual misconduct prepared by the Yale provost is apparently submitted to the U.S. Department of Education. In searching to see whether HC also submits such a report and if so, whether it was on-line, I did not find it, but found this. Who knew? www.holycross.edu/sexual-respect-and-title-ix
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Nov 20, 2018 14:45:10 GMT -5
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Post by hcpride on Nov 20, 2018 16:27:07 GMT -5
The arraignment confirms the accused Dinand Library exposer was not a Holy Cross student.
If and when a suspect is arraigned in the aggravated assault and battery motivated by bias (sexual orientation) allegation we'll know whether or not he is a Holy Cross student. While the incident was reported to Holy Cross, I do not know whether there has been a criminal complaint in the matter.
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Post by HCFC45 on Dec 2, 2018 9:09:07 GMT -5
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Post by hcpride on Dec 2, 2018 9:18:06 GMT -5
That is, indeed, interesting. It is unclear if HC's investigation found no evidence that there was a hate crime committed or HC's investigation could find no evidence as to the assailant. Or both. Or neither. WORCESTER – The College of the Holy Cross announced on Friday it had suspended its investigation into a reported hate-motivated assault that allegedly occurred on campus a month ago. While the college never provided details about the incident, students said the victim, a LGBTQ-identifying student at the college, was called a slur and then punched by another student while walking across the campus on Oct. 27. “I am writing today to report that after almost 200 hours devoted to this investigation, including the viewing of over 100 hours of security camera footage and more than 40 interviews, all leads have been exhausted at this time,” Dorothy Hauver, Holy Cross’ vice president for Administration and Finance, wrote in an email to the campus on Friday.
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Post by hcgrad94 on Dec 2, 2018 10:59:30 GMT -5
Believe it is up to the victim to ask for police involvement. Once they ask it's automatic.
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 2, 2018 13:23:25 GMT -5
Although they still call it the Department of Public Safety, I believe a few years back we had some discussion that a number of those folks were trained in the use of, and wear, firearms after being trained as police officers. I believe some of the "campus cops" are indeed considered police officers by the state and the DPS as such might also be considered a police department with investigative authority. They can, I am sure, like town/city cops are able to ask for assistance from the state police, can and should ask for assistance from Worcester City or State Police. We really shouldn't think of these folks as the "rent-a-cops" that we had decades ago.
Posters here, like Tom, Crucis and a few others are better informed than I am and might chime in here.
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