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Post by sader1970 on Dec 9, 2018 16:58:59 GMT -5
You know, if you do all those things, you are probably going to lose money, right? And, if you haven't heard already "Holy Cross is not in the entertainment business."
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Post by timholycross on Dec 9, 2018 19:43:06 GMT -5
Let me share a brief conversation (OK, my monologue) with NAD at the DCU yesterday. Ticket prices are too high for Holy Cross events and many do not see it as a good value - especially those lacking purple in their veins. I was specifically referring to football games in Fitton Field but you can expand the discussion to basketball in the Hart Center. Talking about football first. We have a 23,000+ seat stadium. Those seats "cost" the same whether there is someone's fanny in it or not. I suspect Coach Chesney and the team would much rather see 15,000+ fans than 5,000. I believe ticket prices are $10+/- depending on special promotion days. Lower the price to $5 for adults, $2-3 for kids, kids under 5 free. My guess is that you will have so many more people going that would more than make up for any "lost" revenue at $10 per ticket. Seeing crowds back in Fitton, especially re-gaining the loyalty of local Worcesterites would be worth it. Here's a radical notion. Designate one football game a year as a "Thank You, Worcester!" game where everyone with a Worcester address gets in free. You want to "Worcester's Team?" Show some appreciation. A similar price reduction should be explored for the Hart Center. If we truly want to be "Worcester's Team" again, let's make it more affordable for families to attend. Oh, yeah, and we must win too! I remember Harvard had Cambridge Day; that was in the 70s (maybe longer) and it cost a buck to get in Harvard Stadium. Pro rate to 2018 prices, maybe $5 for Worcesterites (or better still, make it Worcester County), very good deal for everyone. I'd like to see a comparison of what Holy Cross charges for football and basketball to non-students vis-a-vis its competition.
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Post by thecrossisback on Dec 9, 2018 20:58:19 GMT -5
Lets be honest as well. You have no students at any of these games for HC. How many students when to the HC vs Lehigh and HC vs Fordham game. None. The college should start renting some buses and doing things to get the students to the games!
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Post by bikeman on Dec 9, 2018 21:05:46 GMT -5
The only way to increase attendance, as I've said many times, is to sell more season tickets. That isn't going to happen while in the PL. There is no buzz about anything HC. But.... Anyone who went to the BC football game saw 15-20000 HC fans. I'm telling you, if HC decided to go "all in", Worcester would be "all in" as well.
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 10, 2018 0:47:03 GMT -5
Thanks rf1, that was a long and informative piece that wasn't just cut and pasted from other sources. I am glad RI got something of quality like the Ryan Center from public funds as opposed to the 38 Studios fiasco. I agree with others that HC should keep prices low to build up a fan base. Spags closed but the "Spags mentality" in Central Mass. never left, at least I never lost it. With ooc home games, all PL games and some ooc road games free on the internet, HC is competing with itself when tickets get above $10 at this competitive level.
I have noticed that HC has built up the Athletic Administration Infrastructure to accommodate larger crowds and greater interest from a higher profile program, but right now they are all dressed up in a white sports coat and a pink carnation waiting for the teams' performances to grow into the available support. I remember when Frank Mastrandrea handled everything about five staffers do now and he answered every question and returned every call or email promptly from any interested fan. I bet you could have called him in the afternoon and asked him to add something to that evening's Hoops Hospitality menu from Boomers and he would have called it in. I hope he is doing well.
On the bright side, Women's Hockey has advanced to play in a power conference after excelling at a lower level, Men's and Women's BB appear to be rebounding (pun intended) with winning records and football has a dynamic young coach and proven builder of winning programs. Onward and upward.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Dec 10, 2018 6:32:53 GMT -5
It should be noted, since cfrivals started this particular thread: I know he has little use for the PL, but he (and his sons) still show up at most games (and has all the while). Dave, you know me very well. I have always supported this team although I never agreed with the PL decision. I for one love the DCU games and wish they had one or two each year against a higher level program. I made the Worcester’s team thread because I think the last chance the school had was 2001-2005. That was the best opportunity to upgrade and market the heck out of the program. That opportunity was wasted and led to the departure of RW and the 10 year demise of the program. As others have mentioned, there is so much going on with sports these days, you can watch about 30 games a night, and also catch every HC game online. Why attend a live game? The program needs to win! Win and WIN! If they can do that consistently and upgrade the schedule, get on tv and win those games, maybe people will start to notice. But just to say you are Worcester’s team, not yet! Yup - that's what I meant by "opportunity lost" on Saturday.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 10, 2018 7:01:29 GMT -5
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 10, 2018 7:22:55 GMT -5
2,000 or so for a HC basketball game is about what HC drew at the Auditorium, plus maybe 500 male students. I'd love to know what the average attendance was when HC played with the Gahdin as a home court.
Four decades ago, the Hart averaged 4,000 with perhaps about 1,000 of those being students, so 3,000 fans might just be the ceiling for Worcester when it comes to support of HC basketball. Unlike for Providence College, there is no long-standing tradition of community support, which is inter-generational, for HC basketball.
In 1978, with the Hart open, HC averaged 3,900, Providence averaged 9,200 and BC averaged 2,600.
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Dec 10, 2018 8:21:43 GMT -5
My dad (a huge HC fan) took me to see HC (with Heinsohn) play ND at the Boston Garden in 1955. As I recall, the place was packed. Coincidentally, my uncle played football for ND that same year (AP All American)
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 10, 2018 8:24:54 GMT -5
My dad (a huge HC fan) took me to see HC (with Heinsohn) play ND at the Boston Garden in 1955. As I recall, the place was packed. Coincidentally, my uncle played football for ND that same year (AP All American) Quite a memory! I am sure you treasure it.
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Post by timholycross on Dec 10, 2018 9:03:04 GMT -5
2,000 or so for a HC basketball game is about what HC drew at the Auditorium, plus maybe 500 male students. I'd love to know what the average attendance was when HC played with the Gahdin as a home court. Four decades ago, the Hart averaged 4,000 with perhaps about 1,000 of those being students, so 3,000 fans might just be the ceiling for Worcester when it comes to support of HC basketball. Unlike for Providence College, there is no long-standing tradition of community support, which is inter-generational, for HC basketball. In 1978, with the Hart open, HC averaged 3,900, Providence averaged 9,200 and BC averaged 2,600. Supposedly Perini Corp offered to build (for the same money) the Hart Center at a larger capacity and Father He Who Didn't Always Know Best squashed that. I figure that higher figure pretty much was the ceiling* for Holy Cross Basketball, or maybe the size of Conte Forum; when the team was going great guns most games would have been near or close to capacity. Remember when Perry was coming the season tickets were sold out in the middle of the summer! I almost didn't get one because my student ticket contact graduated (how dare he)! Now as far as the evolution of the sport goes, something along those lines wouldn't attract any opponents "bigger time" than HC is currently playing. The bigs don't play in other schools' mid sized venues. *pun intended. To make things worse the roof as built made/would make demolition the only possibility for the arena to be larger. The stands could never go higher than they are.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 10, 2018 9:30:41 GMT -5
Roberts at BC had seating of 4,400. Conte was built roughly 12 years after the Hart and seats 8600.
HC's max attendance of 4,000 always included standing room. I expect Perini might have built something equivalent to Roberts seated capacity for about the same price. The costs start escalating once the trusses holding up the roof have longer span lengths.
There was mention a while back of another, presently-regretted design choice made by TPTB re: Hart: was it a choice of a pool over a rink, or vice versa? Or having the rink integral to the Hart, rather than stand-alone? I can't remember.
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Post by trimster on Dec 10, 2018 9:36:34 GMT -5
Roberts at BC had seating of 4,400. Conte was built roughly 12 years after the Hart and seats 8600. HC's max attendance of 4,000 always included standing room. I expect Perini might have built something equivalent to Roberts seated capacity for about the same price. The costs start escalating once the trusses holding up the roof have longer span lengths. There was mention a while back of another, presently-regretted design choice made by TPTB re: Hart: was it a choice of a pool over a rink, or vice versa? Or having the rink integral to the Hart, rather than stand-alone? I can't remember. The TPTB consisted of one man. He made all of the decisions.
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Post by CHC8485 on Dec 10, 2018 10:14:10 GMT -5
Roberts at BC had seating of 4,400. Conte was built roughly 12 years after the Hart and seats 8600. HC's max attendance of 4,000 always included standing room. I expect Perini might have built something equivalent to Roberts seated capacity for about the same price. The costs start escalating once the trusses holding up the roof have longer span lengths. There was mention a while back of another, presently-regretted design choice made by TPTB re: Hart: was it a choice of a pool over a rink, or vice versa? Or having the rink integral to the Hart, rather than stand-alone? I can't remember. As I understand it from reading archives of the Crusader, the original design of the Hart had a pool and not a rink. Students petitioned for a rink and won the decision based on the ability of the to generate more revenue by renting the rink to local youth hockey leagues. Pool came about 7 years later opening in January 1983. Will see see if I can find the article detailing rink vs. pool when I have a few minutes in the next few days.
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Post by rf1 on Dec 10, 2018 10:29:06 GMT -5
Thanks rf1, that was a long and informative piece that wasn't just cut and pasted from other sources. I am glad RI got something of quality like the Ryan Center from public funds as opposed to the 38 Studios fiasco.
The sad reality is that while URI is a state school, it's Ryan Center arena actually was offered and or got the least public financial support of any of the arena/stadium proposals that the state of RI has been involved in since 2000.
Ryan Center 2002
The state of RI only really contributed about 1/3 of the 54M cost of the Ryan Center back in 2002. 1/3 was paid for via bonds (backed by the state) that are still to this day being paid off by URI via student fees and venue revenues. The other 1/3 was paid for via URI fundraising and corporate sponsorship naming rights.
Dunkin Donuts Center 2005
The state of RI funded its entire purchase from the city and renovation to the tune of some 100M in bonds. The RI Convention Center Authority which pushed the project and assumed operation of it was headed by a chairman (David Duffy) that was a PC grad and former trustee and vice chairman (Dave Gavitt) that was the former coach and AD at PC. The prime beneficiaries of this project are its two main tenants which are private - Providence Bruins and PC Friars basketball. The arena continues to require an annual multi-million dollar subsidy from the state to cover its operations and debt.
Proposed Pawsox Stadium 2018
The public money for the proposed new RI stadium (83M) for the Pawsox was only 45% public money (36M). The Worcester stadium and surrounding area improvements will be 77% publicly financed (100M). The team chose Worcester because nearly three times as much public money was offered.
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Dec 10, 2018 10:31:23 GMT -5
Thanks rf1, that was a long and informative piece that wasn't just cut and pasted from other sources. I am glad RI got something of quality like the Ryan Center from public funds as opposed to the 38 Studios fiasco.
The sad reality is that while URI is a state school, it's Ryan Center arena actually was offered and or got the least public financial support of any of the arena/stadium proposals that the state of RI has been involved in since 2000.
Ryan Center 2002
The state of RI only really contributed about 1/3 of the 54M cost of the Ryan Center back in 2002. 1/3 was paid for via bonds (backed by the state) that are still to this day being paid off by URI via student fees and venue revenues. The other 1/3 was paid for via URI fundraising and corporate sponsorship naming rights.
Dunkin Donuts Center 2005
The state of RI funded its entire purchase from the city and renovation to the tune of some 100M in bonds. The RI Convention Center Authority which pushed the project and assumed operation of it was headed by a chairman (David Duffy) that was a PC grad and former trustee and vice chairman (Dave Gavitt) that was the former coach and AD at PC. The prime beneficiaries of this project are its two main tenants which are private - Providence Bruins and PC Friars basketball. The arena continues to require an annual multi-million dollar subsidy from the state to cover its operations and debt.
Proposed Pawsox Stadium 2018
The public money for the proposed new RI stadium (83M) for the Pawsox was only 45% public money (36M). The Worcester stadium and surrounding area improvements will be 78% publicly financed (100M). The team chose Worcester because nearly three times as much public money was offered.
Would you just get over it? Please
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Post by rf1 on Dec 10, 2018 11:48:24 GMT -5
Would you just get over it? Please
Why? Discussion of topics such as these never really end.
FYI:
There were conversations/posts/tweets between URI supporters (not just me) and RI media members that went to the DCU Center game about the crowd size and the possible comparisons to potential WooSox attendance at their new park. Get ready to constantly hear and read how the numbers at the new baseball park compare to the best drawing years in Pawtucket. This is guaranteed to be trotted out over and over again whether you like it or not. Attracting just 2,132, with nearly half the crowd there for the visiting team, for a college basketball game downtown does not exactly bode well.
Other comments from URI supporters that may be of concern to you as well. Many thought the 36 year old DCU Center seemed a bit old and tired needing a big overhaul. Most Rhody fans are used to the newer Ryan Center that opened in 2002 and the DDC in Providence that had a massive 2005 renovation. My guess is that Worcester taxpayers will begin to hear more about the need for a big and costly renovation to the DCU Center in order for it to attract and or keep events/tenants. I would bet this discussion will really take off once the new baseball stadium is up and running. The DCU Center will then look pretty shabby compared to a nearby brand new venue. Hold onto your wallets. Public financing for these types of facilities never ends with just their construction.
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Post by lou on Dec 10, 2018 12:18:01 GMT -5
I hope the team enjoys playing at the DCU, because personally I'm not a fan. I like my comfy chairback seat at the Hart. For a season ticket holder, DCU seat selection did us no favors. I have plenty of leg room at the Hart, none at the DCU. I like being on campus and I like the Hart Center vibe. Oh and parking is free
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Dec 10, 2018 12:26:38 GMT -5
Would you just get over it? Please
Why? Discussion of topics such as these never really end.
FYI:
There were conversations/posts/tweets between URI supporters (not just me) and RI media members that went to the DCU Center game about the crowd size and the possible comparisons to potential WooSox attendance at their new park. Get ready to constantly hear and read how the numbers at the new baseball park compare to the best drawing years in Pawtucket. This is guaranteed to be trotted out over and over again whether you like it or not. Attracting just 2,132, with nearly half the crowd there for the visiting team, for a college basketball game downtown does not exactly bode well.
Other comments from URI supporters that may be of concern to you as well. Many thought the 36 year old DCU Center seemed a bit old and tired needing a big overhaul. Most Rhody fans are used to the newer Ryan Center that opened in 2002 and the DDC in Providence that had a massive 2005 renovation. My guess is that Worcester taxpayers will begin to hear more about the need for a big and costly renovation to the DCU Center in order for it to attract and or keep events/tenants. I would bet this discussion will really take off once the baseball stadium is up and running. The DCU Center will then look pretty shabby compared to a nearby brand new stadium. Hold onto your wallets.
Perhaps there are only 2,000 at the game because, no offense, the opponent was URI. Also, how many HC students were there? From what I heard there were very few students attending. If you can’t get the student population to show up for a game then why would the city at large. Finally, I don’t think the DCU Center looks tired at all. In fact I prefer watching sporting events there over the Boston Garden. Trying to bring the failure of Rhode Island to retain the AAA affiliate in to this discussion is ridiculous.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 10, 2018 13:25:53 GMT -5
Why? Discussion of topics such as these never really end.
FYI:
There were conversations/posts/tweets between URI supporters (not just me) and RI media members that went to the DCU Center game about the crowd size and the possible comparisons to potential WooSox attendance at their new park. Get ready to constantly hear and read how the numbers at the new baseball park compare to the best drawing years in Pawtucket. This is guaranteed to be trotted out over and over again whether you like it or not. Attracting just 2,132, with nearly half the crowd there for the visiting team, for a college basketball game downtown does not exactly bode well.
Other comments from URI supporters that may be of concern to you as well. Many thought the 36 year old DCU Center seemed a bit old and tired needing a big overhaul. Most Rhody fans are used to the newer Ryan Center that opened in 2002 and the DDC in Providence that had a massive 2005 renovation. My guess is that Worcester taxpayers will begin to hear more about the need for a big and costly renovation to the DCU Center in order for it to attract and or keep events/tenants. I would bet this discussion will really take off once the baseball stadium is up and running. The DCU Center will then look pretty shabby compared to a nearby brand new stadium. Hold onto your wallets.
Perhaps there are only 2,000 at the game because, no offense, the opponent was URI. Also, how many HC students were there? From what I heard there were very few students attending. If you can’t get the student population to show up for a game then why would the city at large. Finally, I don’t think the DCU Center looks tired at all. In fact I prefer watching sporting events there over the Boston Garden. Trying to bring the failure of Rhode Island to retain the AAA affiliate in to this discussion is ridiculous. Tough to say the opponent was the reason for the attendance on Saturday when the Worcester Railers are averaging 4,115 fans in the same building this year playing against the likes of the Newfoundland Growlers and Orlando Solar Bears. The lack of attendance has far more with HC's inability to actually execute successful marketing initiatives that move needle, poor scheduling, poor engagement with the student body, and most importantly 10 years of a pretty dreadful product. The PL and the teams on our schedule certainly impose some type of ceiling on the number of fans that we can expect to draw, but we are significantly below that ceiling due in large part to factors that we have total control over.
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Post by timholycross on Dec 10, 2018 16:14:43 GMT -5
At some point they'll want to renovate the place and perhaps someone will make the case that a new place is cheaper. I went to the high school finals there a few years ago. I thought the lighting was not very good, maybe it was the background, but dark was the thing I remember most about the trip.
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Post by joe on Dec 10, 2018 17:38:56 GMT -5
HC basketball and hockey in a real D1 conference, coupled with Railers succes, leads to a justified renovation of the DCU, and everyone is happy. So obvious. For now, the DCU is just fine. It’s not a beauty queen but it shines up good and is more than modern enough. We’re lucky to have it in our backyard. Problem here is recognition, then planning, and then, of course, execution.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 10, 2018 18:15:51 GMT -5
That third point can really gum things up.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 10, 2018 20:58:13 GMT -5
Is it logical to guess that URI said: "we will play you only at the DCU, never at your Hart Center"?
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 10, 2018 21:12:17 GMT -5
Is it logical to guess that URI said: "we will play you only at the DCU, never at your Hart Center"? YES. Our prior series was a two-for-none. Both guarantees at Ryan. The DCU game was only way to get them to come to Worcester IMO -- I'll take it. Obviously, it wasn't played downtown because of the need for extra seating.
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