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Post by WCHC Sports on Dec 10, 2018 9:51:46 GMT -5
From goholycross.com footnotes after Saturday's game: Holy Cross is 7-16 all-time at the DCU Center.
We barely fill the place with enough people to fill the Hart Center, even accounting for the fans and pageantry that our opponents bring. We stick loyal fans and ticket holders in crap seats. There is no capable scoreboard with facts and figures on the players ("game reset"-type information). It is cavernous for the number of attendees. Remote broadcasts of the game have been less-than-reliable. We probably lose money renting the place out. We don't WIN GAMES.
We have a court on campus. It is our home court. Play there.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 10, 2018 9:55:11 GMT -5
Broadcasts are "less than reliable?" You are far too kind.
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Post by rf1 on Dec 10, 2018 9:55:19 GMT -5
7-16 is not all that bad when you consider that Holy Cross has played mostly all higher level opponents there.
The main reason Holy Cross plays there is because it is one of the only ways to get higher level opponents.
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Post by gerry on Dec 10, 2018 10:07:26 GMT -5
A-10 teams clearly will not play at the Hart Center. Even low level teams like George Mason have refused to play there. If you want A-10, or maybe even upper level CAA teams playing in Worcester, you are likely going to have to bite the bullet and play downtown.
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Post by purplehaze on Dec 10, 2018 10:15:13 GMT -5
I tend to agree that the DCU really doesn't work very well. I would not mind playing in the DCU but only against teams from a stronger conference than the A-10. You could have fit that crowd easily into the Hart with plenty of rooms to spare.
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Post by trimster on Dec 10, 2018 10:16:41 GMT -5
7-16 is not all that bad when you consider that Holy Cross has played mostly all higher level opponents there. The main reason Holy Cross plays there is because it is one of the only ways to get higher level opponents. Exactly. Top 100 programs are not going to agree to a series with HC if it involves playing a game at the Hart Center. HC has put itself in a position where those teams dictate the particulars if they want to plus us.
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Post by lou on Dec 10, 2018 10:20:25 GMT -5
And if its considered a home game rather than neutral, a loss is a bit hit in the NET formula
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Post by WCHC Sports on Dec 10, 2018 10:48:44 GMT -5
7-16 is not all that bad when you consider that Holy Cross has played mostly all higher level opponents there. The main reason Holy Cross plays there is because it is one of the only ways to get higher level opponents. Reasonable and I considered this in my post... but what's the trade-off? We play an A-10/MAAC team in the DCU (big whoop), or we play a PL/Ivy-level team at the Hart? We're playing Iona at their home court, are we not? We're not going to MSG or even the Westchester County Center. The jump to play an almighty A-10 team at the DCU is not worth the downside, in my opinion. If we were playing Gonzaga or UNC or Oregon in the DCU center, it's a different story, and the place would probably have a few thousand more fans in the seats. But, URI? Come on, let's be serious. Last year, no DCU game. The last three opponents? UMASS, BC, UMASS. Not exactly bringing in murderer's row with that bargaining chip. If we have to clamor to bring a team "in" to play us essentially on neutral court, in a game we're likely to lose anyway, what is the advantage? If they don't want to play us, screw 'em. Let's start winning 30 games a season and worry about strength of schedule when the NCAA snubs us on Selection Sunday.
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Post by rf1 on Dec 10, 2018 11:13:18 GMT -5
You are likely never going to get the likes of Gonzaga, UNC, and Oregon to play Holy Cross at the DCU Center. The probability that any P5 or BE schools will play at the DCU Center is extremely low as well. At best, you are looking at teams from conferences such as the A-10 and AAC being your only options to play at the DCU Center with the more local regional members being the most realistic. If that venue is off the table, most of the teams from these leagues would not agree to games in Worcester. Sorry but a Patriot League team that is not a perennial NCAA Tourney team and is located in a second tier city does not have much leverage when trying to secure return games. That is the reality.
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Post by bigfan on Dec 10, 2018 11:27:16 GMT -5
I love playing at the DCU Center. The only problem is not enough games, if you want more people in the seats you need to play more than 1 game every other year. Schedule three games every year with quality opponents and the people will come. Also we need better athletes to compete with those types of teams. The URI team killed us on the boards with better athletes.
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Post by gks on Dec 10, 2018 11:32:52 GMT -5
Kind of a tug of war here...Want to play at Hart but "big time" teams won't play there.
My opinion is that if it's a true big-time team then it's fine. URI or UMass screw 'em. They don't deserve to dictate terms like this.
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Post by rf1 on Dec 10, 2018 11:56:34 GMT -5
Kind of a tug of war here...Want to play at Hart but "big time" teams won't play there. My opinion is that if it's a true big-time team then it's fine. URI or UMass screw 'em. They don't deserve to dictate terms like this.
You are basically then accepting that Holy Cross will probably never play teams at a much higher level ever again in Worcester.
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Post by alum on Dec 10, 2018 12:04:19 GMT -5
In order to decide whether we want games at the DCU, don't we first need to figure out what the nonconference schedule should be? I would like to see something like this every year:
1. As many games as we can get from PC, UConn, and BC. 2. Two to four games from other teams in the Power 5 conferences or the Big East--preferably from the Big 10, Big East or ACC. 3. As many A10 games as we can get 4. A couple of Ivy's 5. Fill in with Northeastern Catholic colleges.
I am comfortable with playing groups 1 and 2 on the road. I would try to get some A10 games at home and would play them in the DCU Center if necessary. In groups 4 and 5, we get home games every other year.
This is just an outline. There will be tournaments and maybe a West Coast swing once every four years. I would rather play anyone anywhere in the out of conference schedule. I think that it would help recruiting and name recognition.
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Post by rf1 on Dec 10, 2018 12:10:06 GMT -5
I get that fans don't like playing off campus. URI for some 25 years had to play many of its higher profile opponents 30 miles off campus in Providence from the mid 1970's to 2000. The court bore the name of its biggest rival (PC) and had to be covered over with temporary decals. The rivals banners still hung from the rafters above. URI had a losing record in the venue similar to Holy Cross with it relating to better competition. Season ticket holders had the hassle of different seat locations which sometimes did not make them happy.
Even with the Ryan Center on its campus and being a member of the A-10, Rhody continues to struggle to get higher profile OOC opponents to play in Kingston. The best OOC team to play this year at the Ryan Center is likely to have been Harvard. URI had hoped top 5 ranked Nevada would honor its return game to RI this year after it went out to Reno for the start of a home and home last year. Nevada however did not want to return the game and because URI had agreed to a contract with a small 50k buyout amount, the Wolfpack paid the fee to get out. URI is playing West Virginia next Sunday at Mohegan Sun. This game only came about when URI agreed to a return game in Morgantown next year. There is to be no game at all in the state of RI. This was the best URI could do to get such a quality opponent.
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Post by Ray on Dec 10, 2018 12:10:59 GMT -5
Annoying as it is, URI and UMass don't really play road games in New England, except against Providence and BC. Looking at recent schedules, the only exceptions I can find are that UMass has ongoing home-and-home with Harvard, and made a trip to Quinnipac last season. So, in some sense, playing a 2-1 with the "1" being DCU is more of a concession than they're making to any other local opponent (with those two exceptions).
We presumably have the option to take a guarantee payday from either of these teams rather than the 2-for-1. While I certainly wish these games were on campus, I like having a rotating set of 2-for-1s such that we play one of PC/BC/UMass at the DCU each year. URI? Eh, that's less exciting to me (sorry, rf1), but if PC isn't willing to make that deal, URI is a fine proxy.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Dec 10, 2018 12:16:45 GMT -5
The teams mentioned are not of the ilk to dictate anything to Holy Cross. If we heed their mandates, then we are just as much pushovers in the athletics department as we are regarding the folks who folded and ditched the Crusader moniker. If we have to "bargain" with the likes of URI or UMASS, who are regional to Holy Cross anyway, then we have a problem on our own. I can see negotiating with the likes of the teams that GKS says will never play at the DCU Center anyway... but then perhaps that's the issue.
If the big programs' teams won't play us anywhere except for maybe their home courts across the country, and these small fish teams exert leverage on Holy Cross to force us to play in a quiet and echoing DCU Center, then I choose the first option: play the big fish anywhere, any time. If you are a small program and don't want to play at the Hart Center, then forget it. Nothing to be gained with these games. It can't be pandering to the Worcester crowd either-- give them a good show at the Hart-- and if they don't show up don't waste money trying to make it any easier.
This college has got a SERIOUS case of little brother syndrome lately: "Me too-- ooh ooh, me too! Please, mom look at me! Look down here!" and it's driving me up a wall.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Dec 10, 2018 12:22:31 GMT -5
I would like to see HC get involved with the MAC again starting next year (when we will have 3 guys from Michigan and 1 from Ilinois on the roster). They have come to the Hart in the past (Ohio, Western Michigan) and would provide good competition. Get rotating home and homes with Eastern and Central Michigan (be at home for one while playing the other on the road). For the road game, combine it with a guarantee game at Michigan or Michigan State (or get Illinois and Northern Ilinois involved with the same strategy). Heck, ask some of the lower level Missouri Valley schools.....what's to lose?
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Dec 10, 2018 12:24:30 GMT -5
And at some point we should do the right thing and give Jacob Grandison's dad a break and play a game in Northern California (sort of a reverse frequent flyer kind of reward for him).
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Post by WorcesterGray on Dec 10, 2018 12:44:09 GMT -5
I would like to see HC get involved with the MAC again starting next year (when we will have 3 guys from Michigan and 1 from Ilinois on the roster). They have come to the Hart in the past (Ohio, Western Michigan) and would provide good competition. Get rotating home and homes with Eastern and Central Michigan (be at home for one while playing the other on the road). For the road game, combine it with a guarantee game at Michigan or Michigan State (or get Illinois and Northern Ilinois involved with the same strategy). Heck, ask some of the lower level Missouri Valley schools.....what's to lose? An excellent idea. Btw, Sagarin ranked the MAC West 11th and the MAC East 15th last year - in the same company as the MVC (9th), A10 (10th), West Coast (12th), C-USA (13th) and Colonial (14th).
Richmond played at Sojka a couple years ago. Establish a winning program, and good teams will come to the Hart.
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Post by gerry on Dec 10, 2018 12:48:08 GMT -5
Holy Cross had a home and home series with USF (San Francisco, not South Florida) several years back. It would be good to see another home and home set up with them. They could add a game with St. Mary's or Santa Clara while they are out there. I believe Harvard played at USF and St. Mary's this year. Not sure if that was a one time thing, or if those teams will be visiting Cambridge next season. Also, with the Canisius game being on the road next season, it would be nice to see if a series could be set up with St Bonaventure starting next year.
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Post by gerry on Dec 10, 2018 12:53:07 GMT -5
Also, Fordham played a road game the other day at Maine of all places. They proceeded to lose, giving the Black Bears their first win of the season. So they are willing to play a game on the road in the middle of nowhere against one of the worst D1 teams in the nation, and will not play a longtime rival that is a 3 hour bus ride away?
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Post by rf1 on Dec 10, 2018 12:53:52 GMT -5
Holy Cross had a home and home series with USF (San Francisco, not South Florida) several years back. It would be good to see another home and home set up with them. They could add a game with St. Mary's or Santa Clara while they are out there. I believe Harvard played at USF and St. Mary's this year. Not sure if that was a one time thing, or if those teams will be visiting Cambridge next season. Also, with the Canisius game being on the road next season, it would be nice to see if a series could be set up with St Bonaventure starting next year.
St Bonaventure is playing at perennial NCAA tourney team Vermont this season. It is part of a three game series contract. One game in Rochester-NY where SBU plays an annual game, one game at UVM in Burlington-VT, and one game at SBU in Olean-NY.
The A-10 schools that play in small gyms might possibly agree to games at the Hart. These teams would include Fordham, SBU, LaSalle, St. Joe's, GW, and Duquesne. Worth noting however that even with all the history and connections with Fordham, the Bronx Rams don't seem to want to play at Holy Cross in men's hoops.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 10, 2018 12:58:50 GMT -5
Also, Fordham played a road game the other day at Maine of all places. They proceeded to lose, giving the Black Bears their first win of the season. So they are willing to play a game on the road in the middle of nowhere against one of the worst D1 teams in the nation, and will not play a longtime rival that is a 3 hour bus ride away? ...because they might lose? (I doubt they expected to lose at Maine.)
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Post by Ray on Dec 10, 2018 12:59:01 GMT -5
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Post by joe on Dec 10, 2018 13:04:00 GMT -5
DCU is Holy Cross’ home gym if we can get into the A10 in hoops and HE for hockey. This really should be the goal if we want to be a real D1 mid major now that the ship has sailed on the Hart Center when it was basically ignored as part of the building of the Luth.
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