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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 14, 2018 9:17:12 GMT -5
The destination surprises me. Supposedly his big claim to fame was fundraising. I would think that would be a lesser deal at a service academy. If they want a major project like Luth, it isn't done by private donations, they just lobby Congress.Not intended as a slam on Nate Pine, but the big swing from part time head coaches to almost all full team head coaches was a Dick Regan thing Tom, the truth is actually very much the opposite. The academies try to raise funds as much as they can. There's always going to be some reliance on federal funds, but the more they can raise privately, the better. Something that gets lost in all the talk of government shutdowns is that it grounds the athletic teams at the academies and furloughs employees. Fundraising helps with the possibility that that doesn't happen to the student-athletes the next time a shutdown comes around... unfortunately for which the sabers rattle all too frequently. See: navysports.com/sports/2018/5/23/ot-what-is-naaa-html.aspxwww.usatoday.com/story/sports/2017/11/08/secret-services-hidden-sports-finances-army-navy-and-air-force/820114001/The AFA is at a financial disadvantage as it does not have the cash cow known as the Army Navy game. .
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Post by JRGNYR on Dec 14, 2018 9:24:04 GMT -5
Thanks PP. Was very much aware of the NAAA, and had heard Army was looking to set up something similar. Based on that USAT article, they have. It helps level the playing field for them, so to speak.
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Post by sader81 on Dec 14, 2018 9:34:41 GMT -5
I celebrated my wedding anniversary with a trip to Colorado last year. Spent a few hours taking a tour of the academy. It pales in comparison to West Point and Annapolis. While they have a nice football facility on campus and a stunningly beautiful chapel, the rest of the facility is steel and concrete with very little character when compared with its much older brother academies on the east coast. The place is only over 50 years old, and Nate will have a big job ahead with fundraising.
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Post by HC92 on Dec 14, 2018 10:01:38 GMT -5
Like most, I think Pine did some very good things while at HC and was lacking in other areas. Wish him and his wife well. Definitely not irreplaceable. Onward and upward.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 14, 2018 10:02:59 GMT -5
Guy was a lot of sizzle imo....time for Lockbaum AD era to begin. Why Lockbaum? I was not aware that he had been an AD at another school or had any experience as an athletics administrator. LoveHC Do you really think that this is a job that a smart, successful person wouldn't be able figure out without any prior experience working in a college athletic department? Is someone who has experience in fundraising roles in an athletic department but no athletic experience or acumen actually a better candidate than a Heisman trophy finalist who has been very successful in business and is closely tied with the school? How is Notre Dame doing under Jack Swarbrick? If HC wanted to engage the local community, having an AD like Gordie would be a MASSIVE upgrade.
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Post by purplehaze on Dec 14, 2018 10:14:15 GMT -5
We should be searching for a professional in the field at this time - AD jobs have changed and they are not easy with all the compliance and management of 27 sports. Gordie would be perfect as an asst AD going on the road to do the fundraising and in a general support role.
I think Nate was always looking for the 'next job' shortly after arriving and this is an opportunity to hire the right guy to get the W's & L's in order, something that Nate fell woefully short on.
I'd be very interested if they have an exit interview with Nate and get some of his honest opinions on how the school can improve the results on the fields and courts. We desperately need a coherent strategy very quickly
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Post by timholycross on Dec 14, 2018 10:17:23 GMT -5
....not that it necessarily would be Gordie Lockbaum, but the other strategy is to have your head guy be the glad-hander, fund-raiser person and the person making sure the department runs efficiently is your bean counter type.
Like Bobby Valentine who I would guess is doing something right at Sacred Heart (he's been there a lot longer than I figured he would be). And I doubt he knows very much about budgets, etc. (To clarify: no, I didn't mean HC should hire that particular person; just that type of person)
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 14, 2018 10:18:58 GMT -5
We should be searching for a professional in the field at this time - AD jobs have changed and they are not easy with all the compliance and management of 27 sports. Gordie would be perfect as an asst AD going on the road to do the fundraising and in a general support role. I think Nate was always looking for the 'next job' shortly after arriving and this is an opportunity to hire the right guy to get the W's & L's in order, something that Nate fell woefully short on. I'd be very interested if they have an exit interview with Nate and get some of his honest opinions on how the school can improve the results on the fields and courts. We desperately need a coherent strategy very quickly Agree with the second part, but why not reverse the first part by hiring an AD who actually understands sports and could move the needle in Ws & Ls and fan interest, and then have asst ADs deal with compliance?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 14, 2018 10:31:15 GMT -5
IIRC, the two finalists were the AD @ CCSU, and NP. Again IIRC, there were several on the old board who championed GL, but I never read an indication that he was interested. One can ask the question, 'where do you think HC athletics would be today if the school had selected the AD at CCSU?' _____________________________ And let's not be naive here. The former AD at the AFA was almost surely in NP's Rolodex, going back to when NP was at West Point. calbears.com/news/2018/4/8/athletics-news-cal-athletics-announcement.aspx
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Dec 14, 2018 10:41:11 GMT -5
There won't be many sitting D1 AD's interested in this job. The hire will come from among Brendan Sullivan, a D1 asst. AD, a sitting D2-3 AD, or someone with local and HC ties - such as Gordie or RPJ.
The lack of local ties/connections/knowledge on the current staff is an issue when it comes to engaging the very parochial Worc. community, and it's sorely needed for many reasons. A recognizable "name" would help in that area. For that reason alone - Gordie and RPJ should at least be asked if they are interested.
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Post by bison137 on Dec 14, 2018 10:42:16 GMT -5
Tom, the truth is actually very much the opposite. The academies try to raise funds as much as they can. There's always going to be some reliance on federal funds, but the more they can raise privately, the better. Something that gets lost in all the talk of government shutdowns is that it grounds the athletic teams at the academies and furloughs employees. Fundraising helps with the possibility that that doesn't happen to the student-athletes the next time a shutdown comes around... unfortunately for which the sabers rattle all too frequently. I stand corrected on the fundraising requirements at the academies. Didn't either Army or Navy cancel an away game during a recent shutdown? As I mentioned in an earlier post, all of the salaries at Navy and Army for the coaches and AD etc are funded privately through the Service Academy Athletic Associations. They also pay for most of the infrastructure and mostly run the athletic program. They rely on contributions, TV money, merchandise sales, etc. Thus contributions are a large part of their athletic budget.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 14, 2018 11:01:52 GMT -5
There won't be many sitting D1 AD's interested in this job. The hire will come from among Brendan Sullivan, a D1 asst. AD, a sitting D2-3 AD, or someone with local and HC ties - such as Gordie or RPJ. The lack of local ties/connections/knowledge on the current staff is an issue when it comes to engaging the very parochial Worc. community, and it's sorely needed for many reasons. A recognizable "name" would help in that area. For that reason alone - Gordie and RPJ should at least be asked if they are interested. Who is RPJ?
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Dec 14, 2018 11:04:39 GMT -5
There won't be many sitting D1 AD's interested in this job. The hire will come from among Brendan Sullivan, a D1 asst. AD, a sitting D2-3 AD, or someone with local and HC ties - such as Gordie or RPJ. The lack of local ties/connections/knowledge on the current staff is an issue when it comes to engaging the very parochial Worc. community, and it's sorely needed for many reasons. A recognizable "name" would help in that area. For that reason alone - Gordie and RPJ should at least be asked if they are interested. Who is RPJ? Ronnie Perry Jr.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 14, 2018 11:06:05 GMT -5
Thank you.
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Post by CHC8485 on Dec 14, 2018 11:09:04 GMT -5
Ron Perry, Jr. - who’s not really a junior, but makes the distinction from his dad easier.
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Post by CHC8485 on Dec 14, 2018 11:26:39 GMT -5
I'm not advocating it, was just explaining the RPJ commnet above.
That said, I imagine the criteria in his favor - successful student athlete, succesful business executive, deep Holy Cross connection.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 14, 2018 11:49:11 GMT -5
Does one have to be a former player to be a successful AD? Can an experienced professional sports administrator understand the needs of the various teams? Qualities of an individual's image, personality, intelligence, ambition, innovation and creativity as a person of ideas, the willingness and ability to put in long hours in hard work, communication skills both within the school & with the media to grow interest in the school, the proven ability to handle pressure, the ability to work successfully with others, management skills, understanding of the various needs of the different teams, understanding the and respect & willingness to abide by the high profile academic and spiritual nature of the school, and the ability, to raise tons of money figure to be very important parts among many other factors in choosing an AD. Based on the last two ADs that HC hired, the answer to your first question would be yes. But it's really more about actually knowing sports - which doesn't necessarily require playing a D1 sport in college. Neither of the last two ADs actually understood sports, and therefore were not capable of successfully managing coaches and making coaching hires -- two of the most important things for an Athletic Director.
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Pine out?
Dec 14, 2018 12:09:03 GMT -5
via mobile
mm67 likes this
Post by bfoley82 on Dec 14, 2018 12:09:03 GMT -5
There won't be many sitting D1 AD's interested in this job. The hire will come from among Brendan Sullivan, a D1 asst. AD, a sitting D2-3 AD, or someone with local and HC ties - such as Gordie or RPJ. The lack of local ties/connections/knowledge on the current staff is an issue when it comes to engaging the very parochial Worc. community, and it's sorely needed for many reasons. A recognizable "name" would help in that area. For that reason alone - Gordie and RPJ should at least be asked if they are interested. Nick Smith is on the Holy Cross staff and was the AD at Assumption where he turned around that department. I was always impressed with his work when I was on that side of town.
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Post by alum on Dec 14, 2018 12:11:24 GMT -5
Sad to hear, but I imagine there will be folks who will say it took too long. (other possible comments are listed below after each point) If this happens, I imagine there will be a "national Search" (comment: and we will hear that questioned - not done soon enough, not really "national"). We will want someone who can fundraise (comment: either not needed any more or not doing a good enough job). We want someone who will hire coaches who are winners and will build winning teams at HC (comment: it is taking too long, or they are not experienced enough, or they are too old/young) and who can recruit (comment: no matter who they recruit it will be criticized on many levels). We will also hear names thrown out here on CROSSPORTS who will not apply or would not be seriously in the running - then hear down the road how they would have been a much better pick. Let the "fun" begin. How long until I see the name of a two time Heisman finalist appear on this thread? Apparently, it only took 4 hours until Gordie's name was floated and a little longer for Ronnie, Jr. to be thrown in as well. FUN.
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Post by Tom on Dec 14, 2018 12:49:31 GMT -5
The lack of local ties/connections/knowledge on the current staff is an issue when it comes to engaging the very parochial Worc. community, and it's sorely needed for many reasons. A recognizable "name" would help in that area. For that reason alone - Gordie and RPJ should at least be asked if they are interested. Kind of a background person - and I'm not advocating the hire, but one of the three senior associate AD's was born in Worcester County, graduated from HC and went straight into the athletic office. Not a total lack of local ties, but not utilized as such. Although in the misogynistic world of sports, the fact that she's a she makes engaging the sporting community much harder
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Post by Tom on Dec 14, 2018 13:51:43 GMT -5
Do we want someone who is inbred, namely whose sports administrative experience has been solely at HC? Are there any problems/dangers in hiring a person from within who has only served in that capacity at HC? LoveHC I know nothing of Ms Shea's qualifications to say she would or would not be a good hire. She is somebody with Worcester ties/connections who understands HC having worked for Perry Sr, Regan, and Pine. Perhaps unfairly, I was citing her as someone who had the local and HC ties that many posters are asking for, and at the same time someone that zero posters would consider a strong candidate. There are multiple things to look at here, and we don't want to tunnel vision on any of them
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Post by crusader12 on Dec 14, 2018 13:55:53 GMT -5
Do we want someone who is inbred, namely whose sports administrative experience has been solely at HC? Are there any problems/dangers in hiring a person from within who has only served in that capacity at HC? LoveHC I know nothing of Ms Shea's qualifications to say she would or would not be a good hire. She is somebody with Worcester ties/connections who understands HC having worked for Perry Sr, Regan, and Pine. Perhaps unfairly, I was citing her as someone who had the local and HC ties that many posters are asking for, and at the same time someone that zero posters would consider a strong candidate. There are multiple things to look at here, and we don't want to tunnel vision on any of them NO.
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Post by hc87 on Dec 14, 2018 14:36:36 GMT -5
I guess I'm of the belief that Pine did a good job in modernizing, upgrading etc the dept. but he was more of a "branding/marketing guy" when there really isn't/wasn't much to show off. A "name" (#17 or #15) could take what he did and take our athletic teams to greater success, more support etc
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Post by purplehaze on Dec 14, 2018 15:48:37 GMT -5
From the Col Springs newspaper: Nathan Pine will be Air Force’s first athletic director without military experience. That won’t be the last first Pine experiences after taking the revamped position at the academy.
Pine comes in not as a government employee, as each of his predecessors were, but reporting to the Air Force Athletic Association Corp. This change will permit Pine to earn beyond government scale, to directly raise funds and to shed some of the responsibilities of directly overseeing the physical education department that had come with the position.
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 14, 2018 18:41:50 GMT -5
I will be greatly surprised, if not shocked if Gordie is interested in the AD position and I am more than confident he would not want an assistant AD position to be the glad hander/fund raiser. He is very successful and well established at what he does and I suspect it'd be a pay cut. He seems to enjoy supporting Holy Cross in a quieter fashion and in the background. Of course, he could surprise me.
Ron Perry the younger would make more sense to me. Almost as visible as Gordie and see him at the Hart on occasion. And there is the father connection.
I do hope that who're gets the position puts an emphasis on winning, especially in the most visible sports: football, basketball, hockey and baseball. If that means a de-emphasis on the others, that's OK by me. We aren't doing especially well in any sports but since I was never around the area when the "Notre Dame Fighting Irish, Holy Cross Winning Irish" was popular, it'd be nice to have them back and mean it. Tired of the (figurative) participation trophies.
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