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Post by purplehaze on Jan 4, 2019 10:46:46 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong, guys - I hope this program recovers, and quickly ! But I was thinking that we seem to play better on the road in recent years. So I looked at it and indeed our league record at the Hart is troubling 2016-17: 3-7 (including playoff loss) 2017-18: 2-7
with yesterday's loss, we've lost 8 of our last 9 home games and 10 of our last 12, going back to 16-17. How do you figure ?
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Post by WCHC Sports on Jan 4, 2019 10:53:00 GMT -5
The answer lies in what you should rename this post to: "NO PEOPLE AT THE HART."
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 4, 2019 10:58:05 GMT -5
Since our last NCAA Tournament appearance in 2007, Gibbons has gone 158-186 and 88-86 in the PL.
You wonder if one of the first orders of business of the new AD will be to make a change to women's basketball and men's ice hockey? It certainly would be quite the splash to try and push out Gibbons, who has been the head coach for nearly 35 years, but a change is warranted.
Do Gibbons and Fran O'Hanlon have the same agent?
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coachrt
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 93
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Post by coachrt on Jan 4, 2019 13:05:56 GMT -5
A couple of quick thoughts:
1) Lets not proclaim the season over just yet. Yes its a bad loss but let the conference season play out. 2) For those that comment the OOC schedule was soft. Well it was made in consultation with the administration so they know what they are doing tryng to get the program solid again. It wasn't just BG scheduling cupcakes to save his job. 3) Here is something to ponder: Clark men's job is open. BG is a Clark grad. Is it possible BG goes to clark. Might be good for him to go somewhere and start fresh and get re-energized. I think moving from D1 women to D3 men is not totally unrealistic. Its not like Paul Phillips was lighting the world on fire at Clark. I know the seat is warm and he's feeling the pressure this year so maybe if I were him I'd explore opportunities.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 4, 2019 13:32:06 GMT -5
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coachrt
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 93
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Post by coachrt on Jan 4, 2019 14:07:35 GMT -5
Yes most of the time the coaches can make their own schedule but administration approves it. If BG moves on he still needs to work and most likely needs to stay within athletics at this pont. There is also a very attractice AD position at St Johns HS in Shrewsbury that I could see him applying for.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 4, 2019 15:22:03 GMT -5
Bill Gibbons is a favorite son of Worcester and has done so much for Holy Cross women's basketball. He is still a relatively young man and I wish him nothing but the best but his time as head coach at Holy Cross seems to have gone past its expiration date. I would like nothing better for him than to move on to some other challenge where he can excel again. Give him his gold watch and a big party and a hardy farewell.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jan 4, 2019 15:23:46 GMT -5
As I and others have noted, the OOC schedule for the past two seasons has been soft. Last year, the feeling was the schedule was set up to ensure CBG got his milestone victory and with that achieved, he could move on. This year my sense is that the OOC schedule is designed to ensure at least a ,500 season, overall.
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Post by lou on Jan 4, 2019 16:21:10 GMT -5
Last time I checked Gibbons does not have tenure. He's coaching with a likely two time POY, he should be winning games. We finally figured it out on the men's side, let's also do it for the women.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jan 4, 2019 16:56:40 GMT -5
Bill Gibbons is a favorite son of Worcester and has done so much for Holy Cross women's basketball. He is still a relatively young man and I wish him nothing but the best but his time as head coach at Holy Cross seems to have gone past its expiration date. I would like nothing better for him than to move on to some other challenge where he can excel again. Give him his gold watch and a big party and a hardy farewell. Here's the thing. He's got years to go until he can collect Social Security. He has no other job options. Nobody is going to fire a coach with 600 wins unless he's a psychopath like Bobby Knight - which Gibbons isn't.
Those wanting him gone sooner rather than later might want to start a GoFundMe page.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 4, 2019 17:32:13 GMT -5
WG, coachrt gave two possibilities and there are probably many more that we can't even think of. I'm not about to contribute to a GoFundMe for him or anyone else . . . . no one helped me towards my retirement! But I was probably BG's age, or thereabouts, when I changed jobs within my own field of expertise. He can too. He has a track record of success. Somewhere else might like what he has to offer.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jan 4, 2019 17:35:23 GMT -5
I'm not about to contribute to a GoFundMe for him or anyone else . . . . no one helped me towards my retirement! Obviously, I was kidding. But those who think he's going to get pushed out are being unrealistic. Women's basketball doesn't matter that much here any more.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 4, 2019 17:42:47 GMT -5
I wasn't thinking him being pushed out so much as him being to proud to be R.I.P. (retired in place) and looking for a fresh challenge. Heck, look at Calhoun! I know, I know. He retired and this new gig is just for grins and giggles for him. Maybe his pal Geno needs an associate head coach that'd pay more than what he makes at HC?
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Post by bison137 on Jan 4, 2019 19:50:59 GMT -5
I wasn't thinking him being pushed out so much as him being to proud to be R.I.P. (retired in place) and looking for a fresh challenge. Heck, look at Calhoun! I know, I know. He retired and this new gig is just for grins and giggles for him. Maybe his pal Geno needs an associate head coach that'd pay more than what he makes at HC? I know you're not serious, but Geno's associate head coach, Chris Dailey, makes a lot more than BG - and she has been with Geno for well over 30 years. She isn't going anywhere. The #2, Shea Ralph, likely makes more than BG as well, and she is unlikely to leave. And BG wouldn't qualify as UConn's #3. So that might leave manager of basketball ops available for him.
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Jan 5, 2019 7:12:38 GMT -5
What are the salaries of the men's and women's basketball coaches? Is this public info? I assume they also run summer basketball camps at HC which are also big money makers.
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Post by timholycross on Jan 5, 2019 9:08:08 GMT -5
Maybe because of his tenure he gets a mulligan because there are no useful (one due to injury and one due to ability) seniors on the team (yes, I know that's as much his fault as anything) .
If the future does not look brighter by the time the season ends (that is, those that watch them can clearly see the team is improving), I think he should go.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 5, 2019 9:54:40 GMT -5
Yes, the salaries are "public" in the sense that HC is a non-profit and required to report to the feds the salaries of "officers, directors, trustees, key employees and highest compensated employees" on federal form 990 that is always 2 year's past (allowing for putting the report together and making it available).
In 2016, Carmody's base salary was under $300K, slightly above in total compensation. Milan Brown's going away package was $521K - $151K salary and $353K "other compensation (presumably buy-out of contract).
Bill Gibbons apparently was not a "highest compensated employee" and not listed though I believe he might have been in prior years. Would be surprised if he makes $200K despite his long tenure.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 5, 2019 10:11:21 GMT -5
BG was listed on the 2015 federal 990 for Holy Cross:
Base salary $182,518, with retirement and other deferred comp and other non-taxable benefits, total comp was $261,175 compared to Milan's total comp of $421,340.
P.S. I would not normally report this kind of stuff except it is public information that anyone can look up. All I am doing is saving posters the time of looking it up themselves.
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 5, 2019 11:22:52 GMT -5
Andy Sachs was making $66,000 as HC at Salisbury University and given Three months severance when he was let go because he was an employee at will, according to news reports. Quite a difference and Andy led his team to the NCAA two of his three years, and the team is near the top of D-3 now with his players.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 5, 2019 13:00:55 GMT -5
Unless you are in a power conference (or for women, Geno), college coaches are not super rich people. Comfortable but not rich.
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 5, 2019 13:02:49 GMT -5
Comfortable is not a bad thing...especially when you are getting paid for doing something you love.
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Post by purplehaze on Jan 5, 2019 13:05:12 GMT -5
College coaches are not normally retained when there is a ten year downward trend in performance. He’s not a professor with tenure, but it seems BG is being treated that way and with a hefty salary. No wonder he’s not looking at other jobs. What a deal !
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 5, 2019 14:26:40 GMT -5
One theory is PL WBB caught up with HC since 2007. I wonder what Bison's thoughts are? According to SOV's stats, it was the rest of the WBB world that caught up with HC. Since the last NCAA appearance in 2007, we've held our own in the PL at 88-86, but gotten pushed around OOC at 70-100. From memory, the good pre-2008 HC teams were successful against non power conference regional teams, as we were this season, so this could still be the turn around year.
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Post by timholycross on Jan 6, 2019 9:42:35 GMT -5
I think the decline went back to HC's transition to the PL and the phasing out of scholarships. Kept doing well in the PL in the 90s but the OOC games and NCAA appearances were, to coin HC87, a disastah.
When the scholarships came back, the assumption was the competitiveness of the program vs outsiders would return as well. Did not, and in fact the PL has been no day at the beach either. No one who remember the program from a generation ago are too happy with 88-86.
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