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Post by sader1970 on Oct 19, 2021 10:51:11 GMT -5
I'm going to start a petition to bring back Sarasota and HC70. Who's with me?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 19, 2021 11:28:48 GMT -5
Oh, those were the days--with those two guys weighing in on the issues of the day. It's too bad HC70 left our community before he could report on "trucks rolling up the hill".....
I wonder if they still visit this message board on occasion???
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Post by WCHC Sports on Oct 19, 2021 11:50:00 GMT -5
I've run into Sarasota on Twitter, so I know he's still paying attention.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Oct 19, 2021 11:51:35 GMT -5
I encourage you to listen to Boston sports radio to hear people complain about Bill Belichick’s coaching style now that the Pats are struggling. Fans of any team that is losing are going to complain about the coach. I don’t know or care what’s going on at Lehigh. All I know is that TG did a better job at HC than people seem to want to give him credit for. He’s a bad coach Lazy and dumb take. Gilmore inherited a Holy Cross program whose previous head coach was going through a health crisis, had one winning record and averaged 3.4 wins in eight seasons, and a record of 1-11 in his final season. Gilmore turned HC around to the tune of a winning record in year two and then seven consecutive winning seasons, averaging 6.4 wins (89% improvement from previous coach) over that stretch. That is not the makings of a "bad coach."
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ignatius
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 122
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Post by ignatius on Oct 19, 2021 11:56:26 GMT -5
Lazy and dumb take. Gilmore inherited a Holy Cross program whose previous head coach was going through a health crisis, had one winning record and averaged 3.4 wins in eight seasons, and a record of 1-11 in his final season. Gilmore turned HC around to the tune of a winning record in year two and then seven consecutive winning seasons, averaging 6.4 wins (89% improvement from previous coach) over that stretch. That is not the makings of a "bad coach." Another white knight for TG! How about this, I was there, underneath a helmet, when then transition from DA to TG took place. If you can say the same, please say as much.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Oct 19, 2021 12:07:36 GMT -5
Lazy and dumb take. Gilmore inherited a Holy Cross program whose previous head coach was going through a health crisis, had one winning record and averaged 3.4 wins in eight seasons, and a record of 1-11 in his final season. Gilmore turned HC around to the tune of a winning record in year two and then seven consecutive winning seasons, averaging 6.4 wins (89% improvement from previous coach) over that stretch. That is not the makings of a "bad coach." Another white knight for TG! How about this, I was there, underneath a helmet, when then transition from DA to TG took place. If you can say the same, please say as much. How do you explain the immediate win / loss improvement going from DA to TG then? You may not have liked him or his style, but he did produce immediate results. From what I heard, he pretty much ran a bunch of guys off the team early on. It probably was a major culture shock going from one head coach who, very tragically, was severely limited in his final year, to a coach that instituted morning runs, breakfast sign in, study hall, etc.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Oct 19, 2021 12:18:53 GMT -5
Lazy and dumb take. Gilmore inherited a Holy Cross program whose previous head coach was going through a health crisis, had one winning record and averaged 3.4 wins in eight seasons, and a record of 1-11 in his final season. Gilmore turned HC around to the tune of a winning record in year two and then seven consecutive winning seasons, averaging 6.4 wins (89% improvement from previous coach) over that stretch. That is not the makings of a "bad coach." Another white knight for TG! How about this, I was there, underneath a helmet, when then transition from DA to TG took place. If you can say the same, please say as much. You didn't like TG. I can produce another former player who liked playing for TG. What do we do then? Put your helmet back on for an Oklahoma drill to see who's right about him? Dave Clawson has 21 years of D1 head coaching experience, and hired and promoted TG at Wake Forest. Are you claiming that you know more about coaching than him? ----- The fact that you don't like TG does not make him a "bad coach." End.
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Post by dharry13 on Oct 19, 2021 12:21:22 GMT -5
I hear both points. I'll always defer to the guy that played for him, so to Ignatius' points - they are well taken.
That said - it's never easy to transition from one coach to the next. As an example - I played for Duff for 2 years and then for Vaas for 2 years. I can without a doubt tell you I didn't enjoy my time under Vaas and thought he was a poor coach on a number of different levels.
But - regarding TG. He did produce results over an extended period of time. Not easy to do in an era without scholarships. Vaas just wanted to blame everyone else for the lack of direction after Duff. No - guys just wanted to play for Duff and not Vaas - but I digress.
I think TG's time could be looked upon favorably, but those classes in a transition may not have liked his style - and I certainly get that.
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ignatius
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 122
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Post by ignatius on Oct 19, 2021 12:31:39 GMT -5
Another white knight for TG! How about this, I was there, underneath a helmet, when then transition from DA to TG took place. If you can say the same, please say as much. How do you explain the immediate win / loss improvement going from DA to TG then? You may not have liked him or his style, but he did produce immediate results. From what I heard, he pretty much ran a bunch of guys off the team early on. It probably was a major culture shock going from one head coach who, very tragically, was severely limited in his final year, to a coach that instituted morning runs, breakfast sign in, study hall, etc. It was a culture shock for sure. You’re not wrong about that. He didn’t run off as many as you may think though. How do I explain the immediate W/L improvement? I don’t know, maybe it’s because 1-11 was the baseline when he came into the fold. It’s not difficult to improve on that. And as much as you may think you know about the end of DA’s tenure, it was worse than you think. It was simply tragic. I guess Im just surprised by the defense of TG given how things ended and how his players felt about him during that period. Do you think the decision to release him after the Yale game was made in a vacuum? No, current players were consulted. Yes, he delivered a title in 2009. That’s about it. This board is clearly populated by folks with a different impression of TG. I’m not sure how he pulled the wool, but I will stand down for now. History is repeating itself though in Bethlehem. You cannot deny that.
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ignatius
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 122
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Post by ignatius on Oct 19, 2021 12:35:24 GMT -5
Another white knight for TG! How about this, I was there, underneath a helmet, when then transition from DA to TG took place. If you can say the same, please say as much. You didn't like TG. I can produce another former player who liked playing for TG. What do we do then? Put your helmet back on for an Oklahoma drill to see who's right about him? Dave Clawson has 21 years of D1 head coaching experience, and hired and promoted TG at Wake Forest. Are you claiming that you know more about coaching than him? ----- The fact that you don't like TG does not make him a "bad coach." End. What did Dave Clawson do? Did he make TG a coordinator? A position coach? How about none of the above. He got a token role as consigliere.
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ignatius
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 122
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Post by ignatius on Oct 19, 2021 12:38:24 GMT -5
Another white knight for TG! How about this, I was there, underneath a helmet, when then transition from DA to TG took place. If you can say the same, please say as much. You didn't like TG. I can produce another former player who liked playing for TG. What do we do then? Put your helmet back on for an Oklahoma drill to see who's right about him? Dave Clawson has 21 years of D1 head coaching experience, and hired and promoted TG at Wake Forest. Are you claiming that you know more about coaching than him? ----- The fact that you don't like TG does not make him a "bad coach." End. You can produce a player? Then do it. I’m the only one here as far as I can tell.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Oct 19, 2021 12:39:26 GMT -5
How do you explain the immediate win / loss improvement going from DA to TG then? You may not have liked him or his style, but he did produce immediate results. From what I heard, he pretty much ran a bunch of guys off the team early on. It probably was a major culture shock going from one head coach who, very tragically, was severely limited in his final year, to a coach that instituted morning runs, breakfast sign in, study hall, etc. It was a culture shock for sure. You’re not wrong about that. He didn’t run off as many as you may think though. How do I explain the immediate W/L improvement? I don’t know, maybe it’s because 1-11 was the baseline when he came into the fold. It’s not difficult to improve on that. The program was among the worst in not just the PL, but the country for about a decade-long stretch. From 1993-2003, HC was below .500 for ten of 11 years. Then, TG comes in and -- after his maiden year -- goes above .500 for seven straight years. That's more than just a small improvement.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Oct 19, 2021 12:41:47 GMT -5
You didn't like TG. I can produce another former player who liked playing for TG. What do we do then? Put your helmet back on for an Oklahoma drill to see who's right about him? Dave Clawson has 21 years of D1 head coaching experience, and hired and promoted TG at Wake Forest. Are you claiming that you know more about coaching than him? ----- The fact that you don't like TG does not make him a "bad coach." End. What did Dave Clawson do? Did he make TG a coordinator? A position coach? How about none of the above. He got a token role as consigliere. OLB coach: godeacs.com/news/2018/9/23/wake-forest-football-announces-staff-changes
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ignatius
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 122
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Post by ignatius on Oct 19, 2021 12:44:35 GMT -5
Ah yes, hence the reference to his “promotion.”
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Post by dharry13 on Oct 19, 2021 12:57:26 GMT -5
A heck of a lot better than what HC has going on right now with recruiting. I know I know - I'm sure they have a plan. What that plan is - no one has a clue, but that's ok.
Back to TG post.
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ignatius
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 122
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Post by ignatius on Oct 19, 2021 12:59:24 GMT -5
The guys I met who played for TG do not post here. As I've previously stated, it was not a question of liking or not liking Tom - they respected him; felt they learned a lot from him both on the field and off; and that they were better people because of him. That's OK to not like him. It's probably OK to disagree how good a coach he was/is but as posted above, he took over from a seriously/terminally ill coach and turned the program around. My understanding is that he is trying to do the same at Lehigh. He will likely run out of time there. And while this won't sit well with some, I can tell you I had a personal discussion with the president of the College who told me after Dan had passed that his big regret was that he hadn't fired him a couple of years before and that he could not fire him once his illness became public. He felt he was not getting the job done even before he got sick. I've posted about this before and, frankly, it shocked me to hear it at the time. Precious few college head coaches stay until retirement. At some point they move on or, very frequently, get fired. Should Tom have been fired from Holy Cross? There are some who would say "absolutely." My response is that he probably should have been fired but would have preferred to see him be given until the end of the season. He's not a coach for every player for sure. The guys I know who played for him acknowledged that but they responded for him. But to say he's a bad coach in absolutist terms is, in absolutist terms, just wrong. He's looking to re-build a program and just yesterday, our Lehigh guest poster Richh posted: DJ Brown hasn't gotten the message that TG is a bad coach. A 5’9” RB? I’ll pass. Also, he’ll never play for TG.
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 19, 2021 13:09:57 GMT -5
Not my intention to throw dirt on any football coach living or dead.
I’ll delete my post but what I posted was 100% accurate.
Consider putting the brakes on maligning TG. You made your points.
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ignatius
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 122
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Post by ignatius on Oct 19, 2021 13:12:42 GMT -5
Not my intention to throw dirt on any football coach living or dead. I’ll delete my post but what I posted was 100% accurate. Consider putting the brakes on maligning TG. You made your points. Deal. I don’t have much more to say here. You should have never posted that though and you obviously do not know the Allen’s nor the extent of their circumstance.
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 19, 2021 13:16:54 GMT -5
I'm going to start a petition to bring back Sarasota and HC70. Who's with me? I was with you when Germany bombed Pearl Harbor.😂
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 19, 2021 13:21:17 GMT -5
Is Sota banned? I thought he was just inactive. Was actually wondering and hoping all was OK with his health.
Wishing you the best Sota if you're still reading the board.
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 19, 2021 13:22:56 GMT -5
Since we have as deal, do yourself a favor. I deleted my post but unless you delete your post quoting me, my comments remain on the thread.
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ignatius
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 122
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Post by ignatius on Oct 19, 2021 13:28:49 GMT -5
Since we have as deal, do yourself a favor. I deleted my post but unless you delete your post quoting me, my comments remain on the thread. Do myself a favor? Sure thing boss. It’s your unsavory words that require deletion, not mine.
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 19, 2021 13:38:59 GMT -5
Not my intention to throw dirt on any football coach living or dead. I’ll delete my post but what I posted was 100% accurate. Consider putting the brakes on maligning TG. You made your points. Deal. I don’t have much more to say here. You should have never posted that though and you obviously do not know the Allen’s nor the extent of their circumstance. We probably have covered TG well until perhaps the Lehigh game but I will add to your thoughts on Coach Allen. No one can take away from him what he did at BU when he had his full health. In no way was BU a football school, but when Coach Allen had the program humming and playing in the post season the whole campus got behind the team and the Boston Nightly News would have reports from practice and campus about the excitement. He chose to come back to HC, possibly because he got wind that BU might be considering dropping FB in the future but mostly because he loved HC.
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ignatius
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 122
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Post by ignatius on Oct 19, 2021 13:51:46 GMT -5
Deal. I don’t have much more to say here. You should have never posted that though and you obviously do not know the Allen’s nor the extent of their circumstance. We probably have covered TG well until perhaps the Lehigh game but I will add to your thoughts on Coach Allen. No one can take away from him what he did at BU when he had his full health. In no way was BU a football school, but when Coach Allen had the program humming and playing in the post season the whole campus got behind the team and the Boston Nightly News would have reports from practice and campus about the excitement. He chose to come back to HC, possibly because he got wind that BU might be considering dropping FB in the future but mostly because he loved HC. Good coach, bad coach, it can all be debated. What I will say though is that I never witnessed him offer anyone anything other than complete and absolute respect. He was a gentleman above all else.
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 19, 2021 13:53:00 GMT -5
In 1993 Dan Allen led Boston University to a 12-1 record. He was named the AFCA coach of the year, the Yankee Conference coach of the year, the Greater Boston Coach of the year, the New England Coach of the year and was the winner of the Eddie Robinson Reward.
"De mortuis nihil nisi bonum"
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