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Post by hcpride on Jan 20, 2019 11:21:36 GMT -5
Just noticed they've been posted ( www.holycross.edu/office-administration-finance/institutional-reports-and-public-resources ). Three categories of interest: Acceptance Rate: 2016-2017: 38.5%, 2017-2018: 39.6%, 2018-2019: 38.0% Enrolled Students in top 10% of HS (25% or less of students submit): 2016-2017: 61%, 2017-2018: 57.29%, 2018-2019: 58.3% ACT Composite (Approximately 25% of students submit): 2016-2017: 29.5, 2017-2018: 29.5, 2018-2019: 30(It is certainly true that acceptance rates are easily gamed, fewer and fewer students submit the marginally useful class rank, and ACT's are only submitted by about 25% [v about 45% SAT] in our test-score -optional institution.) Notwithstanding a billion caveats and qualifications (and mathematical shorthand on my part), I believe our ACT hitting 30 is very good.
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Post by crossbball13 on Jan 20, 2019 17:53:38 GMT -5
Nobody accepted off the waitlist.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 20, 2019 18:20:49 GMT -5
Really!? I would think that would be a first.
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Post by hcpride on Jan 20, 2019 18:27:28 GMT -5
Last 2 years, 0 kids off the wait list. 2016-2017 it was 14 kids. FWIW
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 20, 2019 20:22:29 GMT -5
This tells us everything we need to know
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Post by purplehaze on Jan 20, 2019 20:30:13 GMT -5
last year's yield (accepted students enrolling) was exceptionally high and the class of '22 numbers 835 students - I heard from a close source that they don't want this to happen again and they hope to keep the class of '23 in the 750 range. in the coming years total enrollment should not exceed 3000 (as it does now)
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 20, 2019 20:44:27 GMT -5
Just looked at an HC football booklet from 1954. In that year the enrollment was 1800. Imagine a D1 team with the HC schedule back then and only 1800 students. It boggles the mind.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 20, 2019 23:17:00 GMT -5
This tells us everything we need to know I don't mean this with any sense of confrontation at all. Please accept my question as a sincere effort to understand. What is the everything we need to know that these numbers tell us/? Could you take a minute to briefly explain what you meant? Thank you. LoveHC It has been my experience that different people will look at the same information, e.g. a data set, and see that it supports their pre-conception. In this case, those who believe that HC is in severe decline will discern from the data all manner of negative insights. At the other end of the spectrum, optimists will look at the data and draw positive conclusions. Of course, some times one of the ends of the spectrum is correct; more often the truth is in the middle.
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Post by crossbball13 on Jan 21, 2019 0:11:08 GMT -5
You’d think 1 or 2 kids with connections would get off the wait list. I guess yield really has been too high recently granting no exceptions. Both a good and bad thing I suppose.
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Post by hcpride on Jan 21, 2019 7:28:44 GMT -5
The ACT (and I realize some posters are not too familiar with the ACT) number derived from the Common Data Sets is interesting on a number of levels. Here is last year's number (ours is 30.0 this year) from some significant applicant - crossover schools schools: BC (Unknown % of enrollees) 32.0 Villanova (60% of enrollees) 31.5 HC (TSO, 29.8% of enrollees) 29.5 Fordham (49% of enrollees) 29.0 UMass Amherst (27% of enrollees) 28.5 Providence College (TSO, 24% of enrollees) 28.0 FWIW (Not significant applicant overlap schools) Colgate - will defeat in football next year- (64%) 32.0; Lafayette - often noted as having similar rankings to HC - (57%) 29.5; SUNY Stony Brook - our signature hoops win this year - (38%) 28.5; Yale - our signature football win this year - (57%)33.5; Georgetown - our wildest football comeback - (55%) 32.0. (No doubt that KY Crusader 75 is correct that folks can utilize the same athletic and academic (and etc.) stats to buttress or refute all manner of convictions. Folks might find this number confirms or contradicts [or is irrelevant to] their own impression of relative academic reputation.)
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 21, 2019 8:48:59 GMT -5
I don't mean this with any sense of confrontation at all. Please accept my question as a sincere effort to understand. What is the everything we need to know that these numbers tell us/? Could you take a minute to briefly explain what you meant? Thank you. LoveHC It has been my experience that different people will look at the same information, e.g. a data set, and see that it supports their pre-conception. In this case, those who believe that HC is in severe decline will discern from the data all manner of negative insights. At the other end of the spectrum, optimists will look at the data and draw positive conclusions. Of course, some times one of the ends of the spectrum is correct; more often the truth is in the middle. KY, Thanks for telling us "everything we needed to know" about data sets.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jan 21, 2019 8:58:53 GMT -5
The rollout of the CDS is in the early stage. Of the four PL schools that have released the 2018-19 CDS, the amount of financial aid awarded to athletes for 2018-19 is as follows:
Loyola $6.4M Lafayette $10.8M HC $12.2M Bucknell $12.6M (From the Title IX reports, Bucknell has been super-generous with fin aid for women.)
Nothing yet from Fordham, GU, Richmond, or Villanova
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 21, 2019 10:24:49 GMT -5
Do these ACT numbers come from (1) accepted applicants or (2) accepted applicants who chose to matriculate?
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 21, 2019 10:29:36 GMT -5
That is an important distinction, KY. Nice work there.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jan 21, 2019 10:40:24 GMT -5
Do these ACT numbers come from (1) accepted applicants or (2) accepted applicants who chose to matriculate? The CDS data should represent matriculating students who entered in the fall of 2018.
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Post by hcpride on Jan 21, 2019 10:48:03 GMT -5
Do these ACT numbers come from (1) accepted applicants or (2) accepted applicants who chose to matriculate? Enrollees. I tried to make that clear : BC (Unknown % of enrollees) 32.0 Villanova (60% of enrollees) 31.5 HC (TSO, 29.8% of enrollees) 29.5 Fordham (49% of enrollees) 29.0 UMass Amherst (27% of enrollees) 28.5 Providence College (TSO, 24% of enrollees) 28.0
Applicants and Accepted Applicants would be a different number - not available on CDS.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 21, 2019 11:31:34 GMT -5
Do these ACT numbers come from (1) accepted applicants or (2) accepted applicants who chose to matriculate? Enrollees. I tried to make that clear : BC (Unknown % of enrollees) 32.0 Villanova (60% of enrollees) 31.5 HC (TSO, 29.8% of enrollees) 29.5 Fordham (49% of enrollees) 29.0 UMass Amherst (27% of enrollees) 28.5 Providence College (TSO, 24% of enrollees) 28.0
Applicants and Accepted Applicants would be a different number - not available on CDS. I see that, but I would not put it past schools to list (A) percentage of enrollees who submit and (B) ACT score for all applicants I think I've mentioned before that I once worked with a guy who had worked in the admissions department at one of the "high academic" FBS schools. He said that his school absolutely cheated when reporting ACT & SAT scores and that he believed that all schools did so.
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Post by princetoncrusader on Jan 21, 2019 12:26:34 GMT -5
I find these ACT numbers very troubling, given that former "safety schools"--BC and Villanova--now report higher scores than HC. Also of note, i suspect that there is a self selection bias in the HC figures (kids who scored well on the PSAT or some similar exam will report their scores, while those who don't won't) given the relatively low percentage of reporters. Whether this is due to inferior financial aid packages, the low-key athletics program, the liberal arts curriculum or just bad marketing by the HC Admissions Office is a topic for another thread.
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Post by hcpride on Jan 21, 2019 14:04:24 GMT -5
I find these ACT numbers very troubling, given that former "safety schools"--BC and Villanova--now report higher scores than HC. Also of note, i suspect that there is a self selection bias in the HC figures (kids who scored well on the PSAT or some similar exam will report their scores, while those who don't won't) given the relatively low percentage of reporters. Whether this is due to inferior financial aid packages, the low-key athletics program, the liberal arts curriculum or just bad marketing by the HC Admissions Office is a topic for another thread. BC as a safety school for HC was true one or two generations ago and Villanova as a safety was true about a decade ago. Others might note scores are a bit tighter v other schools than they would think. Things change. And the reasons you give for this change make sense. There are probably more too. And certainly 'test score optional' is generally considered to have an inflationary effect on ACT/SAT averages.
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Post by hcpride on Jan 21, 2019 14:23:08 GMT -5
Enrollees. I tried to make that clear : BC (Unknown % of enrollees) 32.0 Villanova (60% of enrollees) 31.5 HC (TSO, 29.8% of enrollees) 29.5 Fordham (49% of enrollees) 29.0 UMass Amherst (27% of enrollees) 28.5 Providence College (TSO, 24% of enrollees) 28.0
Applicants and Accepted Applicants would be a different number - not available on CDS. I see that, but I would not put it past schools to list (A) percentage of enrollees who submit and (B) ACT score for all applicants I think I've mentioned before that I once worked with a guy who had worked in the admissions department at one of the "high academic" FBS schools. He said that his school absolutely cheated when reporting ACT & SAT scores and that he believed that all schools did so. I guess it is possible Holy Cross cheats on reporting ACT & SAT scores. I'd really prefer to think they do not.
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Post by crossbball13 on Jan 21, 2019 20:11:58 GMT -5
Doesn’t the south and west take the ACT more commonly while the northeast takes SAT more commonly? Might it be true that HC is stretching to admit a more national student body (something I’m wholeheartedly against — admit the best and brightest regardless of where they live)? My guess is the bulk (around 70-80%) of the ACT’s scores that HC reports for matriculated students are from out of region scholarship athletes. Take from that what you will. I’m also unsure why the topic of discussion regarding a Massachusetts school is its ACT scores. I practically know nobody who has even taken the exam and I’m an alum.
Imho if you don’t score at or around 75% level in SAT for HC, you shouldn’t report, especially if the other aspects of your application are disproportionately stronger. The myth that most of the students that don’t report score at or under the 25% band is simply untrue.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 22, 2019 15:29:14 GMT -5
A 29.5 ACT would be the 92nd percentile.
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Post by hc87 on Jan 23, 2019 1:20:12 GMT -5
The Big East really damaged Villanova's reputation huh?
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 24, 2019 12:32:34 GMT -5
Just looked at an HC football booklet from 1954. In that year the enrollment was 1800. Imagine a D1 team with the HC schedule back then and only 1800 students. It boggles the mind. But that's with 1800 men. In today's admissions that would translate to a school of about 4000 (1800 men, 2200 women), or about the size of Rice.
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Post by hcpride on Jan 24, 2019 12:46:15 GMT -5
Just looked at an HC football booklet from 1954. In that year the enrollment was 1800. Imagine a D1 team with the HC schedule back then and only 1800 students. It boggles the mind. But that's with 1800 men. In today's admissions that would translate to a school of about 4000 (1800 men, 2200 women), or about the size of Rice. It is impressive when a tiny public high school beats a large public high school because the players are drawn from the pool of attendees (theoretically they are not recruited). When there is recruitment, relative high school population (males or females or both) is not particularly important or impressive. Ditto for colleges. (Of course there can be questions of fiscal prudence given relative school size and tuition but that is another story.)
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