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Post by Chu Chu on Jun 10, 2019 12:07:59 GMT -5
I agree, mm67. I saw a sign this weekend at reunion proudly indicating the planned location, just up from Hogan.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jun 10, 2019 14:12:25 GMT -5
Funding for the PAC fortunately has not been lost in the shuffle. My understanding is that HC is close to moving forward with the construction green light. Additional funding is still needed, and hopefully will be raised within the next 90 days, maybe even sooner. Time to buy a Mega Millions ticket.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jul 19, 2019 12:49:06 GMT -5
Groundbreaking for the PAC has not been shelved.
From recent conversations, less than 10 million dollars is needed to be raised for the green light to put the bulldozers in action. I believe the cost for the PAC is over 90 million.
After the most recent Holy Cross Fund report is released maybe we will get an updated time line.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jul 19, 2019 13:41:57 GMT -5
This project would be a tremendous positive for Holy Cross, in my opinion. Whether one likes the arts or not I believe it is a fact that many people do and the new center would help HC catch up with some schools and pass others
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Post by rgs318 on Jul 19, 2019 13:46:40 GMT -5
Three local all male parochial high schools, all athletic powerhouses, now have performing arts in their curriculum and one is building a performing arts studio (mirrored wall and all). The plays and music programs have been found to add appeal to each school's recruiting.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 19, 2019 15:49:25 GMT -5
I believe the estimated cost is $95 million. The college applies a funding threshold that defers a construction start until about two thirds of the total building cost is raised. As of several months ago, HC needed to raise $4.5 million more to start construction, and was publicly optimistic that this amount would soon be raised.
The large, expensive new parking lot at the top of the hill was built specifically in anticipation of the CAC's construction.
The Upper Campus Road, is presently closed and is being rebuilt and re-aligned This reconstruction extends all the way to Hogan and to the NW corner of the CAC site. The contractor is installing two different pipelines under the Upper Campus Road, one clearly is for stormwater runoff that flows into storm drains and a stormwater sewer. The other is either for potable water or natural gas, I tend to think the latter.
Looking at the scale of the re-construction, I suspect the Upper Campus Road will not re-open until next year.
I further suspect that groundbreaking for the CAC will not occur until construction of The Jo is further along, given the disruptive effect on traffic, parking, and access (particularly to Hogan) if both projects were being built simultaneously, rather than phased. I had not expected the roadwork to be this extensive and to extend to Hogan.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 19, 2019 18:09:52 GMT -5
Even though it is not my money, this much spending makes me nervous. I do like the discipline of requiring two thirds of the funds in hand before breaking ground.
A college with the existing amount of indoor square footage HC has could have a strong arts curriculum without a showplace new building - which perhaps it does. But it would be harder to prove it.
I trust TPTB are not turning the campus into an asphalt jungle, as I look forward to seeing the new creation take shape.
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Post by CHC8485 on Jul 19, 2019 20:07:39 GMT -5
I believe the estimated cost is $95 million. The college applies a funding threshold that defers a construction start until about two thirds of the total building cost is raised. As of several months ago, HC needed to raise $4.5 million more to start construction, and was publicly optimistic that this amount would soon be raised. The large, expensive new parking lot at the top of the hill was built specifically in anticipation of the CAC's construction. The Upper Campus Road, is presently closed and is being rebuilt and re-aligned This reconstruction extends all the way to Hogan and to the NW corner of the CAC site. The contractor is installing two different pipelines under the Upper Campus Road, one clearly is for stormwater runoff that flows into storm drains and a stormwater sewer. The other is either for potable water or natural gas, I tend to think the latter. Looking at the scale of the re-construction, I suspect the Upper Campus Road will not re-open until next year. I further suspect that groundbreaking for the CAC will not occur until construction of The Jo is further along, given the disruptive effect on traffic, parking, and access (particularly to Hogan) if both projects were being built simultaneously, rather than phased. I had not expected the roadwork to be this extensive and to extend to Hogan. Let me start off by saying I agree that it is needed and I am supportive of the project but ... Part of the issue getting this started IMO is that the cost keeps escalating. Seriously escalating. When Diller Scofidio + Renfro was selected as the designer for the PAC in 2015, 2 years after Neil Prior made his $25 million gift in February 2013 the estimated cost was $60 million. news.holycross.edu/blog/2015/01/15/diller-scofidio-renfro-selected-to-design-new-performing-arts-center-at-holy-cross/In July of 2017 that estimate was up to $92 million news.holycross.edu/blog/2017/07/28/holy-cross-announces-building-plans-for-new-center-for-arts-and-creativity/And now it's up to $107 million www.holycross.edu/becomemore/campaign-priorities/inspiring-creative-teaching-and-learning/arts-centerI don't know what could cause an original $60 million rough estimate project to escalate almost 80% over 4 or so years, but I can assure you, it is not creating a parking lot and re-aligning a road. |
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 19, 2019 20:40:58 GMT -5
On July 28, 2017, HC said the cost was $92 million.
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Post by gks on Jul 19, 2019 21:55:45 GMT -5
On July 28, 2017, HC said the cost was $92 million. In four years the cost went up $30 million? What are they building this thing out of? Sounds overbuilt to me. |
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jul 19, 2019 23:21:43 GMT -5
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Post by td128 on Jul 20, 2019 3:54:22 GMT -5
I applaud the Prior family for making the lead gift for this building and all those who are contributing to make it happen. The Arts bring a real vibrancy to a campus and generate real creative genius. I have to admit though that I am not a fan of the design of this building and think it has a chance if not a likelihood of looking like a white elephant in what will ultimately be viewed as a central part of our campus. Given the consistency in the architectural styles of the major buildings on campus I would have hoped that the same style with a bit of a twist could have and would have been maintained. If anybody has been to the Notre Dame Debartolo Arts Center you would know that the space there is truly world class while the architectural style is fully consistent with the campus as a whole. ND's facility opened in 2004 and is not quite twice the size (150,000 sf vs 84,000 sf) built for 60% of the cost ($64mm vs projected $107mm). I certainly do not know the construction industry but are we to believe that there has been a 250% rate of inflation in construction costs over a 15 year time period? This report covering a wide range of locations around the country indicates that non-residential construction costs have increased on average by 35% since January 2009: www.mortenson.com/cost-indexFor those interested in the Notre Dame facility, performingarts.nd.edu/venues/performingarts.nd.edu/our-story/ |
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Post by matunuck on Jul 20, 2019 7:50:41 GMT -5
Hogan has zero appeal to me and I never understood why that design was chosen given its location. Also be nice down the line to make exterior changes to the Easy Street dorms so they blend in more to the traditional part of the campus.
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Post by td128 on Jul 20, 2019 8:46:58 GMT -5
Holy Cross Integrated Science Complex: www.holycross.edu/celebrating-science/about-complexWith the design and construction of a new $64 million science complex, Holy Cross completed the most ambitious building project in its history. The construction of a new four-story building linked to the existing science and social science buildings (Beaven, O’Neil, and Swords halls) in 2009 was followed by the complete renovation of Haberlin Hall in 2010 and resulted in 142,000 gross square feet of new and renovated classroom, lecture, research and laboratory space.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jul 20, 2019 9:06:36 GMT -5
I find the proposed design to be hideous---it certainly will stand out from the rest of campus. It's possible to create a new building, that looks new, but complements the surrounding buildings: Smith Hall is a great example of that in my opinion. That's a good looking building that lloks like it belongs on the campus.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 20, 2019 9:36:12 GMT -5
A. Several comparisons as to cost.
Brooklyn College new Performing Arts Center
62,000 square feet Cost about $100 million (Brooklyn College is affected by NYC construction costs!)
Brown University Granoff Center for Creative Arts opened 2011 39,000 square feet Architect DS+R, same architect as for HC's Creative Arts Center Project cost $40 million, construction cost $27 million www.architectmagazine.com/design/buildings/perry-and-marty-granoff-center-for-the-creative-arts_oBrown University Performing Arts Center
94,500 square feet Project cost: Not released. Brown still raising money though construction has begun One major donor gave $20 million for naming rights to the lobby. This will be an expensive building, well north of HC's CAC www.browndailyherald.com/2019/02/13/university-unveils-design-new-performing-arts-center/www.brown.edu/news/2019-02-13/pac-designCosts went up significantly because much of the PAC was moved underground to save four historic houses that Brown initially planned to demolish. Brown owns well over 100 historic buildings. . www.golocalprov.com/news/new-brown-university-blasting-bedrock-at-site-of-new-performing-arts-centerB. HC's CACOriginal cost when announced in 2015 was $60 million. Cost when project was approved by city in 2018 was $92 million. Building size is 84,500 square feet Reasons for cost growth to $107 million a.) Increased cost of academic programming inside the CAC (e.g., visual media labs) and/or furnishings (would be unrelated to construction cost, but included in overall project cost). Construction permits for Luth costed construction at $72 million, over $20 million less than total project cost. b.) Trump's tariffs on certain materials (e,g.,specialty steel being used for the facade) c.) Labor costs (HC specifies a union contract) in a tight job market with the construction boom in Greater Boston d.) Contractor bid contingency because of complexity of construction. e.) Higher rate of inflation in certain markets for certain types of construction f. ) Design changes g.) Some of the above h.) None of the above Cultural buildings tend to cost a lot more than other buildings. Goes to the quality of the finishes.  This about-to-open 40,000 square foot expansion of a museum in Massachusetts (the building on the right) cost $125 million. |
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Post by hchoops on Jul 20, 2019 10:18:12 GMT -5
I find the proposed design to be hideous---it certainly will stand out from the rest of campus. It's possible to create a new building, that looks new, but complements the surrounding buildings: Smith Hall is a great example of that in my opinion. That's a good looking building that lloks like it belongs on the campus. If you think the proposed .PAC is hideous, have you seen the Luth ? i agree that the new PAC is not consistent with most of the architecture on campus, but the Luth clearly broke that mode already. From what I was told the “upper campus” is to be newer architecture. Thus the Luth set that tone. I believe the PAC is far more architecturally attractive than the Luth and to my mind complements the campus. |
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 20, 2019 13:27:26 GMT -5
Construction will be covered by fund raising (or does fund raising dry up once the two thirds of the cost is raised and ground is broken and donors are on to Cincinnati, er, the next campaign?) but the operating costs, upkeep and staffing will be covered by tuition and fees?
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jul 20, 2019 13:34:38 GMT -5
“Beauty is in the eye of The beholder.”
While DeBartolo would not fit into the architecture of Mt.St.James, the same would be said of the Center for the Arts and Creativity on the ND campus.
Having seen the DeBartolo in person, it is an attractive building in context to the Notre Dame Campus. While I am not a fan of using yellow brick for a building facade, the DeBartolo blends in well to the campus and presents a visually striking image at night when you enter the campus from the south.
With any campus project, consistency with the building facade is important with each new building. For example, HC is red brick, BC and Duke are Gothic, Stanford is red tile roofs. Visually each mode provides a memorable architectural experience.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 20, 2019 13:43:51 GMT -5
I applaud the Prior family for making the lead gift for this building and all those who are contributing to make it happen. The Arts bring a real vibrancy to a campus and generate real creative genius. I have to admit though that I am not a fan of the design of this building and think it has a chance if not a likelihood of looking like a white elephant in what will ultimately be viewed as a central part of our campus. Given the consistency in the architectural styles of the major buildings on campus I would have hoped that the same style with a bit of a twist could have and would have been maintained. If anybody has been to the Notre Dame Debartolo Arts Center you would know that the space there is truly world class while the architectural style is fully consistent with the campus as a whole. ND's facility opened in 2004 and is not quite twice the size (150,000 sf vs 84,000 sf) built for 60% of the cost ($64mm vs projected $107mm). I certainly do not know the construction industry but are we to believe that there has been a 250% rate of inflation in construction costs over a 15 year time period? This report covering a wide range of locations around the country indicates that non-residential construction costs have increased on average by 35% since January 2009: www.mortenson.com/cost-indexFor those interested in the Notre Dame facility, performingarts.nd.edu/venues/performingarts.nd.edu/our-story/ Agree with your points. I have the sense it started out as a performing arts center, quite doable within the lifespan of the fabulous leadership donor and then items from a campus wish list may have been added to supplement PP's excellent list of reasons the cost got over $100 million. Due to the feel of urbanization of the relatively compact campus, I wonder if smaller isn't better and get it built while the lead donor can enjoy the ribbon cutting? |
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 20, 2019 13:51:56 GMT -5
A. Several comparisons as to cost.
Brooklyn College new Performing Arts Center
62,000 square feet Cost about $100 million (Brooklyn College is affected by NYC construction costs!)
Brown University Granoff Center for Creative Arts opened 2011 39,000 square feet Architect DS+R, same architect as for HC's Creative Arts Center Project cost $40 million, construction cost $27 million www.architectmagazine.com/design/buildings/perry-and-marty-granoff-center-for-the-creative-arts_oBrown University Performing Arts Center
94,500 square feet Project cost: Not released. Brown still raising money though construction has begun One major donor gave $20 million for naming rights to the lobby. This will be an expensive building, well north of HC's CAC www.browndailyherald.com/2019/02/13/university-unveils-design-new-performing-arts-center/www.brown.edu/news/2019-02-13/pac-designCosts went up significantly because much of the PAC was moved underground to save four historic houses that Brown initially planned to demolish. Brown owns well over 100 historic buildings. . www.golocalprov.com/news/new-brown-university-blasting-bedrock-at-site-of-new-performing-arts-centerB. HC's CACOriginal cost when announced in 2015 was $60 million. Cost when project was approved by city in 2018 was $92 million. Building size is 84,500 square feet Reasons for cost growth to $107 million a.) Increased cost of academic programming inside the CAC (e.g., visual media labs) and/or furnishings (would be unrelated to construction cost, but included in overall project cost). Construction permits for Luth costed construction at $72 million, over $20 million less than total project cost. b.) Trump's tariffs on certain materials (e,g.,specialty steel being used for the facade) c.) Labor costs (HC specifies a union contract) in a tight job market with the construction boom in Greater Boston d.) Contractor bid contingency because of complexity of construction. e.) Higher rate of inflation in certain markets for certain types of construction f. ) Design changes g.) Some of the above h.) None of the above Cultural buildings tend to cost a lot more than other buildings. Goes to the quality of the finishes. This about-to-open 40,000 square foot expansion of a museum in Massachusetts (the building on the right) cost $125 million. I know Union tradesman receive excellent training, but HC is a non-union employer. What are the (good, I'm sure) reasons they specify a union contract? |
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Post by matunuck on Jul 20, 2019 14:10:41 GMT -5
Relatively wealthy colleges and universities are easy marks for construction companies and architects. Kind of like wedding planners.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 20, 2019 14:22:06 GMT -5
My opinion is make it attractive but highly functional with efficient use of space including multi-purpose as much as possible. When I see a stunning building with lots of soaring unusable space to make a statement I see inefficiency not granduer. But of course, I will be happy with whatever gets built. It's tough to please everyone.
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Post by matunuck on Jul 20, 2019 15:49:52 GMT -5
I find the proposed design to be hideous---it certainly will stand out from the rest of campus. It's possible to create a new building, that looks new, but complements the surrounding buildings: Smith Hall is a great example of that in my opinion. That's a good looking building that lloks like it belongs on the campus. If you think the proposed .PAC is hideous, have you seen the Luth ? i agree that the new PAC is not consistent with most of the architecture on campus, but the Luth clearly broke that mode already. From what I was told the “upper campus” is to be newer architecture. Thus the Luth set that tone. I believe the PAC is far more architecturally attractive than the Luth and to my mind complements the campus. So true on the exterior of the Luth. Wish they’d plant a forest in front to hide it. |
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 20, 2019 16:51:48 GMT -5
HC in the bid documents for Luth, specified that the contractor was to use union labor. DuMeo, who supposedly is the general contractor for The Jo, does beaucoup work for state universities. I am sure all those state university projects are built with union labor. The CAC at HC is supposedly a complex design, I would certainly want it built with union labor. Bryant's mini-Luth was built by an out-if-state contractor very likely using non-union labor. It collapsed completely midway through construction  The retreat center may have been non-union labor. And its possible that non-union labor might be used for the new residence hall on City View. Those are straight-forward buildings, not requiring the presence of ironworkers. |
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