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Post by Non Alum Dave on Aug 18, 2019 19:08:01 GMT -5
Agree, Crucis, but the continued notion that JG and CG transferring out after a coaching change is this big indictment on the previous coach is absurd to me. I also don't buy the notion on the board that Grandy has been holding the coach and program hostage over the last month while he contemplated his next move. I'll bet Coach Nelson was shopping that spot all the while, regardless of JG's name still being on the roster.
For us, though, cool - we can all opine on what we want the staff to do with the extra schollie.
I will keep an eye on on Grandy's exploits, because that's just me. I'm sure many members watch games all the time that have nothing to do with Holy Cross; I don't know why this would be different.
In the end, looks like Grandy simply followed the path of Joel Goodson:
Good luck to him.........and Go Cross Go!
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Post by Ignutz on Aug 18, 2019 20:04:03 GMT -5
Sounds like I’m in the minority here, but I’m interested in following how JG does at Illinois ( realizing, that’s 14 months away). Hopefully that doesn’t mean I have an agenda. My money is on him averaging a fraction of the time and production that he had for us last year. I loved watching him play on the nights that he showed up, but found those other nights to be very frustrating. Good luck to him. I can’t imagine that his time in orange will be as fruitful or as satisfying as if he had stayed in purple. Time will tell. We move forward, and I like how our future is shaping up. Go Cross Go!
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Post by cfrivals on Aug 18, 2019 21:31:44 GMT -5
Seven defections and suspensions in 3 years, I have never seen such a horrible coaching/AD tenure ever at HC. We became the cesspool that Brooks was taking about and we made it all the way to the bottom of the PL. The farce had to stop and hopefully, this coach and AD can do that
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Post by longsuffering on Aug 18, 2019 23:23:01 GMT -5
My money is on him averaging a fraction of the time and production that he had for us last year. I loved watching him play on the nights that he showed up, but found those other nights to be very frustrating. Good luck to him. I can’t imagine that his time in orange will be as fruitful or as satisfying as if he had stayed in purple. Time will tell. We move forward, and I like how our future is shaping up. Go Cross Go! Thanks so much for that musical treat. I got a lump in my throat and had to loosen my string tie. Nice to see photos of Trigger, although he looked stuffed in some shots.
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Post by bfoley82 on Aug 19, 2019 1:52:54 GMT -5
Sorry but Illinois has never been as "prominent" in MBB as Duke, KY, UMD, UNC or UCLA. When you finish as a runner up in the NCAA tourney in 2005 and made the sweet sixteen in 2001,2002, 2004, and 2005 you are entering into being a consistent power. They also won the Big Ten regular season title in each of those seasons! I hear what he is saying though. UCLA has four conference titles since 1997!
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Post by hcpride on Aug 19, 2019 5:54:26 GMT -5
Seven defections and suspensions in 3 years, I have never seen such a horrible coaching/AD tenure ever at HC. We became the cesspool that Brooks was taking about and we made it all the way to the bottom of the PL. The farce had to stop and hopefully, this coach and AD can do that No doubt our program has been a bit of a raging dumpster fire/train wreck to this point but on the positive side, the departure of our two best returnees off of our last-place Patriot League team has to be rock bottom for us. Forget next year's W-L and other standard measures of quality, if we hold on to our players and avoid scandals next year we are showing significant program improvement.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Aug 19, 2019 7:44:02 GMT -5
Sorry but Illinois has never been as "prominent" in MBB as Duke, KY, UMD, UNC or UCLA. When you finish as a runner up in the NCAA tourney in 2005 and made the sweet sixteen in 2001,2002, 2004, and 2005 you are entering into being a consistent power. They also won the Big Ten regular season title in each of those seasons! I hear what he is saying though. UCLA has four conference titles since 1997! Maybe you ought to look up the definition of "prominent".
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Post by joe on Aug 19, 2019 8:03:13 GMT -5
Seven defections and suspensions in 3 years, I have never seen such a horrible coaching/AD tenure ever at HC. We became the cesspool that Brooks was taking about and we made it all the way to the bottom of the PL. The farce had to stop and hopefully, this coach and AD can do that We’ll see how the new coach handles coaching at an academic school in an academic league. Has he been able to bring in the guys he has found early on or has he gotten a stiff dose of HC Admissions for the first time? I wonder. I usually don’t comment globally on threads but can we please let this thread sink to the bottom of the archives? This kid’s basketball career does not deserve 20 some odd pages of comments. He’s the Illini’s project now.
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Post by CHC8485 on Aug 19, 2019 8:17:09 GMT -5
Sorry but Illinois has never been as "prominent" in MBB as Duke, KY, UMD, UNC or UCLA. When you finish as a runner up in the NCAA tourney in 2005 and made the sweet sixteen in 2001,2002, 2004, and 2005 you are entering into being a consistent power. They also won the Big Ten regular season title in each of those seasons! I hear what he is saying though. UCLA has four conference titles since 1997! Lon Kruger went 38 - 28 in the Big 10 over 4 seasons ('96 - '00). Bill Self replaced him and went 35 - 13 over the next 3 Big 10 seasons ('01 - '03) before heading to Kansas. Bruce Webber replaced Self and went 28 - 4 over the next 2 seasons ('04, '05) and followed that up with 25 - 25 the next 3 ('07, '08, '09) So I think the answer to the question of what happened to Illinois is simple - Bill Self went to Kansas.
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Post by trimster on Aug 19, 2019 8:24:41 GMT -5
Seven defections and suspensions in 3 years, I have never seen such a horrible coaching/AD tenure ever at HC. We became the cesspool that Brooks was taking about and we made it all the way to the bottom of the PL. The farce had to stop and hopefully, this coach and AD can do that We’ll see how the new coach handles coaching at an academic school in an academic league. Has he been able to bring in the guys he has found early on or has he gotten a stiff dose of HC Admissions for the first time? I wonder. I usually don’t comment globally on threads but can we please let this thread sink to the bottom of the archives? This kid’s basketball career does not deserve 20 some odd pages of comments. He’s the Illini’s project now. My guess is he will adapt very quickly to what it takes for a recruit to be accepted at HC. I am sure he knew what he was getting into on multiple fronts before he accepted the position.
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Post by Tom on Aug 19, 2019 10:19:40 GMT -5
Seven defections and suspensions in 3 years, I have never seen such a horrible coaching/AD tenure ever at HC. We became the cesspool that Brooks was taking about and we made it all the way to the bottom of the PL. The farce had to stop and hopefully, this coach and AD can do that I do not think students in good standing transferring (like Green and Grandison) is evidence of a cesspool. Unless you are aware of more wrongdoing that Green and Grandison found so appalling they could not stand to be around it. I think of the cesspool as institutions resorting to all kinds of stuff with a win at all cost mentality. I suppose one could make an argument that HC in its desire to win let in athletes of poor moral character and the school should have vetted the suspended guys better before letting them in the school. Or the school knew what they were doing and allowed it until their hand was forced. all because those guys were needed to help win. While being in the bottom of the PL is by no means acceptable, that is not the cesspool that Fr Brook was talking about. In my opinion, saying HC became the cesspool that Fr Brooks walk talking about is at best major hyperbole
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Post by hchoops on Aug 19, 2019 10:47:13 GMT -5
Well said, Tom Totally agree
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Post by bfoley82 on Aug 19, 2019 11:00:17 GMT -5
When you finish as a runner up in the NCAA tourney in 2005 and made the sweet sixteen in 2001,2002, 2004, and 2005 you are entering into being a consistent power. They also won the Big Ten regular season title in each of those seasons! I hear what he is saying though. UCLA has four conference titles since 1997! Maybe you ought to look up the definition of "prominent". 19th in all-time wins as they have been dropping in that category the last few seasons...They have a better all-time winning percentage than Indiana, Villanova, UConn, NC State to just name a few. Illinois made the NCAA tournament 23 out of 30 years from 1980-2010. Since 2010, they have two appearances so they have dropped off. UCLA made 22 appearances in that same time period. Kentucky has 25 in those 28 seasons (as they were banned for two IIRC). The kid made a good decision and deserves a chance to show whether or not he can play in a Power 5 Conference.
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Post by hchoops on Aug 19, 2019 11:04:42 GMT -5
We will see if he made a good decision hoops wise. We may never know whether what any other consequence will be.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Aug 19, 2019 12:18:48 GMT -5
Seven defections and suspensions in 3 years, I have never seen such a horrible coaching/AD tenure ever at HC. We became the cesspool that Brooks was taking about and we made it all the way to the bottom of the PL. The farce had to stop and hopefully, this coach and AD can do that I do not think students in good standing transferring (like Green and Grandison) is evidence of a cesspool. Unless you are aware of more wrongdoing that Green and Grandison found so appalling they could not stand to be around it. I think of the cesspool as institutions resorting to all kinds of stuff with a win at all cost mentality. I suppose one could make an argument that HC in its desire to win let in athletes of poor moral character and the school should have vetted the suspended guys better before letting them in the school. Or the school knew what they were doing and allowed it until their hand was forced. all because those guys were needed to help win. While being in the bottom of the PL is by no means acceptable, that is not the cesspool that Fr Brook was talking about. In my opinion, saying HC became the cesspool that Fr Brooks walk talking about is at best major hyperbole While Green and Grandison leaving may not be evidence of a "cesspool" it could certainly be evidence of an eroding program culture. During the previous three coaching changes (RW, SK, MB), there was 1 active player who transferred (Mitch Hahn -- who was supposedly on his way out due to homesickness anyway), and now when Carmody leaves there were 2 players who left. Combine that with 3 scholarship players (+1 preferred walk-on) who got thrown off the team for rules violations in two separate instances over a ~12-month period, and the evidence continues to mount. Call it whatever you want, but the fact is that the Carmody era included dismal results both on and off the court.
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Post by cfrivals on Aug 20, 2019 14:56:50 GMT -5
My term of the word "cesspool" was a tongue and cheek jab at the thought about having to go to the PL to avoid such trouble that go with win at all cost. Looks at the trouble found with this program in the last 11 years, and all we keep doing is finishing at the bottom of the PL
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Post by timholycross on Aug 20, 2019 16:44:54 GMT -5
What ever happened to the NCAA report on KC, etc.?
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Post by HC92 on Aug 20, 2019 21:08:16 GMT -5
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Post by classof83 on Aug 21, 2019 9:52:49 GMT -5
I know the Transfer Portal is a new phenomenon and JG's circumstances are a little different because of the coaching change, but this system really puts the Patriot League schools at a disadvantage. As we know, the PL schools have to sign kids to develop so by the time they are juniors and seniors they can contribute. Under this system, schools like HC develop a kid for a few years and if the kid shows promise they could enter the Portal in the hopes of going to a major program. From what I understand, the coach can say no (and have a disgruntled player), but once the player makes the request with compliance the school can only hold the request for 48 hours at which time the player enters the portal automatically.
I know this puts the power into the hands of player, but it also makes a coach scramble to find a player to replace the one leaving, or be in a constant state of developing players knowing if they develop a kid the kid is going to get poached by a bigger school. To keep open the possibility of the kid returning to the school really is not fair to the coach or the school - especially if there is no cut-off date.
IMO, if possible, the policy of the Patriot League or HC, at least, is that if a kid enters the portal, the scholarship is automatically pulled with no chance of returning. I know - a tough approach - but the ease at which a kid can be recruited by other schools with little or no downside could develop a pattern that has repercussions for schools like HC.
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Post by hchoops on Aug 21, 2019 10:02:18 GMT -5
I know the Transfer Portal is a new phenomenon and JG's circumstances are a little different because of the coaching change, but this system really puts the Patriot League schools at a disadvantage. As we know, the PL schools have to sign kids to develop so by the time they are juniors and seniors they can contribute. Under this system, schools like HC develop a kid for a few years and if the kid shows promise they could enter the Portal in the hopes of going to a major program. From what I understand, the coach can say no (and have a disgruntled player), but once the player makes the request with compliance the school can only hold the request for 48 hours at which time the player enters the portal automatically. I know this puts the power into the hands of player, but it also makes a coach scramble to find a player to replace the one leaving, or be in a constant state of developing players knowing if they develop a kid the kid is going to get poached by a bigger school. To keep open the possibility of the kid returning to the school really is not fair to the coach or the school - especially if there is no cut-off date. IMO, if possible, the policy of the Patriot League or HC, at least, is that if a kid enters the portal, the scholarship is automatically pulled with no chance of returning. I know - a tough approach - but the ease at which a kid can be recruited by other schools with little or no downside could develop a pattern that has repercussions for schools like HC. Not a bad idea, Hard to do this unilaterally could be used against HC or the PL in recruiting. players who use the portal after a coaching change seem to be growing. Without a coaching change your proposal makes more sense.
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Post by efg72 on Aug 21, 2019 10:15:27 GMT -5
Think without a coaching change this is a good approach. It ends speculation and both the school and player move to the future. Without this the player has no risk in the decision and like in life decisions have consequences. If the practice continues without a benefit risk for the player it will create chaos for low to mid major programs in the future.
BTW It is not uncommon for younger Millennials and Gen Zs to walk away from things after two years, especially in the workplace, so my bet is this will become more common unless we have some sort of carrot/stick approach.
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Post by bison137 on Aug 21, 2019 10:21:03 GMT -5
Think without a coaching change this is a good approach. It ends speculation and both the school and player move to the future. Without this the player has no risk in the decision and like in life decisions have consequences. That's not accurate. The player takes a big risk, since his school can choose to take away his scholarship and not allow him to return if he chooses to enter the portal. I am sure that if Nelson had found an available 2019 player who he really liked that Grandison would not have been allowed to return.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Aug 21, 2019 10:22:10 GMT -5
I know the Transfer Portal is a new phenomenon and JG's circumstances are a little different because of the coaching change, but this system really puts the Patriot League schools at a disadvantage. As we know, the PL schools have to sign kids to develop so by the time they are juniors and seniors they can contribute. Under this system, schools like HC develop a kid for a few years and if the kid shows promise they could enter the Portal in the hopes of going to a major program. From what I understand, the coach can say no (and have a disgruntled player), but once the player makes the request with compliance the school can only hold the request for 48 hours at which time the player enters the portal automatically. I know this puts the power into the hands of player, but it also makes a coach scramble to find a player to replace the one leaving, or be in a constant state of developing players knowing if they develop a kid the kid is going to get poached by a bigger school. To keep open the possibility of the kid returning to the school really is not fair to the coach or the school - especially if there is no cut-off date. IMO, if possible, the policy of the Patriot League or HC, at least, is that if a kid enters the portal, the scholarship is automatically pulled with no chance of returning. I know - a tough approach - but the ease at which a kid can be recruited by other schools with little or no downside could develop a pattern that has repercussions for schools like HC. The Transfer Portal is no different than if Grandison and Green just went to HC to receive a release.so they could be recruited by other schools. An automatic ejection from the roster for anyone who enters the portal would be cutting off our nose to spite our face.
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Post by hchoops on Aug 21, 2019 10:23:54 GMT -5
Think without a coaching change this is a good approach. It ends speculation and both the school and player move to the future. Without this the player has no risk in the decision and like in life decisions have consequences. That's not accurate. The player takes a big risk, since his school can choose to take away his scholarship and not allow him to return if he chooses to enter the portal. I am sure that if Nelson had found an available 2019 player who he really liked that Grandison would not have been allowed to return. Do many players in the portal return to their original school ?
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Post by efg72 on Aug 21, 2019 10:25:36 GMT -5
Perhaps a coach/school could take action, but I would make it automatic and not at the discretion of the coach/school. And as mentioned above this wouldn’t apply if there is a coaching change.
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