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Post by possum on Jul 5, 2019 11:21:01 GMT -5
This has really turned into a chaotic situation. First Carmody decides to wait till mid June to announce his retirement. As a parting gift he gives a scholarship to yet another player who had no other D-1 offers. Then out of the blue Green and Grandison enter the transfer portal. Hard to figure out their thinking, were they that close to Carmody, upset that Kennedy didn't get the job, or maybe they thought that next year would be a transition year learning a new system and they would be better off transferring and adapting to a new system while sitting out a year then have two years to play thereafter.
No matter what the reason if they do transfer Nelson will inherit a very difficult situation with a depleted roster and virtually no chance to replace Green and Grandison for the coming year. His recruiting ability will be tested immediately as no matter what happens he needs to recruit 7 players in the next two classes. I guess the only positive might be that expectations will be low without Green and Grandison.
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Post by Ray on Jul 5, 2019 11:42:05 GMT -5
No matter what the reason if they do transfer Nelson will inherit a very difficult situation with a depleted roster and virtually no chance to replace Green and Grandison for the coming year. His recruiting ability will be tested immediately as no matter what happens he needs to recruit 7 players in the next two classes. I guess the only positive might be that expectations will be low without Green and Grandison.
I'm not much for the speculation here. I'd just as soon check back in September when school starts and see who's still here.
And I very much hope that Green and Grandison stay. I don't know what the overall "success" rate is for transfers, as it's pretty hard to quantify the criteria. But I'd wager to say it's pretty low in the aggregate. And in HC's recent (let's call it PL era) history, it's hard to find too many success stories of players who left HC. RJ's situation as a grad transfer is in its own category. After that, Hahn probably counts as a success for what he was looking for. Beyond that... it gets bleak pretty fast.
All of those caveats issued, turning our attention back to the above quote: there would undoubtedly be short-term pain if these two leave, as any hope of Coach Nelson making a quick pivot and contending for PL titles with a team centered on the Class of 21 would go out the window without Caleb and Jacob. HOWEVER, in terms of rebuilding from the ground up, giving Nelson those seven schollies in the next two years, and re-balancing the classes in the process, would be a positive development for the long term and actually accelerate Nelson building the roster in the style that he wants.
Again, I hope these two stay. I'd rather root for them over the next two years than see us go something like 7-22, 3-15 PL this coming year. But philosophically, it's an interesting question as to whether you think these guys are part of our next PL contender. And if not... starting over with basically the incoming frosh class as the cornerstone isn't the worst idea if you are the patient type.
Related: are there any reports yet as to the length of Nelson's contract? If not, that should go in the "questions for Tuesday" thread. I assume it's 5 years...
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Post by rickii on Jul 5, 2019 12:40:09 GMT -5
Given his high major background, Coach Nelson may end up utilizing the transfer portal himself at some point to bring in some help. Should we question the decision making/character of any incoming transfers? After all, one man's "great get for the program!" is another man's "don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out!" Good point. As we’ve seen with Chesney, transfers IN are thankfully not taboo at HC so long as their decent students. Trouble is, from where and who, at this late date, is good enough and academically qualified enough ? |
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Post by rgs318 on Jul 5, 2019 12:48:34 GMT -5
Legitimate questions which I am sure HCBN and staff would consider...but only after CG and JG make their decision known and final.
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Post by possum on Jul 5, 2019 13:01:26 GMT -5
Hoops who was the player Brown recruited that got dismissed from the team.
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letsgohc
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 80 
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Post by letsgohc on Jul 5, 2019 13:07:39 GMT -5
odds at Encore have both considering leaving because Coach Carmody departure.
Assume since both were recruited by Carmody and both were his favorites, betting Carmody told them he was leaving before it was announced. Good Luck to them both.
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Post by cmo on Jul 5, 2019 15:57:05 GMT -5
Given his high major background, Coach Nelson may end up utilizing the transfer portal himself at some point to bring in some help. Should we question the decision making/character of any incoming transfers? After all, one man's "great get for the program!" is another man's "don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out!" Good point. As we’ve seen with Chesney, transfers IN are thankfully not taboo at HC so long as their decent students. Trouble is, from where and who, at this late date, is good enough and academically qualified enough ? with football, Chesney can grab a kid from wake or LSU and they can play right away. Nelson won’t have that luxury. It would be great for us if a high major kid could transfer to a low major and not have to sit. |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jul 5, 2019 16:16:21 GMT -5
Good point. As we’ve seen with Chesney, transfers IN are thankfully not taboo at HC so long as their decent students. Trouble is, from where and who, at this late date, is good enough and academically qualified enough ? with football, Chesney can grab a kid from wake or LSU and they can play right away. Nelson won’t have that luxury. It would be great for us if a high major kid could transfer to a low major and not have to sit.Keep this thought quiet--the NCAA is liable to like the idea but implement it in the opposite direction |
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Post by CHC8485 on Jul 5, 2019 16:18:03 GMT -5
CHC I thought that I would respond to your post to give it the attention that it deserves. As I am in basic agreement with your post I wrote not to be defensive but to clarify. Chaos and confusion: I did think that it was quite obvious that I was referring to the posts on this board. How could I possibly be referring to anything going on with the HC players/team , since clearly there is no way I could know?My point was that there is confusion as to the facts about the transfer portal resulting in chaos on this board. In light of your comment after "Chaos and Confusion" I have added a reference to the posts on this board. Conjecture: You are correct that most if not all of the comments on this board are conjecture. I recognized that and have had no problem with it. It was my understanding that this board was primarily to serve as a discussion forum to exchange factual news about HC and yes to present opinions and speculations. After all we are not deciding anything on this board. However, my only concern was that some opinions could be hurtful to students and staff and damaging to the school. And, some posters are great in relaying factual news and that is what they focus on, to all our benefit. I thought by my phrasing (conditional wording)that again it was obvious that I was making conjectures or speculating. I never expressed my speculations as facts, all were speculative opinions. I thought that it was clear that my opinions were based on the matters speculated about, namely the conjectures about the withdrawal of the two players. Again,I have added to my post a comment to the effect that my statements are conjectures. It was always obvious to me that almost all of the posts were not factual but largely speculative due to the very nature of the comments. I admit that I find the varying speculations and differing opinions fun to read. As for the transfer portals, I thought that it was made quite clear that no-one knew definitively about the players. Certainly it was made abundantly clear that these players may not be leaving HC. As I wrote in my intro, I am in basic agreement with you although possibly not as concerned that the posters were not aware of the conjectural nature of the comments. However I can see that in this case some may have confused conjecture with fact as I thought would be understood in my opening words. Again thank you for your post . I hope that I satisfactorily cleared up any lack of clarity on my part. Please let me know. Thanks again. Stay well .  LoveHC mm67, 1. If you start a post saying chaos and confusion reign supreme and then launch into a discussion about what the new coach could and may do, it does not give the impression that your opening comment applied only to this board. My apologies for mis-reading that. 2. The comment about conditional phrases and opinions has to do with people missing that nuance in ALL posts. That is why I said "not picking on you in particular." You made that clear you were writing hypothetically. I was using all of those conditional phrases to simply point out that a week from now someone will turn your comment about what the coach MIGHT do into something he did. Perfect example, a week from know someone will say that Nelson gave CG & JG a deadline to re-commit because you said that is one course he could take. 3. A bit of online etiquette. Please use carriage returns more often and create paragraphs with blank lines between them. It will make your posts much more readable. |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jul 5, 2019 22:01:09 GMT -5
Tyrone Cohen JR
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 5, 2019 22:01:28 GMT -5
If Green goes to Dartmouth and Grandison goes to Yale, is it still a bad decision? No |
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Post by bison137 on Jul 5, 2019 22:42:27 GMT -5
Hoops who was the player Brown recruited that got dismissed from the team. Karl Charles was originally recruited by Milan Brown. However he was ultimately recruited and signed by FCBC just a few weeks after he was hired by HC. |
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 5, 2019 22:44:26 GMT -5
If a kid is lighting up D-2 and would love to transfer to HC, he would not have to sit for a year, right?
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Post by bison137 on Jul 5, 2019 23:19:51 GMT -5
If a kid is lighting up D-2 and would love to transfer to HC, he would not have to sit for a year, right? Normally a player transferring up to D1 would have to sit a year. |
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jul 6, 2019 5:33:43 GMT -5
Hoops who was the player Brown recruited that got dismissed from the team. Karl Charles was originally recruited by Milan Brown. However he was ultimately recruited and signed by FCBC just a few weeks after he was hired by HC. Jack Stevens was also originally recruited by Brown. He was also re-recruited by Carmody.
Their misbehavior, along with Cohen's, occurred at Holy Cross when they were in Carmody's charge.
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Post by possum on Jul 6, 2019 6:19:39 GMT -5
Bit of a stretch tying Brown to these guys. He was gone in March, Cohen and Stevens were not signed till November, and certainly weren't the top tier recruits we were pursuing that year, Andree, Brodeur, Gasperini and Nelson. Maybe Brown recruited Charles before his junior year injury in high school but his recruiting was done in November that year and there were no scholarships available until he was fired and Hahn transferred and Proctor de-committed. For all his coaching failures Brown ran a clean program and trying to tie him to this problem is a bit disingenuous.
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letsgohc
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 80
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Post by letsgohc on Jul 6, 2019 7:17:28 GMT -5
Bit of a stretch tying Brown to these guys. He was gone in March, Cohen and Stevens were not signed till November, and certainly weren't the top tier recruits we were pursuing that year, Andree, Brodeur, Gasperini and Nelson. Maybe Brown recruited Charles before his junior year injury in high school but his recruiting was done in November that year and there were no scholarships available until he was fired and Hahn transferred and Proctor de-committed. For all his coaching failures Brown ran a clean program and trying to tie him to this problem is a bit disingenuous. Milan Brown was also on The Grassy Knoll. |
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jul 6, 2019 8:10:13 GMT -5
Not sure why there is a need to go back and tie this to that, but that's just me..
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 6, 2019 8:20:23 GMT -5
If a kid is lighting up D-2 and would love to transfer to HC, he would not have to sit for a year, right? Normally a player transferring up to D1 would have to sit a year. Thanks Bison. So it's move up or sideways: sit, but move down: play right away, unless it's a fifth year graduate (or undergraduate if the kid is a slow learner?) transfer who can play right away, and i before e except after c, right?☺️ |
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Post by hc6774 on Jul 6, 2019 8:43:13 GMT -5
Normally a player transferring up to D1 would have to sit a year. Thanks Bison. So it's move up or sideways: sit, but move down: play right away, unless it's a fifth year graduate (or undergraduate if the kid is a slow learner?) transfer who can play right away, and i before e except after c, right?☺️ see NCAA guidelines... this part of 30 pp on the subject www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/TGONLINE42018.pdf |
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 6, 2019 9:02:18 GMT -5
Thanks Bison. So it's move up or sideways: sit, but move down: play right away, unless it's a fifth year graduate (or undergraduate if the kid is a slow learner?) transfer who can play right away, and i before e except after c, right?☺️ see NCAA guidelines... this part of 30 pp on the subject www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/TGONLINE42018.pdfThanks. Learned something interesting on the first page. 9.5% of all NCAA baseball players turn pro and 6.4% of NCAA hockey players do. These are the two pro sports with vast established minor league networks, and in baseball a good amount of independent pro baseball leagues. |
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Post by rgs318 on Jul 6, 2019 9:16:31 GMT -5
Not sure why there is a need to go back and tie this to that, but that's just me.. No, not just you. This rehashing of past recruiting seems to be the only way some can still attack former coaches. It seems that animosity for some has no boundaries or time limits. Also, the same folks seem unwilling to attribute poor behavior choices to the people who actually behaved that way. Is there ever a time limit to repeating such nonsense? If there is, I hope time expires soon. |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jul 6, 2019 9:21:40 GMT -5
Has anyone heard of any other schools now expressing interest in JG and CG? Are there any websites that specialize in monitoring transfer talk?
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 6, 2019 9:44:14 GMT -5
Not sure why there is a need to go back and tie this to that, but that's just me.. No, not just you. This rehashing of past recruiting seems to be the only way some can still attack former coaches. It seems that animosity for some has no boundaries or time limits. Also, the same folks seem unwilling to attribute poor behavior choices to the people who actually behaved that way. Is there ever a time limit to repeated such nonsense? If there is i hope time expires soon. Excellent point. Probably the best Coach/GM evah in the NFL (BB) drafted probably the worst behaving player ever in the NFL (AH) and only the player was convicted of murder, not the coach. |
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jul 6, 2019 9:58:58 GMT -5
Definitely disappointed to here about two of our top student athletes possibly transferring.
Hope they end up staying. Jacob and Caleb were a pleasure to watch play their first two years. Hope they make the right decision for themselves whatever that might be.
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LoveHC
