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Post by longsuffering on Aug 14, 2019 9:45:26 GMT -5
Bison, I wonder if you could explain the paradox of Woodstock (Ct) Academy, a private school dating from the 1700s that functions as a public regional high school with Woodstock and neighboring small towns paying tuition for their residents with a small component of foreign students from China and elsewhere and a few out of state private pay students. They have competed in the public school leagues but some (other public schools, I believe) want them banished to the Prep School leagues. I haven't been able to follow the story consistently. I don't know that much about it, but I know in basketball they have two entirely different teams with different rules. They have a prep school elite team, with many post-grads who are highly ranked. Since it was formed, it has been one of the higher ranked teams in the nation. I think there might be a second post-grad team as well. And then they have a normal team that plays a CIAC schedule and competes in the state tournament. That team has no post-grads or fifth years, and has been very mediocre against mediocre competition. Note that Woodstock Academy functions as the public school for a number of nearby towns, as well as taking in students from other places. It's a fascinating arrangement in the sense that it probably wouldn't fly if it was being proposed today with the political power of teacher unions, but since it has been working since the 1700s why change it.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Aug 14, 2019 10:01:15 GMT -5
My opinion: Yes, Nelson wants his leading scorer, who has improved each of his first two seasons, back for his junior and senior year. . . . He knows JG has the talent to make the team better. Improvement is in the eye of the beholder, I guess - it's certainly arguable here. In conference play, per 40 minutes:
1. Overall FG% declined, from 43.2 as a freshman to 40.2 as a soph, and EFG% declined (from 51.0 to 49.5). 3FG% increased, and scoring increased marginally (from 13.6 to 14.4). 2. Rebounding declined significantly (7.4 to 4.5) 3. FTA declined (3.1 to 2.0) and FTR was cut in half (27.7% to 15.2%) 4. Assists declined (3.1 to 2.8) 5. Turnovers increased (3.7 to 4.0) 6. Offensive Rating declined (102.3 to 94.8) 7. Defensive Rating declined (103.8 to 111.1)
Stats aside, in the opinion of my humble eyes, he was a poor defender, especially in close-outs on the perimeter, and he didn't strike me as being consistently interested in that aspect of the game.
Whether or not he can continue to hit threes at the rate he did last year or not - the only quantifiable improvement of note - it's not clear to me that his presence makes us a better team.
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Post by sader81 on Aug 14, 2019 10:02:04 GMT -5
Bison, I wonder if you could explain the paradox of Woodstock (Ct) Academy, a private school dating from the 1700s that functions as a public regional high school with Woodstock and neighboring small towns paying tuition for their residents with a small component of foreign students from China and elsewhere and a few out of state private pay students. They have competed in the public school leagues but some (other public schools, I believe) want them banished to the Prep School leagues. I haven't been able to follow the story consistently. I don't know that much about it, but I know in basketball they have two entirely different teams with different rules. They have a prep school elite team, with many post-grads who are highly ranked. Since it was formed, it has been one of the higher ranked teams in the nation. I think there might be a second post-grad team as well. And then they have a normal team that plays a CIAC schedule and competes in the state tournament. That team has no post-grads or fifth years, and has been very mediocre against mediocre competition. Note that Woodstock Academy functions as the public school for a number of nearby towns, as well as taking in students from other places. This may give some explanation and be a sign of things to come. I know its been brought up at my old Catholic HS in Waterbury. www.nhregister.com/sports/article/Notre-Dame-West-Haven-to-start-own-post-graduate-13562602.php
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Post by alum on Aug 14, 2019 10:03:06 GMT -5
Bison, I wonder if you could explain the paradox of Woodstock (Ct) Academy, a private school dating from the 1700s that functions as a public regional high school with Woodstock and neighboring small towns paying tuition for their residents with a small component of foreign students from China and elsewhere and a few out of state private pay students. They have competed in the public school leagues but some (other public schools, I believe) want them banished to the Prep School leagues. I haven't been able to follow the story consistently. I can answer this. Woodstock, as you note, is a private school that acts as a public high school for several towns. It also accepts boarding and day tuition paying students from elsewhere. In recent years, they have turned this into a profitable post grad athletic program. The PG's play New England prep school basketball Everyone else plays regular CT high school sports under the jurisdiction of the Connecticut Interscholastic Athletic Conference (CIAC.) Here are some recent new stories about a traditional Catholic school trying to do the same thing www.nhregister.com/sports/article/Formation-of-Notre-Dame-Prep-program-met-with-13658406.phpwww.ctpost.com/sports/highschool/article/Jeff-Jacobs-Notre-Dame-West-Haven-s-post-grad-13564394.phpI will be honest, I liked the old ways better where kids were recruited for college hoops out of their traditional public or parochial schools. "Rich kids" went to prep school where they played exotic sports like lacrosse and when an athlete PG'd, it was because he (it was never "she" back in those days) needed to "get his grades up." But now, I sound like the old guy Dan S was talking about in the article posted on another thread yesterday. EDIT: I just looked at the CIAC website. Woodstock's traditional high school team was 9-11 and lost in the first round of the Division 4 state tournament.
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Joe Reilly
Aug 14, 2019 12:18:02 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by HC92 on Aug 14, 2019 12:18:02 GMT -5
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Post by longsuffering on Aug 14, 2019 14:01:17 GMT -5
My opinion: Yes, Nelson wants his leading scorer, who has improved each of his first two seasons, back for his junior and senior year. . . . He knows JG has the talent to make the team better. Improvement is in the eye of the beholder, I guess - it's certainly arguable here. In conference play, per 40 minutes:
1. Overall FG% declined, from 43.2 as a freshman to 40.2 as a soph, and EFG% declined (from 51.0 to 49.5). 3FG% increased, and scoring increased marginally (from 13.6 to 14.4). 2. Rebounding declined significantly (7.4 to 4.5) 3. FTA declined (3.1 to 2.0) and FTR was cut in half (27.7% to 15.2%) 4. Assists declined (3.1 to 2.8) 5. Turnovers increased (3.7 to 4.0) 6. Offensive Rating declined (102.3 to 94.8) 7. Defensive Rating declined (103.8 to 111.1)
Stats aside, in the opinion of my humble eyes, he was a poor defender, especially in close-outs on the perimeter, and he didn't strike me as being consistently interested in that aspect of the game.
Whether or not he can continue to hit threes at the rate he did last year or not - the only quantifiable improvement of note - it's not clear to me that his presence makes us a better team.
I'll go with your facts and figures and defensive observations and modify my position to: I would think Coach Nelson would value JG on the team for his junior and senior year under his coaching as a higher and better use of Grandy's two year scholarship slot than one year of a freshman during the 2020-21 season. But there are pros and cons to both choices if it comes to that. One intangible is how coach and player would take to each other and there is no indication they wouldn't respond well to each other. Neither one has dissed the other during this long convoluted portal process that I have noticed in the fairly comprehensive coverage on this board. I think his return to the program would give the team a boost over an empty spot on the bench or a recruit still available to be accepted before classes begin. From my perspective I hope Coach Nelson has continued to recruit Grandy in a positive way and Jacob knows the coach wants the best for him, including continuing at HC if the slot is still open and that's the best option for all concerned. I don't view utilizing the fully NCAA sanctioned (and thus sanctioned by it's member institutions) portal option as a morality play.
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Post by possum on Aug 14, 2019 14:23:41 GMT -5
Nelson's been on board for 6 weeks now if JG hasn't returned to the team by now in my opinion his time is up. If I'm the coach or a player I only want guys who are committed to the process not someone who comes back only because all other options fell through.
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Post by trimster on Aug 14, 2019 15:30:42 GMT -5
I think this is good news. Reilly is good. Undersized at 5-11-ish but knows the game, can shoot and run the offense, comes from a great basketball family, tough, works hard. Several posters on the Fairfield board are familiar with Reilly and were hoping he would sign with the Stags during his now not to be year of prep school.
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Post by breezy on Aug 14, 2019 15:38:02 GMT -5
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Post by hchoops on Aug 14, 2019 15:42:11 GMT -5
I think this is good news. Reilly is good. Undersized at 5-11-ish but knows the game, can shoot and run the offense, comes from a great basketball family, tough, works hard. Several posters on the Fairfield board are familiar with Reilly and were hoping he would sign with the Stags during his now not to be year of prep school. Pretty greedy not satisfied stealing Green ?
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Post by hchoops on Aug 14, 2019 15:45:35 GMT -5
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Post by Crosser on Aug 14, 2019 16:30:25 GMT -5
Joey Reilly now listed on the roster. Jacob still on it too.
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Post by longsuffering on Aug 14, 2019 16:52:02 GMT -5
Fingers crossed. I wonder if Grandy wanted to play for HC this year and Nelson said he wanted to not use the scholarship instead and Grandy appealed to the AD if Blossom would step in on behalf of Grandy?
Is Grandy a member of the Holy Cross family until he unenrolls or not? Is the basketball team for the student athletes or the coach?
My guess again is that Coach Nelson has continued to graciously recruit Grandy during the process, understands his situation completely and is 100% supportive of whatever Grandy wants to do.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Aug 14, 2019 17:06:06 GMT -5
First off, welcome to HC Joe Reilly!
Agree that depth was needed at the stop, but it still seems a little strange to me to have 2 frosh point guards. Some may not like this, but don't you think part of the sales pitch had to include the chance to play next to Druzi at times (2 attacking, scoring PGs)? Only so many minutes to go around. I'll say one thing - he apparently was not phased by the presence of Druzi. Although not exactly the same, might be a similar dynamic of having Torey and Pat on the squad together.
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Post by bison137 on Aug 14, 2019 17:09:15 GMT -5
Fingers crossed. I wonder if Grandy wanted to play for HC this year and Nelson said he wanted to not use the scholarship instead and Grandy appealed to the AD if Blossom would step in on behalf of Grandy? Is Grandy a member of the Holy Cross family until he unenrolls or not? Is the basketball team for the student athletes or the coach? My guess again is that Coach Nelson has continued to graciously recruit Grandy during the process, understands his situation completely and is 100% supportive of whatever Grandy wants to do. There is no chance a all that an AD would overrule a coach on something like this - unless it was a coach the AD wanted to push out the door. I don't think Grandison will make up his mind until after his Illinois visit at a minimum.
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Post by dharry13 on Aug 14, 2019 17:45:33 GMT -5
I think it's pretty fair to say we will see Nelson's recruiting sense right out of the gate. He didn't have to use the scholarship now. He could have waited to use it along with JG's (possible) next year for a class of 3. Instead he saw a kid now that he wanted and pulled the trigger. Yes, I understand it's a position of need right now, but they didn't have to rush to fill it. So he must have really liked the kid.
I'm all for it if it means Wins, so we will see right away his ability to bring in talent. No, this doesn't mean if he misses on this kid that he can't recruit. I'm just curious on this one right out of the gate. Time will tell.
Did he have any offers prior to committing to prep school?
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Post by efg72 on Aug 14, 2019 18:23:39 GMT -5
Fingers crossed. I wonder if Grandy wanted to play for HC this year and Nelson said he wanted to not use the scholarship instead and Grandy appealed to the AD if Blossom would step in on behalf of Grandy? Is Grandy a member of the Holy Cross family until he unenrolls or not? Is the basketball team for the student athletes or the coach? My guess again is that Coach Nelson has continued to graciously recruit Grandy during the process, understands his situation completely and is 100% supportive of whatever Grandy wants to do. He is a member until he is not. my guess it likely is like a business model. If so, the basketball team represents the college, the coach manages and leads the team and the student athlete comes in third.
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Post by hchoops on Aug 14, 2019 18:28:58 GMT -5
With the ease of the portal for transfers, I believe that the student athlete is at least second.
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Post by efg72 on Aug 14, 2019 18:42:01 GMT -5
Could be right. I was responding in terms of how school administrators might view it
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Post by HC92 on Aug 14, 2019 18:54:05 GMT -5
I think it's pretty fair to say we will see Nelson's recruiting sense right out of the gate. He didn't have to use the scholarship now. He could have waited to use it along with JG's (possible) next year for a class of 3. Instead he saw a kid now that he wanted and pulled the trigger. Yes, I understand it's a position of need right now, but they didn't have to rush to fill it. So he must have really liked the kid.
I'm all for it if it means Wins, so we will see right away his ability to bring in talent. No, this doesn't mean if he misses on this kid that he can't recruit. I'm just curious on this one right out of the gate. Time will tell.
Did he have any offers prior to committing to prep school? From the Hartford Courant in his POY article: Up next: Will look to play basketball at the collegiate level ... Has been offered by Hartford, Sacred Heart, West Point and most recently, Jacksonville.
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Post by hchoops on Aug 14, 2019 19:27:51 GMT -5
I think it's pretty fair to say we will see Nelson's recruiting sense right out of the gate. He didn't have to use the scholarship now. He could have waited to use it along with JG's (possible) next year for a class of 3. Instead he saw a kid now that he wanted and pulled the trigger. Yes, I understand it's a position of need right now, but they didn't have to rush to fill it. So he must have really liked the kid.
I'm all for it if it means Wins, so we will see right away his ability to bring in talent. No, this doesn't mean if he misses on this kid that he can't recruit. I'm just curious on this one right out of the gate. Time will tell.
Did he have any offers prior to committing to prep school? From the Hartford Courant in his POY article: Up next: Will look to play basketball at the collegiate level ... Has been offered by Hartford, Sacred Heart, West Point and most recently, Jacksonville. VC confirms the Jacksonville and Hartford offers
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Joe Reilly
Aug 14, 2019 20:20:19 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by longsuffering on Aug 14, 2019 20:20:19 GMT -5
Well played. He upgraded from those two offers.
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Joe Reilly
Aug 14, 2019 20:23:35 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by HC92 on Aug 14, 2019 20:23:35 GMT -5
From the Hartford Courant in his POY article: Up next: Will look to play basketball at the collegiate level ... Has been offered by Hartford, Sacred Heart, West Point and most recently, Jacksonville. VC confirms the Jacksonville and Hartford offers I assume the Courant talked to him and his parents and his coach. I trust that info is accurate. VC is relying on whatever is on Twitter. Reilly doesn't even have a Twitter account. His AAU program tweeted about Hartford and Jacksonville.
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Post by hchoops on Aug 14, 2019 20:28:44 GMT -5
I have no doubt that he had all the offers mentioned in the Courant
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Post by trimster on Aug 15, 2019 6:36:36 GMT -5
VC confirms the Jacksonville and Hartford offers I assume the Courant talked to him and his parents and his coach. I trust that info is accurate. VC is relying on whatever is on Twitter. Reilly doesn't even have a Twitter account. His AAU program tweeted about Hartford and Jacksonville. Imagine that. A young man without a Twitter account. I like him already.
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