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Post by timholycross on Sept 12, 2019 19:05:28 GMT -5
Oh, I should add I was and am completely on board with HC letting him walk ...I just fail to see why this peripheral stuff happened. Good luck to BU with Sullivan
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 12, 2019 19:30:39 GMT -5
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Post by breezy on Sept 12, 2019 19:40:17 GMT -5
As far as I can see, the Complaint filed by BG's attorney sets forth one version of the facts.
I've seen enough Complaints over the years to know that it often happens that the "facts" stated in a Complaint do not match the "facts" that emerge when both parties have to support their positions with actual evidence and testimony under oath..
There was a time when BG was a successful basketball coach. That was quite a few years ago. As has been pointed out, his W-L record in recent years was not very good, and he certainly did not merit extension of his contract.
It's interesting to me that Coach Parks continues to be on the coaching staff.
BG seems to be popular within the Worcester community and may get the benefit of local sympathy, but the decision not to extend his contract was correct. (The age discrimination claim, in my view, is laughable. Given his recent lack of success, his age had nothing to do with the decision not to extend his contract.)
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 12, 2019 20:19:17 GMT -5
I have been a big fan of Coach Mac, but today's news highlights the value of a season as interim head coach to allow ADMB to make an informed decision about who he wants as a head coach going forward.
I also appreciate the players producing an 18-13 season with these distractions. It was the men's team that had two defections after a coaching transition that was without rancor.
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Post by timholycross on Sept 12, 2019 20:20:13 GMT -5
It seems that the focus of the lawsuit is the suspension and the issues that pertain to no contract extension being offered are just embellishment.
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Post by timholycross on Sept 12, 2019 20:25:55 GMT -5
As far as I can see, the Complaint filed by BG's attorney sets forth one version of the facts. I've seen enough Complaints over the years to know that it often happens that the "facts" stated in a Complaint do not match the "facts" that emerge when both parties have to support their positions with actual evidence and testimony under oath.. There was a time when BG was a successful basketball coach. That was quite a few years ago. As has been pointed out, his W-L record in recent years was not very good, and he certainly did not merit extension of his contract. It's interesting to me that Coach Parks continues to be on the coaching staff. BG seems to be popular within the Worcester community and may get the benefit of local sympathy, but the decision not to extend his contract was correct. (The age discrimination claim, in my view, is laughable. Given his recent lack of success, his age had nothing to do with the decision not to extend his contract.) It's also interesting that the only African American on the team is, fortunately, still on the team. I'm sure she had options had she decided Holy Cross and the basketball program had created an unwelcome environment.
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Post by bison137 on Sept 12, 2019 20:40:45 GMT -5
I have been a big fan of Coach Mac, but today's news highlights the value of a season as interim head coach to allow ADMB to make an informed decision about who he wants as a head coach going forward. I also appreciate the players producing an 18-13 season with these distractions. It was the men's team that had two defections after a coaching transition that was without rancor. I was surprised to see McInerney named in the suit, which references “further false allegations from Parks and McInerney about Coach Gibbons” that resulted in “a second unfair, inappropriate and unjustified ‘no trespass’ order” against him, according to the suit.". I had heard a while ago about issues with Parks but didn't know there were problems between BG and AM as well.
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Post by gks on Sept 12, 2019 21:10:45 GMT -5
Why is the Cooper case, which Gibbons was cleared, of any relevance to this? Gibbons is was and is still very popular in Worcester and the area. They have already sided with him on this. Doesn't matter what the result of this suit is.
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Post by HC92 on Sept 12, 2019 21:35:02 GMT -5
Yet another situation poorly handled by the HC Administration. Let him finish the season. Don’t offer a new contract. Hire a new coach. Move on. That way would have been too simple. Much better this way.
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coachrt
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 92
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Post by coachrt on Sept 12, 2019 21:54:08 GMT -5
One thing that bothers me in all this (put aside the lawsuit for a moment) is the actions of his assistants. I know AM over time proved to not be a trust worthy assistant. She had her own agenda and the situation with Coach Parks opened the door for her especially when she made statements in support of Parks. How quickly people forget the BG brought AM onto the staff when AM was at her lowest point in her career. He basically saved her professionally and this is how he gets repaid. Just another example of D1 athletics. Very little loyalty at this level and people will stab you in the back to get ahead in this profession. The fact Parks felt entitled to speak up to the head coach in the middle of a game no less is astounding to me. AM comes across as a very popular and beloved individual among her peers in the women's game. Its too bad people that know the situation can see her for what she is.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 12, 2019 23:48:43 GMT -5
Today's article was eye opening for me. I assumed that BG and AM worked well together because BG gave her a landing spot and they both are from the same tribe: Worcester Irish. Apparently that wasn't the case, at least at the end.
I am a little surprised that Father B. allowed a "No Trespass" order. You would hope that one of the benefits of having a Jesuit Priest as President would allow him to meet with key employees and subordinates in cases like this and help resolve issues amicably. But apparently the bureaucracy at HC has him isolated from the process.
This disagreement was allowed to be defined as a woman subordinate being threatened by a male superior and now we have No Trespass orders and a lawsuit. I would imagine either Father Brooks or Ron Perry, Sr. would have directed the two employees to talk it out, shake hands and work together in the best interests of Holy Cross.
I think five coach equivalents for 14-15 student athletes is too many and I think the bureaucracy has grown too large for a small undergraduate college.
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Post by alum on Sept 13, 2019 4:43:58 GMT -5
..... I trust the College administrators to make the right call. I've got a bridge to sell you! Excellent. I always wanted my own bridge. Just to be clear, I am only trusting them to know when/if to settle this mess.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 13, 2019 6:03:32 GMT -5
Today's article was eye opening for me................ This disagreement was allowed to be defined as a woman subordinate being threatened by a male superior and now we have No Trespass orders and a lawsuit. I would imagine either Father Brooks or Ron Perry, Sr. would have directed the two employees to talk it out, shake hands and work together in the best interests of Holy Cross. I think five coach equivalents for 14-15 student athletes is too many and I think the bureaucracy has grown too large for a small undergraduate college. That was yesteryear. This almost certainly was a Title IX complaint. There are now elaborate policies and procedures. Excerpts below. Re: the second last para supra, after an investigation and determination of fault, Gibbons could not be allowed to continue as head coach and supervisor of the assistant coach who was the complaining party. If the college did allow him to continue, that could generate a Federal lawsuit from the Dept. of Education. Re: the last paragraph, that gets to Cooper and the other complaining player.
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Post by bison137 on Sept 13, 2019 7:42:07 GMT -5
Why is the Cooper case, which Gibbons was cleared, of any relevance to this? According to several of Phreek's posts over time, HC ended up paying Cooper to settle her lawsuit, so there may be at least some relevancy.
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Post by Tom on Sept 13, 2019 8:14:57 GMT -5
Just a quick review:
- Coach Gibbons tells an assistant that if she shows him during a game again she would be fired. The next day at a staff meeting Coach Gibbons tells all of the assistants it's important to appear united in front of the players, but he is the head coach and his word is final.
- Prior to the staff meeting, the assistant coach goes to HR and says Coach Gibbons threatened her
- Investigations shows nothing. No action taken. Back to business
- Same assistant goes back HR with another complaint. We don't know what, but Coach Gibbons says it was that he didn't listen to his assistants
- Not much there. No immediate action taken
- At some point after the second meeting, the assistant coach sent an E-mail saying that Coach Gibbons displayed racism toward her and some minority players
- Coach Gibbons was suspended
- Coach Gibbons was fired. At the press conference the statement was only about team performance. At no point did the school even hint that the suspension was a contributing factor to the termination. The school however did not come out and say that it was not a factor
------------------------------------------------------
It stinks for Coach Gibbons that the timing of the suspension and termination might lead one to conclude that is why he got fired.
Fifteen years ago, the school might have told the assistant that she cried "wolf" too often and she should stop throwing mud on the wall to see if something sticks. That response doesn't work in 2019. In my opinion. Coach Gibbons probably got a raw deal with the suspension. His reputation was damaged because, in absence of facts, many people assumed the worst.
On the other hand, I'm not sure that makes HC civilly liable. Unless they are given leave to publicly release the entire report, is it the school's fault if some people assume the worst? Even if you release everything, some will still believe the worst. In 2019, was it even an option for the school to not investigate the racism accusation, even if the prior two complaints from this assistant were deemed frivolous?
Coach Gibbons is mad, and rightly so. In my opinion, he is the victim of a hyper-sensitive assistant in an environment where everyone must curtail to the whims of the hyper-sensitive. Holy Cross has deep pockets and that's an easy target. He's mad that HC didn't back him up, but instead "eschewed the word of a deeply loyal and exemplary thirty-eight year employee, for the fabricated allegations of . . . assistants" Welcome to 2019. I'm guessing he also thinks that the termination and suspension were connected. That may or may not be true. No coach thinks they deserve to get canned for job performance.
Coach Gibbons is probably the victim here, but based on 2019 standards, I don't think that HC is the villian.
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Post by hcpride on Sept 13, 2019 8:21:34 GMT -5
(I am not a lawyer). I assume Gibbons will attempt to show the non-renewal as an adverse employment action and the result of the improperly (his view) adjudicated issues with the assistant coaches. HC's motion for summary judgment or subsequent MTD could make short work of this. One way out for both sides is a quick and confidential settlement (well below the dollar figure noted but certainly face-saving for both sides.)
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Post by timholycross on Sept 13, 2019 8:23:41 GMT -5
Gibbons should have been out the door (told he wasn't being renewed and sent off to pursue other interests at the end of the season) before this HR complaint had to be dealt with. There was nothing about that complaint that cried out it had to be dealt with that quickly.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 13, 2019 8:31:59 GMT -5
Why is the Cooper case, which Gibbons was cleared, of any relevance to this? According to several of Phreek's posts over time, HC ended up paying Cooper to settle her lawsuit, so there may be at least some relevancy. At the time of Cooper, the college's policies and procedures for investigating complaints such as the unidentified player made against Gibbons were woeful. IIRC, a Title IX or similar complaint made by a student against a non-faculty employee of the college was investigated and adjudicated by the vice president for administrative services (I can't remember the exact title, but he also had responsibility for facilities and grounds. It made me think the college was primarily worried about wayward gardeners.). There seemed to have been little in the way of process and procedures to guide him. Cooper, in her complaint, said that she was questioned in the course of the college's investigation of the unidentified player's complaint. Cooper herself never formally filed a complaint with HC, and apparently there was no separate investigation of Cooper's allegations as made in her lawsuit. However, it is safe to say that Cooper voiced complaints about Gibbons' behavior when she was questioned. And that should be in the record. (For her not to have done so would have greatly undercut her own subsequent claims.) The result of the college's investigation into the complaint of the unidentified player were never made public. That there was even an investigation was only made public in Cooper's filing with the court in New York. Cooper alleged in her complaint that the college's silence with respect to its investigation of the unidentified player's complaint compelled her to withdraw from HC at the end of her sophomore year; for her (and her parents) there was no indication that Gibbons would cease his allegedly abusive behavior. She was basically saying the college buried its investigation of the complaint of the unidentified player. The aforementioned vice president is no longer with the college, nor is the college's general counsel from that time. When Father B. became President, the person he hired as his principal assistant was a lawyer. Ever since, the college was prepared and promulgated policies and procedures in a number of areas, including, most specifically, Title IX.
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Post by HC92 on Sept 13, 2019 8:40:38 GMT -5
Why is the Cooper case, which Gibbons was cleared, of any relevance to this? According to several of Phreek's posts over time, HC ended up paying Cooper to settle her lawsuit, so there may be at least some relevancy. I doubt if Phreek has any way of knowing the terms of a confidential settlement. We can all speculate. No one but the parties and their lawyers and insurance companies knows how the matter resolved.
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Post by Tom on Sept 13, 2019 8:52:57 GMT -5
Gibbons should have been out the door (told he wasn't being renewed and sent off to pursue other interests at the end of the season) before this HR complaint had to be dealt with. There was nothing about that complaint that cried out it had to be dealt with that quickly. From the Telegram It's tough to say that doesn't need to be dealt with quickly, especially given the nature of a coaching staff and the close proximity the accused and accuser would be required to work within
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Post by timholycross on Sept 13, 2019 8:56:15 GMT -5
Gibbons should have been out the door (told he wasn't being renewed and sent off to pursue other interests at the end of the season) before this HR complaint had to be dealt with. There was nothing about that complaint that cried out it had to be dealt with that quickly. From the Telegram It's tough to say that doesn't need to be dealt with quickly, especially given the nature of a coaching staff and the close proximity the accused and accuser would be required to work within Who were the minority players in 2017-18? There was exactly one in 2018-19 and she was a freshman at the time, so not part of the previous team. Simply don't remember any, but most likely I am wrong about that.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 13, 2019 9:14:17 GMT -5
The sum and substance of Gibbons' complaint is this: From the T&G article
If true, this could be in violation of the college's policies and procedures.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 13, 2019 9:24:24 GMT -5
According to several of Phreek's posts over time, HC ended up paying Cooper to settle her lawsuit, so there may be at least some relevancy. I doubt if Phreek has any way of knowing the terms of a confidential settlement. We can all speculate. No one but the parties and their lawyers and insurance companies knows how the matter resolved. Phreek has no knowledge of the terms of the settlement. The college settled very soon after the case was sent back to state court in New York, and Cooper's complaint was amended to include the BoT as defendants.. IIRC, Cooper's representation had grown to include three law firms.
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Post by Tom on Sept 13, 2019 9:25:54 GMT -5
I don't know. I was merely cutting and pasting from the Telegram.
In all fairness, I pasted that the reporter wrote that Mr Hoag wrote that Coach Parks E-mailed that this was done to some players over past two seasons. We're up to about 5th hand information.
If the incident at the game is anything like what was reported in the article (which sounds like it's from the complaint, not the actual video) and Coach Parks actually went to HR about it, I wouldn't but a lot of faith in anything she said (like the number of players Coach Gibbons displayed a racist attitude toward), even if the school has to take it seriously
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Post by sader1998 on Sept 13, 2019 9:26:43 GMT -5
With all the scandals, lawsuits, and administrative issues in the last few years, I think Vince Lombardi has the right take:
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