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Post by rgs318 on Sept 14, 2019 6:08:44 GMT -5
I would like to have a little more insight regarding the comment of “almost automatic today”. It seems to marginalize or being used to invalidate a possible legitimate complaint. I hope that is not your intent, that is to have a conclusion without having the evidence or having witness the day to day interaction that led up to the complaint. I must say that my personal experience plays a factor here, but I have seen that argument (the "race card") used so often that it has done just what you say. Its overuse undermines some legitimate concerns over real events by making it seem as if they are not legitimate. When I worked with clients in inner-city Paterson they used it all the time.It was right up there with the way they used "you're lying" when they disagreed with someone. Over time, I actually got them to understand the difference between difference of opinion and lying (that was something that helped them and it also made me feel I was not just spinning my wheels). Whenever they were disciplined for some violation (at work or at Straight and Narrow) they would say it was just because off race. I feel that my five plus years in Paterson were some of the best counseling I have ever done. It is a time of which I am proud. PS: It was not just me. My department chairman at Mercy College was also called racist by a Hispanic student from Puerto Rico (over a grade, of course).. He was of Dominican ancestry and his wife is Puerto Rican. He also founded a congregation in a church in Harlem (the largest Hispanic congregation in NYC). Facts had little or no place in these accusations. The race card could be played whenever it suited the person playing it because they were well aware of the emotions it could trigger.)
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 14, 2019 7:12:16 GMT -5
There were posters on this board, including myself, who believed the weak OOC schedules were being set up to allow Gibbons to achieve several coaching milestones, and then retire. That belief now seems to have been misguided.
I'm fairly sure Gibbons approached ADNP before the start of last season about a contract extension, and either none was offered, or an extension was conditioned on the team achieving certain goals, e.g., winning x number of games, or a PL championship. If the latter, did Gibbons think he had a team that could actually achieve those goals? If he didn't, that could lead to his believing that HC was pushing him out the door, one way or the other, and a building resentment.
A precedent for HC's handling of Gibbons was the former coach of men's LAX, who was suspended mid-season and presumably paid through the end of the contract. ___________________________
In the previous 'suspension', -- and HC13 will correct me if I'm wrong -- Gibbons suspended himself, a letter-writing campaign of Worcester area coaches was organized in his behalf (the names are in the article by the Marquette law professor) and subsequently unsuspended himself and returned to his position as head coach. Cooper's case was still on-going. IIRC, AM compiled an 11-4 W-L record in his absence. Perhaps she was succeeding too well.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 14, 2019 9:14:03 GMT -5
I believe the Cooper lawsuit was settled some time ago (with confidentiality agreements blocking the details), so the case is not ongoing. Gibbons took a voluntary leave of absence and IIRC there was no suspension at that time.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 14, 2019 9:27:43 GMT -5
As far as we know no players made official complaints before the coaching transition and none left after the coaching transition.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 14, 2019 13:53:28 GMT -5
I believe the Cooper lawsuit was settled some time ago (with confidentiality agreements blocking the details), so the case is not ongoing. Gibbons took a voluntary leave of absence and IIRC there was no suspension at that time. You are correct that in October 2013, Gibbons voluntarily stepped aside from the program. He was placed on paid administrative leave. He returned to his position in mid-January 2014. NP became athletic director on Feb 1, 2014. Cooper's suit was settled in August 2014.
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Post by thecrossisback on Sept 25, 2019 21:15:21 GMT -5
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Sept 25, 2019 22:10:34 GMT -5
Per usual Turtle Boy nails it.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 25, 2019 23:25:58 GMT -5
Turtleboy as character reference. Something tells me Holy Cross' legal team will make good use of this article.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 26, 2019 7:22:22 GMT -5
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 26, 2019 7:24:29 GMT -5
While freedom of speech is indeed important, the ACLU seems to have little to do.
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Post by lou on Sept 26, 2019 7:41:07 GMT -5
Brilliant piece of journalism
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Post by crusader12 on Sept 26, 2019 7:57:10 GMT -5
Turtleboy as character reference. Something tells me Holy Cross' legal team will make good use of this article. They can get in line with about 100 others with no recourse.......
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Post by purplehaze on Sept 26, 2019 12:10:33 GMT -5
'he's been winning since before you were born' - huh ? this guy knows how to use foul language but decided to ignore the coach's performance for the last dozen years. I wonder why such a legendary coach who is only 60 has not found another job. He could certainly contribute to someone considering his basketball wisdom - after all he's a legend.
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Post by hcnation on Sept 26, 2019 12:43:29 GMT -5
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Post by alum on Sept 26, 2019 14:18:53 GMT -5
While freedom of speech is indeed important, the ACLU seems to have little to do. Actually, they are quite busy. www.aclu.org/defending-our-rights/court-battlesAnyone who looks at their client list will find that they represent some wonderful people and entitles and some loathsome ones as well. That's kind of their thing. Of course, many here will differ about which ones are wonderful and which ones are not.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 26, 2019 15:20:56 GMT -5
Dan Shaughnessy is a much better character reference than Turtleboy.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Sept 26, 2019 17:05:40 GMT -5
Bill doesn't need any character references. The same can't be said for the staff that pulled every card in their organized actions to get rid of him.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 26, 2019 17:36:36 GMT -5
Perhaps neither side needs character references. I notice that the Coach's backers do not mention his contract was at an end and his record underwhelming for some years now. I hope this gets wrapped up quickly. IMHO, no one benefits from this getting dragged out.
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Sept 26, 2019 17:59:05 GMT -5
It would seem to me that the strongest argument BG can make is that the suspension was unwarranted, and the fallout from this sullied his reputation impairing his future job prospects and earning capacity.
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Post by bison137 on Sept 26, 2019 19:00:13 GMT -5
It would seem to me that the strongest argument BG can make is that the suspension was unwarranted, and the fallout from this sullied his reputation impairing his future job prospects and earning capacity. I think that the way he coached the team sullied his reputation and impaired future job prospects.
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Post by timholycross on Sept 26, 2019 19:02:54 GMT -5
It would seem to me that the strongest argument BG can make is that the suspension was unwarranted, and the fallout from this sullied his reputation impairing his future job prospects and earning capacityd. . Yes, because in terms of him not getting rehired he has no leg to stand on that I can see. Which is why the asshats at holy Cross blew it totally by letting the HR complaint interfere.
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Post by efg72 on Sept 26, 2019 20:19:20 GMT -5
They had been attacking him for the past few years, fairly or unfairly. His career W-L speaks for itself so these efforts could appear to be a smear job on his character or an effort by the AD to make a change without cause.
With no knowledge about any of the interruptions in his coaching, from a distance this looks like a total mismanagement by the AD and his staff and would lend credibility to legal action. With that said I am not a lawyer, even on tv
‘However, as a somewhat distant friend of his since he started with HC I will say he deserved a much better fate
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 26, 2019 23:11:42 GMT -5
It would seem to me that the strongest argument BG can make is that the suspension was unwarranted, and the fallout from this sullied his reputation impairing his future job prospects and earning capacityd. . Yes, because in terms of him not getting rehired he has no leg to stand on that I can see. Which is why the asshats at holy Cross blew it totally by letting the HR complaint interfere. Perhaps PP could enlighten us as to the potential consequences HC would risk under title IX and their own policies if they did not suspend BG. The asshats probably felt boxed in and at least avoided being charged with being racist or misogynist by taking the action they did. Perhaps FADNP was wise enough to plan on letting the season and BG's "legendary" career end as graciously as possible but that wisdom left when NP left and FIADBS took over.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 27, 2019 8:35:42 GMT -5
. Yes, because in terms of him not getting rehired he has no leg to stand on that I can see. Which is why the asshats at holy Cross blew it totally by letting the HR complaint interfere. Perhaps PP could enlighten us as to the potential consequences HC would risk under title IX and their own policies if they did not suspend BG. The asshats probably felt boxed in and at least avoided being charged with being racist or misogynist by taking the action they did. Perhaps FADNP was wise enough to plan on letting the season and BG's "legendary" career end as graciously as possible but that wisdom left when NP left and FIADBS took over. Phreek's lengthy reply was strangled at the Primary DNS server and lost in the ether. When Phreek stops fulminating, he will try and re-compose it, probably later today.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Sept 27, 2019 10:16:07 GMT -5
There has been at least three HR issues regarding BG that I have read. The latest incident was probably the straw that broke the camel’s back regarding his head coaching position at Holy Cross. The first incident in many institution being enough to ask you to find other employment. His coaching success, personality and the fact that the issue was a relative that anecdotally has been mentioned as the issue saved him. Incident #2 with Cooper certainly compromised his ability to recruit players to H.C. Incident #3 should have been handled at half time by both parties without public display. Emotional display in public regarding an employment issue will certainly get you out the door in most situations.
BG has many friends, allies, as well as detractors in the coaching community during his 34 years. At 60+, reality sets in regarding finding a new position in any field, less more one as competitive as D1 basketball. Unless you have an outstanding record in your last several years of constantly reaching an elite status in record and the NCAA tournament, your possibilities of finding a similar position are limited, even without the HR baggage.
There are probably issues relating to recruiting that the Cooper incident has now caused the ability to recruit the level of talent necessary to succeed in a D1 program. As a parent or AAU coach, many would not want to have their daughter or player placed in an atmosphere where the coach is similar to Bobby Knight. Muffin McGraw, Kim Mulkey and Tara VanDeVeer are successful with a relatively quiet public demeanor.
At some point for everyone in their career, the boss will make a determination that it is time to go in a new direction. This can be healthy for both parties, based on the dynamics and economics of the organization. In retrospect, the optimal time for BG career wise would have been to reach the 600 victory mark, network behind the scene for a new position either at HC, in the coaching community or a league or NCAA organization. He certainly had the bonafidies. Get the position then announce he was retiring as HC Head Coach. Would have been a win win for both parties. Reading the tea leaves, with the HR incidents, age, lack of recent success and now legal entanglements, the possibilities of finding a position in coaching are limited to having a good friend find a job for you with a lot of caveats regarding behavior and liabilities.
Please note that ad hominem attacks do not add to an argument for support of either party.
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