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Post by hc87 on Nov 9, 2019 22:41:40 GMT -5
How many quality wins has Chesney really had? 2018 Yale Lafayette (being generous because of score, 40-14) 2019 UNH I got three. Is that way off? I might throw in Colgate this year...up 31-3 through 3 against a team that has now won 3 of their last 4.At Lehigh this year too. I'd go 3 or 4 decent to good wins against 2 bad losses the last 2 years...rest were mostly chalk either way. Not bad in Year 2 imo
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2019 22:43:18 GMT -5
How many quality wins has Chesney really had? 2018 Yale Lafayette (being generous because of score, 40-14) 2019 UNH I got three. Is that way off? I might throw in Colgate this year...up 31-3 through 3 against a team that has now won 3 of their last 4.At Lehigh this year too. I'd go 3 or 4 decent to good wins against 2 bad losses the last 2 years...rest were mostly chalk either way. Not bad in Year 2 imo I missed the Colgate game, but agree with you. 4 quality wins in 2 years.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Nov 9, 2019 23:07:28 GMT -5
In order, I would say Chesney's best wins so far are as follows:
1) Yale last year -- we've historically been snake bit against the Eli. 2) UNH - don't care how much of a fluke it may have been, or how much the Wildcats played over their heads in CAA play, I'll take this scalp any day. 3) Lehigh last week - going up against FCTG on the road where we hadn't won since 2009 against an improving Engineer team. While it was a bit early to bill this game as the "de facto league championship game", most following this game would have figured the winner would end up winning the league. 4) Georgetown in last year's finale -- I don't care who you're playing, rallying from 31-5 down in the second half merits recognition. We took our fair share of lumps against the Hoyas during the second half of Gilmore's tenure.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 9, 2019 23:10:19 GMT -5
I don’t think it is hyperbolic to think we would be in better shape this season with Gilmore as head coach, Wade as QB, and anyone else as OC.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 9, 2019 23:54:20 GMT -5
I don’t think it is hyperbolic to think we would be in better shape this season with Gilmore as head coach, Wade as QB, and anyone else as OC. Whose players would your Coach Gilmore have? Would he have recruited and signed players as good as Gilliam, Ayeni, Dobbs, Oliver, Ng, Kiessling, Doran and the other standouts in HCBC's first two classes?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2019 0:22:17 GMT -5
I would say Dobbs, Ayeni, and Ng are the elite recruits in their position (to this point). Gilmore recruited McBeath (All American, prior to Dobbs)
Oliver would have come along with Jeff Oliver, so Gilmore would have gotten him by default. Oliver is a hard worker, but he is not elite for Gilmore's better squads. He is similar to Mike Kielt (2007), however, Kielt had better versatility.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2019 0:23:03 GMT -5
Chesney has failed to get his best players the ball in the current offensive system, so Ayeni and Doran have been grossly underutilized.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2019 0:28:33 GMT -5
In the first two years, Chesney has recruited and developed zero viable QB's. Dom Randolph started in year 3 of Gilmore's campaign.
I can play this game all day if you want.
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Post by bfoley82 on Nov 10, 2019 0:48:54 GMT -5
In the first two years, Chesney has recruited and developed zero viable QB's. Dom Randolph started in year 3 of Gilmore's campaign. I can play this game all day if you want. He never had an elite QB at Assumption...the four times I shot his squads at Assumption, he played multiple quarterbacks in each game. None of it was INJURY related either.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 10, 2019 8:20:44 GMT -5
43, your loyalty to TG is admirable and something I share. Where you and I part company is your constant disparagement of BC who has proven throughout his career what we called in business a "turnaround specialist" manager/leader - taking a floundering department or company and making it a success.
Here's the thing, consider trying to discern how much your thought process is colored by TG's firing and whether you are subconsciously blaming BC. TG was fired and Chesney had nothing to do with it. FWIW, TG told me personally that he thought Chesney was a good choice for Holy Cross as his replacement.
Can't we wish the best for both men? IMHO they are both quality people and very good coaches both on the field and off. You can argue that Bob Chesney hasn't had a winning season yet (but very well might this year); you can argue Tom might have done even better this season (but no one could prove/disprove that hypothetical); but the argument that he can't succeed because he didn't play the game at a high level or came from a D-1 background just doesn't hold water.
Enjoy the journey to Crusader football success. There will be some bumps in the road but direction forward is unmistakable.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Nov 10, 2019 8:28:50 GMT -5
Stop being logical, sader, it's no fun.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 10, 2019 8:29:01 GMT -5
Nicely put, sader. Yesterday was clearly a "bump" because it was a loss in an important game (important this year, not by any absolute standards). I too believe that TG's firing was badly mishandled and, after all he gave to the Cross, he deserved better. I had hoped that in Butash we had someone who could be the quality QB that we seem to need. QB seems to be the one position where our coaches do not develop "stars." But, with an "average" QB, the supporting cast they have put together can create a powerful team. Fumbles seem to come to HC in bunches. May HC not have another in these last two games! Also, may our receivers get to and hold on to passes. When they do, HC rolls. I believe HC can be "undefeated' in the Bronx this year. We'll see.
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Post by efg72 on Nov 10, 2019 8:56:36 GMT -5
Bfoley made a comment about Assumption QBs -Interestingly there are coaches who build teams with average talent around really strong Defense and Special teams, and look for a serviceable QB who takes what care of the ball, which allows for a very simple and safe offense that doesn’t give possessions away. Yesterday would not be a shinning example of what those coaches wanted in any phase of the game, but over the course of the season Degenhart certainly fills that role for the offense
Today, we have very good FCS skill players on offense and an adequate offensive line. If the next QB, either from the current roster or a recruit, can pick it up a notch or two and the staff changes it’s offensive philosophy this could be a potent offense, or at least one that is more interesting to watch and challenging to defend.
So if Bfoley’s observation and my thoughts have any connection, until that next QB steps up I am not sure we will see much change in terms of style
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Post by gks on Nov 10, 2019 9:18:42 GMT -5
I don’t think it is hyperbolic to think we would be in better shape this season with Gilmore as head coach, Wade as QB, and anyone else as OC. Whose players would your Coach Gilmore have? Would he have recruited and signed players as good as Gilliam, Ayeni, Dobbs, Oliver, Ng, Kiessling, Doran and the other standouts in HCBC's first two classes? Gilmore never would have recruited Doran because he played in Central Mass.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 10, 2019 9:44:17 GMT -5
In the first two years, Chesney has recruited and developed zero viable QB's. Dom Randolph started in year 3 of Gilmore's campaign. I can play this game all day if you want. Don't you tire of losing, though?
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Post by CHC8485 on Nov 10, 2019 10:13:35 GMT -5
You didn't really think this one through, did you? In the "dismal" Patriot League Bob Chesney coached HC teams are 7-3 in 2018 & 2019. I was referring to overall record. The knock on Gilmore was not being able to execute when it matters, correct? Well, we are following the same pattern against weaker competition. The problem I have with most people on this board is that Chesney is not held to the same standard. Bucknell in 2018 and Lafayette in 2019 are games that should be won by multiple scores. Those opponents are not good football teams. And the problem most have here with your posts is that Chesney IS being held to the same standard as Gilmore. Understandably, I don't think you were posting on the prior incarnation of this board but perhaps you were reading. When the HC Football team was on an upward swing 21 games into his HC tenure, the majority of posters were saying basically the same things about Gilmore that they are saying now about Chesney. There was a detractor or 2 and they received the same blow-back you're getting now. The standard for Gilmore did not change until after the 2009 season, going 6-5, 6-5, 2-9, 3-9, and 4-8 with 4, 4, 2, 1,and 2 wins in the PL and then many started being critical. And he lasted another 2+ seasons after that with many still supporting him. The point is, Gilmore was given a chance to build the program and then for 7+ seasons after he won a championship to get back to that level. Never really approached that level again. Things clearly are not perfect with the team today, but much like Gilmore's second year, they are better than they were during six seasons prior to Chesney's arrival. Most here are willing to give Chesney at least another year or 2 before dumping on EVERYTHING he does. And many have also been critical where required - most notably with offensive system/co-ordinator and QB.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 10, 2019 10:28:52 GMT -5
I share 8485's Crossports' "institutional memory" of the old board and he is spot on as to the tenor at the time. Tom Gilmore was seen as a savior of the program after the fall during the Dan Allen days. Tom justifiably had been named Coach of the Year for his turnaround. More than most but not as great as some here, I know the obstacles and frustrations Tom faced at Holy Cross. And I will also say that he also finds Admissions a challenge at Lehigh recruiting as he did at Holy Cross, the difference being the focal point of those departments. Lehigh focuses on SAT scores and Holy Cross high school grades. Guess it's a Patriot League thing.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 10, 2019 10:43:40 GMT -5
My concern about the offense is that it is simple and predictable. Simple and predictable can indeed be effective, see Mr. Lombardi and the Green Bay Packers. Execution bettered gimmickry.
Opposing coaches now have two years of film on Spread 'em and Shred 'em's offensive schemes, and I fear a reprise of the HC simple and predictable offense in 2020 will again produce a mixed bag of results.
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Post by HC16 on Nov 10, 2019 10:47:19 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2019 10:50:01 GMT -5
I am not trying to be a cynic, but why would you chose Holy Cross over Harvard in 2019? I would venture to say that 99% of players would go to Harvard if they were getting a good financial aid package and had an opportunity to play. I love Jeff and respect his son, but his skill set would be better utilized as a FB, HBack, or TE (like his Dad)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2019 11:01:58 GMT -5
“Initially it was really tough,” Oliver said of the injury and, more importantly the premature end of his senior season and his St. John’s gridiron career. “But after a while a lot of the football wisdom that is around me – my dad (longtime Holy Cross strength and conditioning coach Jeff Oliver), coach A. (St. John’s head coach John Andreoli) and coach (Matt) Pedone – started to sink in."
All of his coaches were associated with Holy Cross and his stock would have dropped after the injury his senior year. So, yes, Gilmore would have gotten him if he wanted to play in the FCS.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2019 11:07:20 GMT -5
In the first two years, Chesney has recruited and developed zero viable QB's. Dom Randolph started in year 3 of Gilmore's campaign. I can play this game all day if you want. Don't you tire of losing, though? I will admit my faults. UNH and Navy are a lot better teams than I would have predicted at the beginning of the season.
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Post by thecrossisback on Nov 10, 2019 11:19:00 GMT -5
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Post by hc87 on Nov 11, 2019 12:55:51 GMT -5
One thing that gives me hope for Saturday vis a vis the PL title....just realized that this is Colgate's iast game of the year.
Hopefully they will leave nothing in the tank etc
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Post by bfoley82 on Nov 12, 2019 2:03:06 GMT -5
Bfoley made a comment about Assumption QBs -Interestingly there are coaches who build teams with average talent around really strong Defense and Special teams, and look for a serviceable QB who takes what care of the ball, which allows for a very simple and safe offense that doesn’t give possessions away. Yesterday would not be a shinning example of what those coaches wanted in any phase of the game, but over the course of the season Degenhart certainly fills that role for the offense Today, we have very good FCS skill players on offense and an adequate offensive line. If the next QB, either from the current roster or a recruit, can pick it up a notch or two and the staff changes it’s offensive philosophy this could be a potent offense, or at least one that is more interesting to watch and challenging to defend. So if Bfoley’s observation and my thoughts have any connection, until that next QB steps up I am not sure we will see much change in terms of style He had two elite wr’s (All-Americans) at Assumption including one that is playing for the Saints right now but his offense was predicated on running the ball to set up the pass. Oliver reminds me of the type of backs he had over there... We will see what happens but always been a big Chesney guy
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