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Post by purplehaze on Nov 12, 2019 11:21:22 GMT -5
Some over on the Lehigh board are alerting their readers to the treatment Gilmore was handing out at players and asst coaches last Saturday during their lackluster loss to Bucknell. He was in a few faces with some salty language apparently and I would think TG would have learned to calm down a bit when things are going south during a game. This was a trait while he was in Worcester which did not sit well with us, that has been well estsblished. He's exceeded some expectations for his team this season so I hope he settles down during these final two weeks (in a screwy late season schedule, Lehigh travels to Fairfield, Ct this Saturday to play Sacred Heart, which loves to beat up PL teams)
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Post by lou on Nov 12, 2019 11:30:55 GMT -5
Lehigh fans closely watching the transfer portal
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Post by inhocsigno on Nov 12, 2019 11:34:03 GMT -5
I never got this objection. He is a football coach. If people cannot handle getting cussed at a little on the field maybe they should have played another sport. Also, I don't think the delicate sensibilities of PL fans is all that important a trait.
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Post by lou on Nov 12, 2019 11:40:31 GMT -5
I never got this objection. He is a football coach. If people cannot handle getting cussed at a little on the field maybe they should have played another sport. Also, I don't think the delicate sensibilities of PL fans is all that important a trait. I know what I like, and what I dont like to see and hear, especially coming from my coaches
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Post by nhteamer on Nov 12, 2019 11:43:25 GMT -5
I never got this objection. He is a football coach. If people cannot handle getting cussed at a little on the field maybe they should have played another sport. Also, I don't think the delicate sensibilities of PL fans is all that important a trait. The difference is that in the PL everyone in the stands, all 1,500, hear their husband, son, boyfriend being told he is a worthless mo#%#$*^^@er, pice of s*#t! It's not private at all. I hated sitting at Fitton, anywhere on the HC side, after someone disappointed HCTG. Every eight year old in the stands can hear him. Also, the refs hated him; think that is good for the squad?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2019 11:50:58 GMT -5
I never got this objection. He is a football coach. If people cannot handle getting cussed at a little on the field maybe they should have played another sport. Also, I don't think the delicate sensibilities of PL fans is all that important a trait. Most people don't like the truth and most PL fans are blind to a lot of things. Passive Aggressive behavior is at all time high because people refuse to be direct. I respect Gilmore for that and would rather be around that personality type than 99% of the population. You will always knew where you stood and if he respected you, he took it easy. If not, well, there was probably a reason. If you didn't like playing for Gilmore, you most likely sucked, were injured, or were not living up to your potential. If anything, it brought the team closer together.
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Post by inhocsigno on Nov 12, 2019 11:54:07 GMT -5
I never got this objection. He is a football coach. If people cannot handle getting cussed at a little on the field maybe they should have played another sport. Also, I don't think the delicate sensibilities of PL fans is all that important a trait. The difference is that in the PL everyone in the stands, all 1,500, hear their husband, son, boyfriend being told he is a worthless mo#%#$*^^@er, pice of s*#t! It's not private at all. I hated sitting at Fitton, anywhere on the HC side, after someone disappointed HCTG. Every eight year old in the stands can hear him. Also, the refs hated him; think that is good for the squad? Husband should have coached better, son should have played better, and she (the girlfriend) should have picked a better boyfriend. I did not play for TG and have no particular affinity for him other than he worked his ass off for the program. However, a tough coach is not necessarily a bad thing. I would defer to the players that played for him. If they hate him, than that is a problem. If they liked playing for him, then he did his job in that regard.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2019 12:02:43 GMT -5
I was a whipping boy for Gilmore for over three years which came to a head when he fired Kotulski in 2005. If you didn't stand up to Gilmore, he would walk on you (as he should). However, if you worked hard, stood your ground, and exceeded expectations, he treated you differently.
As a senior, I was never yelled at. But, it was earned not given.
Most people expect things before they do anything. Just look at how many pictures are posted of HC freshmen in uniform before they even step foot on campus.
Gilmore is a stark wake up call for most people that live in delusion. If you can handle him, you can handle anything in life.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Nov 12, 2019 12:03:58 GMT -5
I never played college ball, so I can appreciate some former players' opinions on this. As a player, and as the son of a coach who yelled at basically everyone (umps, refs, teammates included), I know the difference between a coach yelling "to me," and yelling "at me." Some college coaches make it a point to walk out into the middle of the field or the court, publicly berate a player, and bark them back to the bench. I think there is a fine line-- and this is a skill- to rip a player a new one for the purposes of accountability, teaching, and setting the expectations for the whole team, versus trying to embarrass them or make yourself feel like a bigger person.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2019 12:15:23 GMT -5
After Saturday's loss against a 2-7 team, HC deserved a little more verbal assault. If Gilmore had Murphy as an OC, Murphy would have quit at the beginning of the season.
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Post by hcpride on Nov 12, 2019 12:33:45 GMT -5
/\ One of the criticisms of Gilmore was that assistants who had options elsewhere frequently left - I don't think it is a secret he could be hard on assistants.
On the subject of verbal treatment of players I think it is a fine line for a fiery coach and prudence would dictate avoiding screaming at a player (referee, etc.) to the greatest extent possible. Especially if one has been put on notice by college administration.
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Post by moose1970 on Nov 12, 2019 12:58:15 GMT -5
being "hard nosed"' "tough", "demanding", etc is all part of coaching college football. cursing either on the sideline or at practice is NEVER acceptable especially at a roman catholic college. if TG or any other coach has that problem they need to either find another occupation or seek out counseling.
btw, although i never heard a coach cursing while playing football at holy cross the team was subject to the following comment/threat after a practice where the head coach was not too pleased. "unless there there are improvements here gang there will be repercussions both physical and financial". let that sink in!
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Post by longsuffering on Nov 12, 2019 13:17:00 GMT -5
I never cursed in my whole career, as I recall. If a paying customer wanted to curse I didn't object but I didn't respond in kind. I felt that anything that could be communicated by swearing could be communicated more precisely without swearing. I do enjoy dropping an occasional F-bomb or two in private conversation.
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Post by Chu Chu on Nov 12, 2019 13:27:29 GMT -5
There is a difference between "getting cussed at a little" and being out of control and losing your #@*&$~!. TG crossed that line too often, IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2019 13:38:16 GMT -5
I never cursed in my whole career, as I recall. If a paying customer wanted to curse I didn't object but I didn't respond in kind. I felt that anything that could be communicated by swearing could be communicated more precisely without swearing. I do enjoy dropping an occasional F-bomb or two in private conversation. Coaching Div 1 Football is a little different than working at Kohl's. Having said that, every single coach that was at HC over the 4 years I was there, used what this board would view as "bad language". My nickname during 2005 was "f*c*ing c*cksucker" and that didn't come from Gilmore. There were coaches that were far worse.
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Post by hcpride on Nov 12, 2019 13:59:25 GMT -5
/\ Again, it is one thing to be a bit fiery and a bit in-your-face as a collegiate football coach. It is quite another thing to be put on notice by your employer regarding such behavior...and then continuing. That would indicate a lack of control and might constitute just cause for dismissal. I am not saying this is precisely why TG was unceremoniously fired mid-season and just a few hours after the now-infamous Yale game.
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Post by inhocsigno on Nov 12, 2019 14:11:16 GMT -5
being "hard nosed"' "tough", "demanding", etc is all part of coaching college football. cursing either on the sideline or at practice is NEVER acceptable especially at a roman catholic college. if TG or any other coach has that problem they need to either find another occupation or seek out counseling. btw, although i never heard a coach cursing while playing football at holy cross the team was subject to the following comment/threat after a practice where the head coach was not too pleased. "unless there there are improvements here gang there will be repercussions both physical and financial". let that sink in! #$@&^*! - that's crazy. Never acceptable?
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Post by moose1970 on Nov 12, 2019 14:18:21 GMT -5
being "hard nosed"' "tough", "demanding", etc is all part of coaching college football. cursing either on the sideline or at practice is NEVER acceptable especially at a roman catholic college. if TG or any other coach has that problem they need to either find another occupation or seek out counseling. btw, although i never heard a coach cursing while playing football at holy cross the team was subject to the following comment/threat after a practice where the head coach was not too pleased. "unless there there are improvements here gang there will be repercussions both physical and financial". let that sink in! #$@&^*! - that's crazy. Never acceptable? " Never acceptable?" NEVER!!! if a coach cannot get that through his/her thick skull then let them hit the road. i do not know of any coach worth a damn who needs cursing to be a good coach.
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Post by unhfan on Nov 12, 2019 14:18:54 GMT -5
Every coach in America is going to yell and swear at the players. That is not going to change. If a kid can’t handle it then he can always transfer but not sure we’re you’ll go that it doesn’t happen especially in football or basketball. I’m sure even the great coaches as Coach K are known for their fiery language.
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Post by Tom on Nov 12, 2019 14:30:49 GMT -5
Husband should have coached better, son should have played better, and she (the girlfriend) should have picked a better boyfriend. I did not play for TG and have no particular affinity for him other than he worked his ass off for the program. However, a tough coach is not necessarily a bad thing. I would defer to the players that played for him. If they hate him, than that is a problem. If they liked playing for him, then he did his job in that regard. I can live with a player hating a coach. A more important question to me would be if the player respected the coach.
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Post by alum on Nov 12, 2019 14:33:33 GMT -5
I never cursed in my whole career, as I recall. If a paying customer wanted to curse I didn't object but I didn't respond in kind. I felt that anything that could be communicated by swearing could be communicated more precisely without swearing. I do enjoy dropping an occasional F-bomb or two in private conversation. Coaching Div 1 Football is a little different than working at Kohl's. Having said that, every single coach that was at HC over the 4 years I was there, used what this board would view as "bad language". My nickname during 2005 was "f*c*ing c*cksucker" and that didn't come from Gilmore. There were coaches that were far worse. Who says it has to be that way? I don't really care about a little bit of swearing and/or yelling myself but many people do. There are other ways to motivate players that work just as well. I suspect as time goes on, fewer and fewer college football players will respond to screaming and swearing because they will have been been exposed to fewer and fewer coaches growing up who do it. A good coach will change with the times because, in the Patriot League, the players don't get fired, the coach does. I was coaching U10 rec soccer a million years ago. It was half time and I told the team that we needed to cut down on the stupid passes. A player told me that "stupid" was a swear. It wasn't a swear at our house, but there were probably better ways to make that point. I am not suggesting that U10 rec soccer bears any resemblance to low FCS football like you played, but I do recognize that we can all do better. There is an episode of Modern Family where Cam and Jay are coaching the high school football team and all of the trigger, safe space, gender neutral stuff is played for some great laughs.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 12, 2019 14:52:15 GMT -5
Never having played for Tom Gilmore since #1 I’m way older than him and #2 I never had the talent, I can post without fear of successful contradiction that I have spoken with a number of guys who did play for him in the past, most who have graduated but a couple still on the team and the opinions seem split down the middle with half loving the guy and the other half detesting him. The common element being how they perceived the same treatment they got.
Some, as 43 often posts, saw beyond the immediate situation and recognized Tom’s higher/longer term purpose. Others got caught up in the immediate situation. I don’t think either is objectively wrong. Learned that from years of investigating accidents where witnesses saw the same thing but had different interpretations of what they saw.
I am not sure how Coach Chesney handled the loss last weekend but sure hope he didn’t say “there, there now guys, don’t feel badly, we’ll work harder and do better at Fordham.”
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Post by moose1970 on Nov 12, 2019 15:02:15 GMT -5
what's it all about alfie?
its ok to go ahead and curse your head off if that results in a win? imho, we are better than that.
GO 'SADERS
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Post by hc87 on Nov 12, 2019 15:18:28 GMT -5
As a coach myself....yes, not at the collegiate level and basketball not football, I can tell you that the climate has changed greatly with regards to how much a coach can get away with in terms of yelling/behavior at games and practices in just the last 5-10 years or so.
Not saying either side (old school yelling or new school positive reinforcement) is ultimately correct/right but kids more and more are not going to respond to the old school ways.
Believe me, I've had to adapt and it's often not easy.....but that's the culture we are largely in today...guys like Skippy Karam an old school legend as an example, simply could not coach or behave in 2019 the way they did back in the day.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 12, 2019 15:31:19 GMT -5
Some great leaders have seen the use of profanity as crucial to success--George S. Patton, of course, being the prime example. Her's the first two paragraphs from the "Modern War Institute at West Point" article on the subject. At the bottom of the post is a link if you'd like to read the full piece. Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. liked to give it to them double dirty. When he wanted his men to remember something of importance, he laced it with plenty of profanity. As he put it, “You can’t run an army without profanity; and it has to be eloquent profanity. An army without profanity couldn’t fight its way out of a piss-soaked paper bag.” Probably his best known speech, which he delivered with small variations on numerous occasions, was laced with expletives. This speech has become part of American culture, due in great part to George C. Scott’s Oscar-earning portrayal of the general in the 1970 movie, Patton. “The Speech” as Patton’s officers liked to call it, was full of “blood and guts” as well as plenty of cussing for effect. Patton was as much an actor as he was a fine general. He purposely cultivated what he called his “war face.” He was aware that his men were watching him constantly, and he strived to lead by his words as much as he did by his actions. Some officers found his use of obscenities in the speech disappointing, viewing it as unprofessional conduct. Patton’s onetime subordinate and later superior, Gen. Omar Bradley, was critical of his use of vulgar words and phrases. mwi.usma.edu/dropping-bombs-patton-profanity-character/
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