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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 14, 2019 13:39:40 GMT -5
Greg Landry was the UMass QB who became a Detroit Lion. I thought he was from Leominster but he's actually from Nashua NH as ACTP states correctly below
Tom Landry was the Cowboys long time coach, oof course
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Post by lou on Nov 14, 2019 13:49:30 GMT -5
Hey moose ... I didn't quote you, I just recalled something the coach said that I didn't appreciate. Carry on ...
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Post by breezy on Nov 14, 2019 13:53:15 GMT -5
I have a very vivid memory of the Holy Cross - UMass football game during my time as a student. Looking at the archive records, it was November 5, 1966.
Holy Cross dominated the first three quarters of the game and built a 16-0 lead. Then, in the 4th quarter, UMass -- spearheaded by QB Greg Landry -- came alive. UMass drove down the field, scored a TD and added a 2-point conversion. Then, UMass got the ball back and Landry again led the Minutemen on a drive down the field to score a TD. Fortunately, HC stiffened and the 2-point conversion try failed. Final score: HC 16, UMass 14.
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Post by moose1970 on Nov 14, 2019 14:08:40 GMT -5
Hey moose ... I didn't quote you, I just recalled something the coach said that I didn't appreciate. Carry on ... for what its worth i didn't like it either. in fact, i don't think that i like anything about that "game"!!!
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Post by HC16 on Nov 14, 2019 14:17:57 GMT -5
put simply, when your team is behind you run a hurry up style offense to try to score and get back in the game. that is called "playing a football game" when your team is ahead is when you slow down your offense to use up the clock and keep the other team's offense off the field. so answer this, why would our offense run down the game clock when we are behind (other than for the reason i already stated, i.e. let's get the hell out of here) How about the coaches think their best chance to win the game is to maximize how long you have the ball, minimize your opponents possessions, and bet your defense does enough to win you the game. See Super Bowl 25 where the Giants beat the Bills. I wasn't alive for the game, but I've heard a lot about that game plan, and the TOP seems to bear out the Giants running down the clock, even when behind: Giants 40:33 to 19:27 for the Bills. The problem in these particular games is that our offense didn't execute enough to sustain drives and, more importantly, score points. Will we ever do enough, maybe, maybe not, but that's why the game isn't played on paper. The Citadel had no right beating Georgia Tech this year on paper, but they managed it.
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Post by hchoops on Nov 14, 2019 14:18:04 GMT -5
I have a very vivid memory of the Holy Cross - UMass football game during my time as a student. Looking at the archive records, it was November 5, 1966. Holy Cross dominated the first three quarters of the game and built a 16-0 lead. Then, in the 4th quarter, UMass -- spearheaded by QB Greg Landry -- came alive. UMass drove down the field, scored a TD and added a 2-point conversion. Then, UMass got the ball back and Landry again led the Minutemen on a drive down the field to score a TD. Fortunately, HC stiffened and the 2-point conversion try failed. Final score: HC 16, UMass 14. One of 6 wins that season for a 6-3-1 record. Speaking of BC that season culminated with one of, if not the most, exciting endings in-the long history. 32-26. Lentz to Kimener
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Nov 14, 2019 14:31:24 GMT -5
Greg Landry was the UMass QB who became a Detroit Lion. I think he was from Leominster. Tom Landry was the Cowboys long time coach, oof course Greg Landry was from Nashua. Dave Palazzi was the real good UMass QB in the mid-80's from Leominster. He's now the AD at Leominster HS
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Post by beaven302 on Nov 14, 2019 14:42:14 GMT -5
I have a very vivid memory of the Holy Cross - UMass football game during my time as a student. Looking at the archive records, it was November 5, 1966. Holy Cross dominated the first three quarters of the game and built a 16-0 lead. Then, in the 4th quarter, UMass -- spearheaded by QB Greg Landry -- came alive. UMass drove down the field, scored a TD and added a 2-point conversion. Then, UMass got the ball back and Landry again led the Minutemen on a drive down the field to score a TD. Fortunately, HC stiffened and the 2-point conversion try failed. Final score: HC 16, UMass 14. I remember that game very well. It was parents weekend and the visiting "old folks" were treated to great weather. If I recall correctly, It was Mike Kaminski's field goals that helped save the day for HC. As for the '66 season in general, it had several cliff-hangers: In addition to UMass, there were Dartmouth (which missed a 2 pt. conversion), a tough tie at Colgate, BU (victory saved by a major goal line stand), and of course the epic win over BC.
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Post by moose1970 on Nov 14, 2019 14:47:33 GMT -5
put simply, when your team is behind you run a hurry up style offense to try to score and get back in the game. that is called "playing a football game" when your team is ahead is when you slow down your offense to use up the clock and keep the other team's offense off the field. so answer this, why would our offense run down the game clock when we are behind (other than for the reason i already stated, i.e. let's get the hell out of here) How about the coaches think their best chance to win the game is to maximize how long you have the ball, minimize your opponents possessions, and bet your defense does enough to win you the game. See Super Bowl 25 where the Giants beat the Bills. I wasn't alive for the game, but I've heard a lot about that game plan, and the TOP seems to bear out the Giants running down the clock, even when behind: Giants 40:33 to 19:27 for the Bills. The problem in these particular games is that our offense didn't execute enough to sustain drives and, more importantly, score points. Will we ever do enough, maybe, maybe not, but that's why the game isn't played on paper. The Citadel had no right beating Georgia Tech this year on paper, but they managed it. i appreciate your comment but help me out here. if you are behind in the score you need to score more points to catch up and win the game, right? So, S.B. 25 the giants beat the bills. at the end of the game did the giants slow down their offense before scoring the go ahead points so that the bills did not have time to drive for the winning score? TOP stats are interesting for purists but the scoreboard is what counts. The Citadel had no right beating Georgia Tech this year on paper, but they managed it.yes, upset wins do happen. that's why they play the game. what's your point here?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 14, 2019 15:31:10 GMT -5
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Post by hc87 on Nov 14, 2019 15:35:09 GMT -5
As for FBS games, this was probably as hard as it will get for HC in the sense that they played 2 fairly strong FBS programs in Navy and Syracuse with a still revamping program. Moving forward, putting on my AD Hat, the next go around of 12-game schedules in 2024 and 2025, I hope if we do play 2 FBS games those years it will be a little less taxing, something like Army and UMass etc. The BC game is the BC game...it is what it is, we really haven't been on their level football wise since the 1960s....we lost mostly in blowout fashion from 1970-1986 but there were a couple W's and decent games in that era. I hope we continue to play them every few years moving forward....and, yes, I say this as a guy in his mid-50s who doesn't have to play against BC .
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 14, 2019 15:52:17 GMT -5
So, Moose, are you for or agin playing BC in football every 2-3 years? "Former" arch-rival and all?
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Post by hchoops on Nov 14, 2019 16:21:24 GMT -5
I have a very vivid memory of the Holy Cross - UMass football game during my time as a student. Looking at the archive records, it was November 5, 1966. Holy Cross dominated the first three quarters of the game and built a 16-0 lead. Then, in the 4th quarter, UMass -- spearheaded by QB Greg Landry -- came alive. UMass drove down the field, scored a TD and added a 2-point conversion. Then, UMass got the ball back and Landry again led the Minutemen on a drive down the field to score a TD. Fortunately, HC stiffened and the 2-point conversion try failed. Final score: HC 16, UMass 14. One of 6 wins that season for a 6-3-1 record. Speaking of BC that season culminated with one of, if not the most, exciting endings in-the long history. 32-26. Lentz to Kimener I watched the great LSU win over Alabama last Saturday and saw the LSU QB Barrow make the key plays at the end. Once or twice he ran a reverse, sometimes called a blind reverse, which either was called or he called just a sweep that the qb did not hand off to the rb. In 1964 and 1966 HC QB Jack Lentz ran the same play, but calling the sweep to Bob Lawson. The entire O line and FB Ralph Lilore went in the direction of Lawson. Jack would not hand it off, but rather hid the ball on his hip and often ran untouched in the opposite direction, sometimes for a TD.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 14, 2019 16:25:23 GMT -5
That was fun to see!
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 14, 2019 16:29:42 GMT -5
One of 6 wins that season for a 6-3-1 record. Speaking of BC that season culminated with one of, if not the most, exciting endings in-the long history. 32-26. Lentz to Kimener I watched the great LSU win over Alabama last Saturday and saw the LSU QB Barrow make the key plays at the end. Once or twice he ran a reverse, sometimes called a blind reverse, which either was called or he called just a sweep that the qb did not hand off to the rb. In 1964 and 1966 HC QB Jack Lentz ran the same play, but calling the sweep to Bob Lawson. The entire O line and FB Ralph Lilore went in the direction of Lawson. Jack would not hand it off, but rather hid the ball on his hip and often ran untouched in the opposite direction, sometimes for a TD. We always called that a “bootleg” with the QB hiding the ball behind his leg as you note. The master par excellence of that was Fran Tarkenton on the Giants—he used it many times. Rex Kern on TOSU was a college QB who excelled at sleight of hand with the ball.
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Post by moose1970 on Nov 14, 2019 16:31:53 GMT -5
So, Moose, are you for or agin playing BC in football every 2-3 years? "Former" arch-rival and all? do you really need to ask? ok then: Football game plan v BC, Syracuse 1- just try not to get injured (run the game clock down): 2- grab the money and run; You call this a "game" my question: where am i wrong here? The BC football game once meant something even if we rarely won (when we did it was oh so sweet) the current version is like putting lipstick on a pig.
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Post by hchoops on Nov 14, 2019 16:35:35 GMT -5
I watched the great LSU win over Alabama last Saturday and saw the LSU QB Barrow make the key plays at the end. Once or twice he ran a reverse, sometimes called a blind reverse, which either was called or he called just a sweep that the qb did not hand off to the rb. In 1964 and 1966 HC QB Jack Lentz ran the same play, but calling the sweep to Bob Lawson. The entire O line and FB Ralph Lilore went in the direction of Lawson. Jack would not hand it off, but rather hid the ball on his hip and often ran untouched in the opposite direction, sometimes for a TD. We always called that a “bootleg” with the QB hiding the ball behind his leg as you note. The master par excellence of that was Fran Tarkenton on the Giants—he used it many times. I also saw Tark. Unbiased, I will stay with Jack as the master.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 14, 2019 16:37:12 GMT -5
You seem to believe the "current version" will stagnate. I see the HC program as moving up. I saw better play against Navy and Syracuse then I saw against BC (except , oof course,for the two blocked kicks that led to HC scores). That is only after one year (with two recruiting classes). Give this team two more recruiting. classes and two more years to improve and who knows how competitive the game might be (even if I do not expect a win).
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Post by rf1 on Nov 14, 2019 16:42:28 GMT -5
I think UConn has a better chance of making it because they have a stadium. McGuirk is rinky dink even with the money they spent on it the last 10 years or so. No one good or in a big conference (or both) will ever play there. I always thought that was Umass' big blunder in all of this. And being a tenant in Gillette only cuts it for special events, the school is 100 miles (and not an easy 100 miles when you get off the Pike) away. If we were talking about UMass Boston or UMass Dartmouth playing there it might have worked.
A UConn stadium that is some 30 miles off its campus. Add in that it will soon be without a conference by choice. That decision will soon surely make the football situation that much worse.
Since the lopsided UMass scores were posted, might as well list the UConn results for comparison:
UConn 2-8 Outscored YTD 406 to 186
2019 Game Results:
UConn 24 Wagner (FCS/1AA) 21 UConn 21 Illinois 31 UConn 3 Indiana 38 UConn 22 South Florida 48 UConn 7 Tulane 49 UConn 17 Houston 24 UConn 56 UMass 35 UConn 10 Navy 56 UConn 3 Cincinnati 48
The Huskies football team has been outscored 104-13 in just the last two weeks.
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Post by CHC8485 on Nov 14, 2019 17:01:48 GMT -5
How about the coaches think their best chance to win the game is to maximize how long you have the ball, minimize your opponents possessions, and bet your defense does enough to win you the game. See Super Bowl 25 where the Giants beat the Bills. I wasn't alive for the game, but I've heard a lot about that game plan, and the TOP seems to bear out the Giants running down the clock, even when behind: Giants 40:33 to 19:27 for the Bills. The problem in these particular games is that our offense didn't execute enough to sustain drives and, more importantly, score points. Will we ever do enough, maybe, maybe not, but that's why the game isn't played on paper. The Citadel had no right beating Georgia Tech this year on paper, but they managed it. i appreciate your comment but help me out here. if you are behind in the score you need to score more points to catch up and win the game, right? So, S.B. 25 the giants beat the bills. at the end of the game did the giants slow down their offense before scoring the go ahead points so that the bills did not have time to drive for the winning score? TOP stats are interesting for purists but the scoreboard is what counts. The Citadel had no right beating Georgia Tech this year on paper, but they managed it.yes, upset wins do happen. that's why they play the game. what's your point here? Ummm, yes. Giants were trailing at halftime 12 - 9 and opened the second half with a long 75 yard 14-15 play drive to go ahead. Took more that 9 minutes off the clock. Buffalo scored a TD early in the 4th Q to go ahead 19 - 17. Giants went on another long 14-15 play 75 yard drive to kick the go ahead field goal. Took about 7:30 off the clock. Only time the Giants "abandoned" their running, short pass ball possession game was when the got the ball with a little under 4 minutes left in the first quarter, down 12 - 3. But they did possess the ball for almost all of the remaining in the first half and scored a TD. Clearly HC vs BC or Syracuse is not identical to the Giants vs. the Bills, but the strategy is the same when you are an underdog to a more talented team - limit possessions of the more talented team, to try to stay close and take advantage of your opportunities when presented. And you do it even if you're behind by a couple of scores becasue you don't know when the breaks will present themselves. And if you're down 5 scores with 10 minutes left - there's plenty to learn about yourself trying to execute your plan. It may only give you a 1% chance of a win in HC's case, but if so, you're telling me there's a chance.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 14, 2019 17:12:54 GMT -5
"Unbiased?" Yeah, a classmate who had a nice but brief career as safety with the Broncos vs. a long tenured NFL QB. [That said, I agree with you but I will at least admit I wear purple tinted glasses]
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Post by moose1970 on Nov 14, 2019 17:18:52 GMT -5
You seem to believe the "current version" will stagnate. I see the HC program as moving up. I saw better play against Navy and Syracuse then I saw against BC (except , oof course,for the two blocked kicks that led to HC scores). That is only after one year (with two recruiting classes). Give this team two more recruiting. classes and two more years to improve and who knows how competitive the game might be (even if I do not expect a win). so where do you get those rose colored glasses? btw, i do not equate Navy football with BC or Syracuse and believe that we can compete with and beat Navy from time to time. again, i will be more than happy to eat my words and celebrate a win v BC or Syracuse but i want to see us play competitive football before i die.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 14, 2019 17:52:56 GMT -5
I'd be willing to bet Syracuse was a one and done and won't see them again in the next 10 years. Likely focus on FBS teams like UMass, UConn, Army, Buffalo and maybe Navy. We'll leave Syracuse to Colgate. Oh, yeah, BC periodically on our schedule for tradition.
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Post by timholycross on Nov 14, 2019 18:03:02 GMT -5
put simply, when your team is behind you run a hurry up style offense to try to score and get back in the game. that is called "playing a football game" when your team is ahead is when you slow down your offense to use up the clock and keep the other team's offense off the field. so answer this, why would our offense run down the game clock when we are behind (other than for the reason i already stated, i.e. let's get the hell out of here) How about the coaches think their best chance to win the game is to maximize how long you have the ball, minimize your opponents possessions, and bet your defense does enough to win you the game. See Super Bowl 25 where the Giants beat the Bills. I wasn't alive for the game, but I've heard a lot about that game plan, and the TOP seems to bear out the Giants running down the clock, even when behind: Giants 40:33 to 19:27 for the Bills. The problem in these particular games is that our offense didn't execute enough to sustain drives and, more importantly, score points. Will we ever do enough, maybe, maybe not, but that's why the game isn't played on paper. The Citadel had no right beating Georgia Tech this year on paper, but they managed it. Actually I've been wondering why BC, with its potent running attack (and a rather shaky backup QB forced to play because the starter suffered an ACL tear) and a terrible defense doesn't try and shorten the game; instead they race to the line of scrimmage and extend it
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Post by HC16 on Nov 14, 2019 18:10:23 GMT -5
i appreciate your comment but help me out here. if you are behind in the score you need to score more points to catch up and win the game, right? So, S.B. 25 the giants beat the bills. at the end of the game did the giants slow down their offense before scoring the go ahead points so that the bills did not have time to drive for the winning score? TOP stats are interesting for purists but the scoreboard is what counts. The Citadel had no right beating Georgia Tech this year on paper, but they managed it.yes, upset wins do happen. that's why they play the game. what's your point here? Ummm, yes. Giants were trailing at halftime 12 - 9 and opened the second half with a long 75 yard 14-15 play drive to go ahead. Took more that 9 minutes off the clock. Buffalo scored a TD early in the 4th Q to go ahead 19 - 17. Giants went on another long 14-15 play 75 yard drive to kick the go ahead field goal. Took about 7:30 off the clock. Only time the Giants "abandoned" their running, short pass ball possession game was when the got the ball with a little under 4 minutes left in the first quarter, down 12 - 3. But they did possess the ball for almost all of the remaining in the first half and scored a TD. Clearly HC vs BC or Syracuse is not identical to the Giants vs. the Bills, but the strategy is the same when you are an underdog to a more talented team - limit possessions of the more talented team, to try to stay close and take advantage of your opportunities when presented. And you do it even if you're behind by a couple of scores becasue you don't know when the breaks will present themselves. And if you're down 5 scores with 10 minutes left - there's plenty to learn about yourself trying to execute your plan.
It may only give you a 1% chance of a win in HC's case, but if so, you're telling me there's a chance.The bolded section basically covers my point regarding Super Bowl 25. It's just harder to be that detailed when typing on your phone at a lunch break. My point regarding Citadel vs Georgia Tech is that that's an example of why you play the type of game you reject as "not a game". It's a mid-level FCS team vs a mediocre to bad ACC team (depending on the year). The FCS team goes in and gives their best shot to win (even if that is run the ball and run down the clock every play) and tries to pull off the upset. Sure, 95% of the time the ACC team will win, usually handily. That's why they even bother scheduling the game. However, in that 5% of the time where the FCS team wins, a memory to last a lifetime is created for every player, the students on campus at the time, and the alums who follow the program. You and other alumns of the era clearly remember the big upsets from when you were in school, like the upset to end Dartmouth's unbeaten run in '66. This is no different, you're taking your best shot at the "big boys". Even when you lose, the players will always be able to say "I once got to play against Syracuse". I've had several conversations with members of the basketball team about their games against UNC, Syracuse, Kansas, Oregon, etc. They ultimately remember those games as highlights of their career, even when the games were lopsided. It wasn't just some cynical money grab for them, and they're the ones who matter most. Maybe your experience was different. There's nothing wrong with that. However, the reality is that the current athletes enjoy these challenges, even if they're likely to lose.
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