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Post by longsuffering on Nov 14, 2019 18:41:04 GMT -5
I have a very vivid memory of the Holy Cross - UMass football game during my time as a student. Looking at the archive records, it was November 5, 1966. Holy Cross dominated the first three quarters of the game and built a 16-0 lead. Then, in the 4th quarter, UMass -- spearheaded by QB Greg Landry -- came alive. UMass drove down the field, scored a TD and added a 2-point conversion. Then, UMass got the ball back and Landry again led the Minutemen on a drive down the field to score a TD. Fortunately, HC stiffened and the 2-point conversion try failed. Final score: HC 16, UMass 14. Great UMass band. I'll never forget "Stars and Stripes Forever." In September of 2010 HC played a Saturday Twilight game at UMass on a brilliantly sunny day. Because the late afternoon sun was brutal on the HC side, I sat on the UMass side and had a front row seat for the UMass Band's halftime performance. I marveled at the energy of legendary band director George Parks and the show was phenomenal as usual. It turns out it was the last halftime show he led as he died of a heart attack the next week after a show in Cuyahoga Falls, OH. as the band was on the way to play before 110,000 in the "Big House" during the UMass-Michigan game. UMass could schedule top teams for a game or two each year and give them a battle when they were a top FCS program. Perhaps they will again in the future.
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Post by longsuffering on Nov 14, 2019 18:53:15 GMT -5
As usual I agree with Moose. I don't understand how anyone whose team suffered a humiliating 62-14 loss can leave this game smiling. I don't consider this shellacking by a team that indeed pulled back, to be a success. I guess some feel that a 62- 14 loss could be good for recruiting, an opportunity to get slaughtered by a far better team must surely be attractive to potential recruits. Test ourselves as I would do taking a final exam in advanced math at MIT. Certainly, we did not learn anything that we didn't know before. Maybe, some learned that BC had a bit of sportsmanship by keeping its scoring down to 62 points when they could have easily scored 100. It's like me trying to "date" Sharon Stone and come away smiling after that catastrophe. Just an embarrassing waste of time and effort! Well, at least we tried. HA! Obviously, we agree to disagree with respect for each. LoveHC Don't sell yourself short. George Costanza got a date with Marissa Tomei.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 14, 2019 19:36:17 GMT -5
So, Moose, are you for or agin playing BC in football every 2-3 years? "Former" arch-rival and all? do you really need to ask? ok then: Football game plan v BC, Syracuse 1- just try not to get injured (run the game clock down): 2- grab the money and run; You call this a "game" Wrong. Despite our very challenged offense, we were competitive for parts of both the Navy and Syracuse game this year. The defense largely comported themselves well. If the offense had the ability to string some first downs together, the scores would have looked much better. We trailed Navy 17-7 late in the half before a late Navy TD extended it to 24-7. Navy is a Top 25 team this year. Syracuse was 27-3 late in the 3rd. But for a JJ Roberts muffed punt and turnovers in our own end, this may have even been closer. A few years ago, we had UConn beat for much of the game. Was that not fun? Our ones can largely hang with their ones for a while, but our lack of depth will always come back to bite us in these games. It sounds like you'd rather play Merrimack or Sacred Heart than BC?
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 14, 2019 19:38:34 GMT -5
i appreciate your comment but help me out here. if you are behind in the score you need to score more points to catch up and win the game, right? So, S.B. 25 the giants beat the bills. at the end of the game did the giants slow down their offense before scoring the go ahead points so that the bills did not have time to drive for the winning score? TOP stats are interesting for purists but the scoreboard is what counts. The Citadel had no right beating Georgia Tech this year on paper, but they managed it.yes, upset wins do happen. that's why they play the game. what's your point here? the strategy is the same when you are an underdog to a more talented team - limit possessions of the more talented team, to try to stay close and take advantage of your opportunities when presented. The Ralph Willard special against teams with much more talent. Fewer possessions in the game for the superior team gives them fewer opportunities to score.
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Post by timholycross on Nov 14, 2019 20:00:28 GMT -5
Great UMass band. I'll never forget "Stars and Stripes Forever." In September of 2010 HC played a Saturday Twilight game at UMass on a brilliantly sunny day. Because the late afternoon sun was brutal on the HC side, I sat on the UMass side and had a front row seat for the UMass Band's halftime performance. I marveled at the energy of legendary band director George Parks and the show was phenomenal as usual. It turns out it was the last halftime show he led as he died of a heart attack the next week after a show in Cuyahoga Falls, OH. as the band was on the way to play before 110,000 in the "Big House" during the UMass-Michigan game. UMass could schedule top teams for a game or two each year and give them a battle when they were a top FCS program. Perhaps they will again in the future. If Umass dropped football it would behoove Marcus Blossom to offer to bus their band to Worcester any time they wanted to come here.
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Post by moose1970 on Nov 14, 2019 20:07:46 GMT -5
I'd be willing to bet Syracuse was a one and done and won't see them again in the next 10 years. Likely focus on FBS teams like UMass, UConn, Army, Buffalo and maybe Navy. We'll leave Syracuse to Colgate. Oh, yeah, BC periodically on our schedule for tradition. I'd be willing to bet Syracuse was a one and done and won't see them again in the next 10 years. When they announced resumption of football v BC, Syracuse i recall it was a resumption of the traditional "rivalry". "one and done" v syracuse is a resumption of a rivalry??? how do we lure top recruits when we don't play them again for 10+ yrs? hard to figure out which 6, 7 yr olds should be offered an ncaa athletic grant in football? but you guys have it all figured out so nothing to worry about!
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 14, 2019 20:50:05 GMT -5
Come on. Your recollection is very different than mine. BC might have been labeled "a resumption of the traditional 'rivalry'," but Syracuse was not ever described that way. Syracuse was pretty much a money game from the get-go because you may recall when you were on the playing field, playing Syracuse was always a lopsided affair and we did not play them every year. BC was a true rival that we played every year until . . . . wait for it . . . . Fr. Brooks pulled the plug on the series. You can argue the merits of him doing that but it was a true rivalry, one of the longest and storied rivalries in the country up there with Army-Navy, Harvard-Yale, Lafayette-Lehigh (I added that one just for grins and giggles). I agree with you, we shouldn't be playing Syracuse in football - ever. Not even sure playing them in basketball is worth it though we would be more competitive. I don't like Syracuse or their fans and I didn't much like living there for 9 long winters. Pretty much no redeeming value. [whew! that felt good getting that off my chest! ] So, my question to you was, are you against playing BC every 2 or 3 years? I never asked about playing Syracuse.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Nov 14, 2019 20:53:13 GMT -5
fbschedules.com/ncaa/syracuse/Based on the information in the link above, the Syracuse future schedule may or may not include HC. Currently we are not on the published future schedules. HC success over the next two seasons may determine if the 2019 game was a one time occurrence for the next ten years.
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Post by moose1970 on Nov 14, 2019 20:53:25 GMT -5
do you really need to ask? ok then: Football game plan v BC, Syracuse 1- just try not to get injured (run the game clock down): 2- grab the money and run; You call this a "game" Wrong. Despite our very challenged offense, we were competitive for parts of both the Navy and Syracuse game this year. The defense largely comported themselves well. If the offense had the ability to string some first downs together, the scores would have looked much better. We trailed Navy 17-7 late in the half before a late Navy TD extended it to 24-7. Navy is a Top 25 team this year. Syracuse was 27-3 late in the 3rd. But for a JJ Roberts muffed punt and turnovers in our own end, this may have even been closer. A few years ago, we had UConn beat for much of the game. Was that not fun? Our ones can largely hang with their ones for a while, but our lack of depth will always come back to bite us in these games. It sounds like you'd rather play Merrimack or Sacred Heart than BC? I did not see either the Navy or Syracuse games this year. I did watch the 2018 BC game on my lap top. I take your observations of how we played at face value but being down 27-3 late in the 3rd quarter does not say much for being competitive esp with a "challenged offense". I also read that Syracuse fans later questioned why they played this "game" so late in the season. the game did nothing for syracuse football. basically just a waste of time, a virtual bye. to me your comments on the syracuse game are that if we played a better game who knows what could have happened. ok i will give you that (for what its worth). btw, you are wrong. no interest in holy cross football playing merrimack, sacred heart or little sisters of the poor. nor have i heard of anyone talking of that as a possibility except for fear mongers here on crossport.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 14, 2019 21:02:19 GMT -5
The Syracuse game was in either the third or fourth week of the season. Not very late. Typical time frame for an OOC game.
The game didn't do anything for Syracuse. If they were better this year, this win would have helped them become bowl eligible.
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Post by Xmassader on Nov 14, 2019 21:05:07 GMT -5
Breezy, beaven 302 and hchoops-Thanks for the memories of the ‘66 Parents’ Weekend game vs. UMass. IIRC, one of the two excellent UMass tight ends (Milt Morin, Bob Mears) dropped an easy two point extra point catch in the end zone that would have tied the game. I think one or both went on to play in the NFL like Landry.
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Post by hchoops on Nov 14, 2019 21:09:58 GMT -5
He was probably intimidated by safety Tom Kelly
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Post by moose1970 on Nov 14, 2019 21:26:22 GMT -5
Come on. Your recollection is very different than mine. BC might have been labeled "a resumption of the traditional 'rivalry'," but Syracuse was not ever described that way. Syracuse was pretty much a money game from the get-go because you may recall when you were on the playing field, playing Syracuse was always a lopsided affair and we did not play them every year. BC was a true rival that we played every year until . . . . wait for it . . . . Fr. Brooks pulled the plug on the series. You can argue the merits of him doing that but it was a true rivalry, one of the longest and storied rivalries in the country up there with Army-Navy, Harvard-Yale, Lafayette-Lehigh (I added that one just for grins and giggles). I agree with you, we shouldn't be playing Syracuse in football - ever. Not even sure playing them in basketball is worth it though we would be more competitive. I don't like Syracuse or their fans and I didn't much like living there for 9 long winters. Pretty much no redeeming value. [whew! that felt good getting that off my chest! ] So, my question to you was, are you against playing BC every 2 or 3 years? I never asked about playing Syracuse.
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Post by moose1970 on Nov 14, 2019 21:39:39 GMT -5
"So, my question to you was, are you against playing BC every 2 or 3 years?" (in football)
yes, even more so than syracuse. although we usually lost we gave BC a game. it was not over in the first 6 minutes of the game. i see no change in the 2018 results. no light at the end of that tunnel.
just follow the money. holy cross will never ante up. nor should it.
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Post by joe on Nov 15, 2019 7:39:54 GMT -5
Why does this guy constantly take jabs at HC? You’re comparing apples and oranges here. UMass plays against BCS teams because it’s a BCS school now and that’s the schedule. HC plays BCS schools as an occasional event for totally different reasons. I suspect HC as a football school is just obscure enough to the general population that he is able to use it as a means of supporting just about every point he tries to make. Kind of of like using an out of print book as a source for a research paper.
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Post by trimster on Nov 15, 2019 8:16:46 GMT -5
Breezy, beaven 302 and hchoops-Thanks for the memories of the ‘66 Parents’ Weekend game vs. UMass. IIRC, one of the two excellent UMass tight ends (Milt Morin, Bob Mears) dropped an easy two point extra point catch in the end zone that would have tied the game. I think one or both went on to play in the NFL like Landry. I believe Morin played many years with the Cleveland Browns. Not sure if Mears played in the NFL but I do remember he was from Leominster, Ma.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 15, 2019 9:54:39 GMT -5
Morin, born in Leominster, played 10 years with the Cleveland Browns. There's no record of Mears playing in the NFL
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Post by moose1970 on Nov 15, 2019 10:44:48 GMT -5
Come on. Your recollection is very different than mine. BC might have been labeled "a resumption of the traditional 'rivalry'," but Syracuse was not ever described that way. Syracuse was pretty much a money game from the get-go because you may recall when you were on the playing field, playing Syracuse was always a lopsided affair and we did not play them every year. BC was a true rival that we played every year until . . . . wait for it . . . . Fr. Brooks pulled the plug on the series. You can argue the merits of him doing that but it was a true rivalry, one of the longest and storied rivalries in the country up there with Army-Navy, Harvard-Yale, Lafayette-Lehigh (I added that one just for grins and giggles). I agree with you, we shouldn't be playing Syracuse in football - ever. Not even sure playing them in basketball is worth it though we would be more competitive. I don't like Syracuse or their fans and I didn't much like living there for 9 long winters. Pretty much no redeeming value. [whew! that felt good getting that off my chest! ] So, my question to you was, are you against playing BC every 2 or 3 years? I never asked about playing Syracuse.
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Post by moose1970 on Nov 15, 2019 10:52:22 GMT -5
"Syracuse was always a lopsided affair" yes, but it was a real football game.
" and we did not play them every year." they were on our schedule each of the 4 years we were at holy cross, '66-'69 seasons. we lost 3 straight times. it probably would have been 4 times except for hepatitis lost season '69.
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Post by moose1970 on Nov 15, 2019 11:19:18 GMT -5
Ummm, yes. Giants were trailing at halftime 12 - 9 and opened the second half with a long 75 yard 14-15 play drive to go ahead. Took more that 9 minutes off the clock. Buffalo scored a TD early in the 4th Q to go ahead 19 - 17. Giants went on another long 14-15 play 75 yard drive to kick the go ahead field goal. Took about 7:30 off the clock. Only time the Giants "abandoned" their running, short pass ball possession game was when the got the ball with a little under 4 minutes left in the first quarter, down 12 - 3. But they did possess the ball for almost all of the remaining in the first half and scored a TD. Clearly HC vs BC or Syracuse is not identical to the Giants vs. the Bills, but the strategy is the same when you are an underdog to a more talented team - limit possessions of the more talented team, to try to stay close and take advantage of your opportunities when presented. And you do it even if you're behind by a couple of scores becasue you don't know when the breaks will present themselves. And if you're down 5 scores with 10 minutes left - there's plenty to learn about yourself trying to execute your plan.
It may only give you a 1% chance of a win in HC's case, but if so, you're telling me there's a chance.The bolded section basically covers my point regarding Super Bowl 25. It's just harder to be that detailed when typing on your phone at a lunch break. My point regarding Citadel vs Georgia Tech is that that's an example of why you play the type of game you reject as "not a game". It's a mid-level FCS team vs a mediocre to bad ACC team (depending on the year). The FCS team goes in and gives their best shot to win (even if that is run the ball and run down the clock every play) and tries to pull off the upset. Sure, 95% of the time the ACC team will win, usually handily. That's why they even bother scheduling the game. However, in that 5% of the time where the FCS team wins, a memory to last a lifetime is created for every player, the students on campus at the time, and the alums who follow the program. You and other alumns of the era clearly remember the big upsets from when you were in school, like the upset to end Dartmouth's unbeaten run in '66. This is no different, you're taking your best shot at the "big boys". Even when you lose, the players will always be able to say "I once got to play against Syracuse". I've had several conversations with members of the basketball team about their games against UNC, Syracuse, Kansas, Oregon, etc. They ultimately remember those games as highlights of their career, even when the games were lopsided. It wasn't just some cynical money grab for them, and they're the ones who matter most. Maybe your experience was different. There's nothing wrong with that. However, the reality is that the current athletes enjoy these challenges, even if they're likely to lose. "My point regarding Citadel vs Georgia Tech is that that's an example of why you play the type of game you reject as "not a game"." i have no familiarity with the citadel's football program nor am i interested. i do have an interest and passing familiarity with holy cross football. the consensus here appears to be that our current game plan v BC, Syracuse is don't get injured, grab the $ and run. that's not a football game. if holy cross commits the money to up the status of the football program then let's have a go at them. BUT,1- that will not happen; 2- imho, it would be a disastrous mistake.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 15, 2019 11:46:29 GMT -5
I'd guess that our plan is not " don't get injured, grab the $ and run" but, rather, "we've got 11 guys on the field and so do they. Let's show them what we've got and do our best to win this game." Then, when, almost inevitably, we get too far behind to come back we start working the clock and trying to shorten the game. I don't think we give up before the opening kickoff, but I could be wrong
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Post by CHC8485 on Nov 15, 2019 12:45:05 GMT -5
The bolded section basically covers my point regarding Super Bowl 25. It's just harder to be that detailed when typing on your phone at a lunch break. My point regarding Citadel vs Georgia Tech is that that's an example of why you play the type of game you reject as "not a game". It's a mid-level FCS team vs a mediocre to bad ACC team (depending on the year). The FCS team goes in and gives their best shot to win (even if that is run the ball and run down the clock every play) and tries to pull off the upset. Sure, 95% of the time the ACC team will win, usually handily. That's why they even bother scheduling the game. However, in that 5% of the time where the FCS team wins, a memory to last a lifetime is created for every player, the students on campus at the time, and the alums who follow the program. You and other alumns of the era clearly remember the big upsets from when you were in school, like the upset to end Dartmouth's unbeaten run in '66. This is no different, you're taking your best shot at the "big boys". Even when you lose, the players will always be able to say "I once got to play against Syracuse". I've had several conversations with members of the basketball team about their games against UNC, Syracuse, Kansas, Oregon, etc. They ultimately remember those games as highlights of their career, even when the games were lopsided. It wasn't just some cynical money grab for them, and they're the ones who matter most. Maybe your experience was different. There's nothing wrong with that. However, the reality is that the current athletes enjoy these challenges, even if they're likely to lose. "My point regarding Citadel vs Georgia Tech is that that's an example of why you play the type of game you reject as "not a game"." i have no familiarity with the citadel's football program nor am i interested. i do have an interest and passing familiarity with holy cross football. the consensus here appears to be that our current game plan v BC, Syracuse is don't get injured, grab the $ and run. that's not a football game. if holy cross commits the money to up the status of the football program then let's have a go at them. BUT,1- that will not happen; 2- imho, it would be a disastrous mistake. Moose 1. Your current use of the function to quote a post and then post a reply in a separate post is very confusing. You've been here long enough now that you should learn to use the quote function. Click the quote button. Scroll to the bottom of the Create Post window that opens. Click you mouse below the box that has the quote in it. Type your comments relevant to the post. 2. Your opinion of the game plan vs. the BCs & Syracuses of the FBS is hardly consensus here. You posited it and thus far I have seen few agree that that is the game plan - either now or in September when we played Syracuse. There are some who certainly don't like the games because of perceived higher risk of injury or limited chance to win but they hardly think the game plan is avoid injury and get out of town with a check. 3. We get it. You don't like the games. You don't have to. But it's an opinion. Others disagree for reasons just as legitimate as yours. Time to move on. We're playing Fordham, not Syracuse this weekend!
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Post by HC92 on Nov 15, 2019 12:48:23 GMT -5
"My point regarding Citadel vs Georgia Tech is that that's an example of why you play the type of game you reject as "not a game"." i have no familiarity with the citadel's football program nor am i interested. i do have an interest and passing familiarity with holy cross football. the consensus here appears to be that our current game plan v BC, Syracuse is don't get injured, grab the $ and run. that's not a football game. if holy cross commits the money to up the status of the football program then let's have a go at them. BUT,1- that will not happen; 2- imho, it would be a disastrous mistake. Moose 1. Your current use of the function to quote a post and then post a reply in a separate post is very confusing. You've been here long enough now that you should learn to use the quote function. Click the quote button. Scroll to the bottom of the Create Post window that opens. Click you mouse below the box that has the quote in it. Type your comments relevant to the post. 2. Your opinion of the game plan vs. the BCs & Syracuses of the FBS is hardly consensus here. You posited it and thus far I have seen few agree that that is the game plan - either now or in September when we played Syracuse. There are some who certainly don't like the games because of perceived higher risk of injury or limited chance to win but they hardly think the game plan is avoid injury and get out of town with a check. 3. We get it. You don't like the games. You don't have to. But it's an opinion. Others disagree for reasons just as legitimate as yours. Time to move on. We're playing Fordham, not Syracuse this weekend! Okay, but we can still talk about the women’s hoop team playing UConn, right? 😋
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Post by moose1970 on Nov 15, 2019 12:55:21 GMT -5
I'd guess that our plan is not " don't get injured, grab the $ and run" but, rather, "we've got 11 guys on the field and so do they. Let's show them what we've got and do our best to win this game." Then, when, almost inevitably, we get too far behind to come back we start working the clock and trying to shorten the game. I don't think we give up before the opening kickoff, but I could be wrong i mean no disrespect to our players and coaches who did not quit v BC, Syracuse, despite the score. i read the "game plan" here on comments on crossports. Then, when, almost inevitably, we get too far behind...(emphasis added) 2018 BC game (which i watched via laptop) we were out of it half way through the 1st quarter. that was very predictable going into the game. just don't put our teams on the field with no real prospect of playing a game. we've got 11 guys on the field and so do they. or they pull their pants on one leg at a time, etc is smoke & mirrors.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 15, 2019 13:06:23 GMT -5
Suggestion: don’t confuse “predictable” and “almost inevitable” with “metaphysically certain”. I appended “almost” in my original post for that reason,
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