|
Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 21, 2019 23:13:12 GMT -5
Maybe HC should say screw it and go 4th grade flag football. Would that make you happy. What would make me happy is stop playing opponents where we have no likelihood of winning. I'm not talking about a Monmouth. I'm talking about Syracuse, BC, etc. I would disagree with you on this but respect your opinion. Definitely something to be said for putting together a schedule where the majority of the contests represent level competition. However, I do believe that there are rewards for playing above your head. On field learning experience, fan engagement that otherwise wouldn't be there, opportunity for athletes to play in historic venues, the opportunity for the once-in-a-lifetime upset. It's not like we are sending our football teams to Ohio State, Oklahoma, Clemson and Alabama. We're scheduling reasonably local FBS opponents that present a big challenge. Should Willard have backed out of the Duke game in 2006? How about Men's Lacrosse cancelling the series with Harvard where we're like 1-38 all-time? Sending our women's hoops team out to U. of Illinois never should've been allowed to happen!! And then what about NCAA match-ups -- forfeit?? Carmody had no shot at beating Oregon. Why bother flying out to Spokane for that bloodbath? Women's lax against Northwestern in 2006 should've been CANCELLED!!!!
|
|
|
Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 21, 2019 23:18:31 GMT -5
Anecdotally, no one got hurt in the Georgetown-Catholic game like that. Unfortunately, Georgetown was left high and dry by an opponent who dropped the game for a payday, and Georgetown didn't have any takers in week 3, unless they wanted to take two consecutive open weeks and settle for a 10 game slate.
I'd be all in favor of the kind of schedules Holy Cross is able to build because the weak schedule hurt Georgetown down the stretch this year and HC was able to build from its early season games. Realistically, of course, those schools aren't going to schedule a team like Georgetown.
|
|
|
Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 21, 2019 23:23:35 GMT -5
The targeting call against Syracuse could've just as easily happened had we replaced them on the schedule with Catholic University. But anyway I get your point. Given that football in itself is such a violent sport complete with real injury risk, perhaps we shouldn't "waste" one of our 11 games against an opponent we have very little shot to beat. I disagree but I see your point. Question: had we been matched up with JMU or North Dakota State in the FCS playoffs, should we have forfeited or played the games? By your logic, the injury risk would be too great to risk sending the guys out to play a game with an extremely low win probability. Answer: play the game. under your hypo we earned our way into the FCS playoffs. sure we would be the underdog but i don't see JMU(?) or N.D. State in the same class as BC/Syracuse type programs. Sure JMU, N.D. State have played and won v some FBS programs but FBS football is a big tent. The targeting call against Syracuse could've just as easily happened had we replaced them on the schedule with Catholic University. but your argument is that Syracuse would play a cleaner game. do you expect a clean game from Catholic U? You may not SEE JMU or NDSU as in the same class as BC/Syracuse but in reality they are on the same level. NDSU hasn't just beaten FBS teams. They won five straight against the Big X and Big 12 (including 2 Top 25) to the point where no one will play them anymore. A couple years ago, Sagarin had them in the Top 25 of all Division I. Had we beaten Monmouth, you would have seen that JMU is basically on par with both of those teams. With all respect to our team this year, we lose that game 48-0. Would actually have loved to see a JMU/Navy match-up this year.
|
|
|
Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 21, 2019 23:36:05 GMT -5
Anecdotally, no one got hurt in the Georgetown-Catholic game like that. Unfortunately, Georgetown was left high and dry by an opponent who dropped the game for a payday, and Georgetown didn't have any takers in week 3, unless they wanted to take two consecutive open weeks and settle for a 10 game slate. I'd be all in favor of the kind of schedules Holy Cross is able to build because the weak schedule hurt Georgetown down the stretch this year and HC was able to build from its early season games. Realistically, of course, those schools aren't going to schedule a team like Georgetown. Better to have a game like that than no game. I thought it was embarrassing a couple years back when Colgate played a 10-game schedule (not talking about 2018 when they had a game against Furman cancelled b/c of hurricane, this was either '16 or '17). Get a good D2 in there even if a loss will result in some egg in your face. I'm all about fight and competition, too much politics in scheduling. I'd rather lose to Assumption than have an extra bye week. What is it exactly that makes scheduling so hard for Georgetown in particular? I know the Ivies don't really give you the time of the day relative to the rest of the PL but how hard is it to get a date with a MEAC school or other local low-level FCS? Delaware State? Hampton? Howard? VMI? Norfolk State? NC Central? Even a Division II team like a Lock Haven, East Stroudsburg, New Haven, Tiffin, Ohio Dominican etc. Catholic is not only DIII, they're fairly low-level DIII from what I understand. If you look at Division III playoff scores, you'll see how wide the chasm is between the top and the bottom. Salisbury State won their first NCAA game 83-0 against I think SUNY Maritime from my home borough. Mount Union and St. Thomas usually have similar results in their opening playoff games.
|
|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 21, 2019 23:53:20 GMT -5
The belief that a team will incur more injuries against bigger, faster teams is a classic case of "overthinking". The opposing FBS players are only a little bit bigger and a little bit faster--they do not generate a great deal more force that FCS opponents generate.
We've gone through this before. An FBS player who runs a 4.6 40 is running at 17.8 MPH. His FCS counterpart is a step or two slower and runs a 4.8 40, 17.1 MPH. The FBS guys runs all of 4&1/2% faster than the FCS player. FBS players are, on average, no more than 5% heavier than FCS players, are they? So multiply the two factors---10% difference in force--maybe. We see bigger differences between positions than that, e.g. linebackers versus cornerbacks.
Here's one final test--if the size and speed difference was that big a factor every running back under 200 pounds would get injured on every play.
Kalif Raymond is probably one of the 10 lightest and 10 fastest players in the NFL, regularly being tackled by players who outweigh him by 80 pounds or more--yet he seems to be doing well enough.
Let's stop overthinking this one
|
|
|
Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 21, 2019 23:54:52 GMT -5
I’d be most concerned about an injury to a QB in this sort of game v bigger , faster, stronger pass rushes. Reason #73 why the hopelessly overmatched team is generally VERY prudent in play selection (avoiding deep drops in otherwise obvious passing situations, etc.). While I'm not convinced enough to start writing a letter to Derek Blossom suggesting we not allow Considine or Degenhart onto the Alumni Stadium field next year, this is a valid point. A QB will undoubtedly find themselves on the ground or taking hits more often when his O-LINE is overmatched. And while deep drops end up off the table, you are forced to pass more often in general because in these games you end up with a lot of 3rd-and-long situations and because typically FCS teams aren't going to be successful running dives and counters against P5 squads that will stifle the run big time. Hence, a lot of short timing routes and screens.
|
|
|
Post by sarasota on Dec 21, 2019 23:56:51 GMT -5
Mannasota Beach (in Englewood) is my favorite. I'm familiar with the town of Englewood Beach and those beautiful spots along various beaches as one drives up toward Sarasota. Small fish restaurants on the water, watching the pelicans.Also, up from Longboat there is lovely Ana Maria Island, a bit of Old Florida. Stayed at Harrington House a number of times with my late wife for getaway weekends. Your handle brings back many wonderful, special memories of Sarasota and environs. Seems like yesterday. Maybe, that's why I treat you so nicely. HA! LoveHC I know this sounds self serving, but the FLGulf Coast from Englewood/Venice up to Sarasota is Paradise, certainly for retirees. Many of the residents here refer to it unabashedly as Paradise. It has everything except snow skiing. It is quieter, less dense than the FL Atlantic Coast. The icing on the cake is a very vibrant cultural life. Sarasota is called the Cultural Capital of FL. Musically, it has two fine symphony orchestras, lots of jazz, highly rated community theatres, live dramatic, comedy, improv stage shows, world class Ringling Museum of Art, FL State Theatre, excellent opera company, resident ballet company, tons of golf & fishing. Here's the kicker....very modest cost of living, especially housing. Local governments are so much cleaner than what I experienced in MA and NJ. So you get so much more for your state, county tax dollar. Finally, gorgeous Nature all around and a wonderful climate.
|
|
|
Post by sarasota on Dec 22, 2019 0:04:39 GMT -5
I’d be most concerned about an injury to a QB in this sort of game v bigger , faster, stronger pass rushes. Reason #73 why the hopelessly overmatched team is generally VERY prudent in play selection (avoiding deep drops in otherwise obvious passing situations, etc.). While I'm not convinced enough to start writing a letter to Derek Blossom suggesting we not allow Considine or Degenhart onto the Alumni Stadium field next year, this is a valid point. A QB will undoubtedly find themselves on the ground or taking hits more often when his O-LINE is overmatched. And while deep drops end up off the table, you are forced to pass more often in general because in these games you end up with a lot of 3rd-and-long situations and because typically FCS teams aren't going to be successful running dives and counters against P5 squads that will stifle the run big time. Hence, a lot of short timing routes and screens. Marcus?
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Dec 22, 2019 5:41:39 GMT -5
I’d be most concerned about an injury to a QB in this sort of game v bigger , faster, stronger pass rushes. Reason #73 why the hopelessly overmatched team is generally VERY prudent in play selection (avoiding deep drops in otherwise obvious passing situations, etc.). While I'm not convinced enough to start writing a letter to Derek Blossom suggesting we not allow Considine or Degenhart onto the Alumni Stadium field next year, this is a valid point. A QB will undoubtedly find themselves on the ground or taking hits more often when his O-LINE is overmatched. And while deep drops end up off the table, you are forced to pass more often in general because in these games you end up with a lot of 3rd-and-long situations and because typically FCS teams aren't going to be successful running dives and counters against P5 squads that will stifle the run big time. Hence, a lot of short timing routes and screens. Of course. I'm not revealing state secrets here in unwritten blowout strategy, tactics, and etiquette. BC-HC was a good example. The weak team runs and dumps screens/slants/outs (to burn the clock, protect the QB, etc) and the strong team (once they slam the ball in a few times) dials back the blitzes on D and runs a similar offense (to burn the clock, slow the scoring, etc.). Both teams can rotate in their benches (including two or even three QBs). Players give their best efforts within the game plan and personnel substitutions. Both coaches and most fans know the deal. Very different from a competitive game and a bit unwatchable for some.
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Dec 22, 2019 7:08:28 GMT -5
This thread seems to have run its course. No minds have been changed. No insights into the actual 2020 schedule.
|
|
|
Post by gks on Dec 22, 2019 8:14:17 GMT -5
Anecdotally, no one got hurt in the Georgetown-Catholic game like that. Unfortunately, Georgetown was left high and dry by an opponent who dropped the game for a payday, and Georgetown didn't have any takers in week 3, unless they wanted to take two consecutive open weeks and settle for a 10 game slate. I'd be all in favor of the kind of schedules Holy Cross is able to build because the weak schedule hurt Georgetown down the stretch this year and HC was able to build from its early season games. Realistically, of course, those schools aren't going to schedule a team like Georgetown. Isn't Georgetown/Catholic a three game series? (including 2019)
|
|
|
Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 22, 2019 8:30:23 GMT -5
2020 schedule - Does Stetson have an opening? Need to schedule someone in sota's area so he doesn't disappear from the board again for 6 months.
|
|
|
Post by HC92 on Dec 22, 2019 9:04:18 GMT -5
If NDSU wins again this year, that will be 8 of the last 9 national titles.
|
|
|
Post by hc2020 on Dec 22, 2019 9:13:05 GMT -5
I’m curious: What is the farthest HC football has traveled for a regular season game in recent memory outside of PL games?
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Dec 22, 2019 9:40:47 GMT -5
Under Dan Allen made 2-3 trips to California.
Unfortunately, no trips to Hawaii.
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Dec 22, 2019 10:15:23 GMT -5
For the record, Dan Allen took the team to:
10/30/99 St. Mary's (CA) - lost 28-26
10/12/02 St. Mary's (CA) - won 24-22
9/27/03 San Diego (CA - obviously!) - lost 46-45 in double OT
All close games!!
Tom Gilmore team:
9/11/04 San Diego (finally at home) - lost 37-31
TG said "no mas" to California trips!
|
|
|
Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 22, 2019 10:32:12 GMT -5
Obviously not as far as California but I believe we traveled to Florida International either late Allen-era or early Gilmore-era.
Both FIU and FAU spent a couple years as I-AA Big South members before moving up to I-A.
Colgate actually played and beat FAU in the I-AA semis in 2003.
Other than that, Duffer went down to William & Mary in the late 1980's. W&M was originally supposed to join the PL bu5 ultimately backed out.
|
|
|
Post by timholycross on Dec 22, 2019 10:33:10 GMT -5
I never heard the story that he wanted to eliminate scholarships and then backed off. I only was aware he wanted to eliminate them and did. Any documentation of this stutter step? ok, correct me if i'm wrong ( as if i need to say that) i recall spring semester 1970 that all NCAA athletic grants were eliminated for incoming freshmen. that decision was reversed before it could take effect. You are correct and it either directly or indirectly torpedoed Jack Donahue's last two recruiting classes which were clearly inferior to his prior efforts. (The Yankee Conference fling hurt as well)
|
|
|
Post by timholycross on Dec 22, 2019 11:08:37 GMT -5
Obviously not as far as California but I believe we traveled to Florida International either late Allen-era or early Gilmore-era. Both FIU and FAU spent a couple years as I-AA Big South members before moving up to I-A. Colgate actually played and beat FAU in the I-AA semis in 2003. Other than that, Duffer went down to William & Mary in the late 1980's. W&M was originally supposed to join the PL bu5 ultimately backed out. maybe it was different in the mm67 era, but my experience with both good and bad Dartmouth teams is that they don't travel well at all...a good road game for HC but a so so home game. Same with Brown.
|
|
|
Post by breezy on Dec 22, 2019 11:16:01 GMT -5
On November 16, 1991, Holy Cross defeated Fordham, 24-19, in a game played in Limerick, Ireland.
|
|
|
Post by timholycross on Dec 22, 2019 11:19:17 GMT -5
On November 16, 1991, Holy Cross defeated Fordham, 24-19, in a game played in Limerick, Ireland. Dont forget the Bermuda Bowl too, although clearly California is further than that.
|
|
|
Post by moose1970 on Dec 22, 2019 12:03:32 GMT -5
Maybe HC should say screw it and go 4th grade flag football. Would that make you happy. would that be coed 4th grade flag football???
|
|
|
Post by moose1970 on Dec 22, 2019 12:50:27 GMT -5
Answer: play the game. under your hypo we earned our way into the FCS playoffs. sure we would be the underdog but i don't see JMU(?) or N.D. State in the same class as BC/Syracuse type programs. Sure JMU, N.D. State have played and won v some FBS programs but FBS football is a big tent. The targeting call against Syracuse could've just as easily happened had we replaced them on the schedule with Catholic University. but your argument is that Syracuse would play a cleaner game. do you expect a clean game from Catholic U? You may not SEE JMU or NDSU as in the same class as BC/Syracuse but in reality they are on the same level. NDSU hasn't just beaten FBS teams. They won five straight against the Big X and Big 12 (including 2 Top 25) to the point where no one will play them anymore. A couple years ago, Sagarin had them in the Top 25 of all Division I. Had we beaten Monmouth, you would have seen that JMU is basically on par with both of those teams. With all respect to our team this year, we lose that game 48-0. Would actually have loved to see a JMU/Navy match-up this year. i appreciate your comments and am willing to learn (imho this is what crossports is all about). several thoughts come to mind in response to your comments but basically this: 1- HC would need to increase its financial commitment drastically to compete with top level FBS football programs. that will not and should not happen. 2- as previously stated, playing our year end rivalry game v BC was always special. The 2 football programs have since gone in opposite directions and will not be competitive again without a major financial commitment (see #1 above) some years ago U of San Francisco (USF), a jesuit school, surprised everyone by fielding a top rated basketball team briefly ranked #!. USF alumni were proud and excited over the sudden success of the basketball program on a national level. some alumni wanted to keep the success going and stepped in to "help" the predictable result was NCAA sanctions and a decision by the USF jesuit president to terminate the basketball program. USF has since resumed basketball and the lesson has been learned. besides being physical/violent on the field major college football is BIG business ($$$) and cut throat. you have to be able to compete both on and off the field. Holy Cross does not need that. GO 'SADERS!!!
|
|
|
Post by sarasota on Dec 22, 2019 16:32:06 GMT -5
2020 schedule - Does Stetson have an opening? Need to schedule someone in sota's area so he doesn't disappear from the board again for 6 months. HC Women Bball playing at North Florida and Stetson next weekend. Saw Women at Univ FL and Bethune Cookman in recent years. Wish Men would play in FL every year. Maybe with HCBN's history in FL that will happen.
|
|
|
Post by Ignutz on Dec 22, 2019 17:06:18 GMT -5
If NDSU wins again this year, that will be 8 of the last 9 national titles. If they had any (foot)balls, they’d move up to FBS - like Appalachian St., Georgia Southern and others.
|
|