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Post by longsuffering on Jan 18, 2020 9:01:11 GMT -5
Good news. Copeland is still listed on the roster this morning.
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Post by timholycross on Jan 18, 2020 9:25:47 GMT -5
Let's be frank here.
A difficult call- further embarrassment to the program (if he left) versus having someone on the roster that, due to health and/or personal reasons, cannot contribute on the court.
My vote is I'd rather he stayed and possibly got back on the court. We've had Lovisolo (yes, walk on) and Lowder leave. Another guy out the door is not a good thing.
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Post by efg72 on Jan 18, 2020 9:29:20 GMT -5
It certainly would add a player who can help defensively
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Post by trimster on Jan 18, 2020 9:51:41 GMT -5
Let's be frank here. A difficult call- further embarrassment to the program (if he left) versus having someone on the roster that, due to health and/or personal reasons, cannot contribute on the court. My vote is I'd rather he stayed and possibly got back on the court. We've had Lovisolo (yes, walk on) and Lowder leave. Another guy out the door is not a good thing. It is not unusual to see a lot of player movement when there is a coaching change. Another excellent academic school, Bill & Mary, had multiple transfers after a Coaching change last spring. There was actually quite an exodus but despite all of the upheaval, the boys from Williamsburg are having a very good season.
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 18, 2020 10:00:52 GMT -5
Last year Coach Carm missed some games for personal reasons and it was perfectly understandable and supported. When Coach Nelson announces a player is absent for personal reasons this year it could be perfectly understandable but he was so opaque with his dnp-cd announcements and with dni-cd (did not interview -coach's decison) choices that blindsided Dick Lutsk, it makes you a little nervous until you see Kyle back on the court with his defensive intensity intact.
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Post by dadominate on Jan 18, 2020 10:08:01 GMT -5
wishful thinking (and a typical stretch) that hcbn has recruited at or above the level of lowder. barring a high-impact transfer, i think some posters are underestimating the impact of this loss not just for this year, but for next year. it is highly unlikely that we will have a freshman point guard of lowder's ability/swagger next year. concerns over lowder's defense were overstated, concerns over being a selfish player on the court were completely unfounded, and he was undoubtedly (i would guess even in your eyes) a gifted scorer both on penetration and from the perimeter. we don't see many players like that in the pl. that said, he is gone and we need to start over. i have to say it is an amazing reversal in your posts from negativity about everything carmody did to positivity for everything hcbn does... and i certainly hope you're right! my early assessment is that while enthusiastic about the hcbn hire, it is clear he is still learning the ropes of managing a program, he probably did not handle the lowder situation the way a more experienced coach might have in light of the rest of the roster, but that he has potential to be what you see in him. certainly not an impressive start, but he's learning just as our freshman are and i hope his passion, high-level playing experience, and hopeful connections lead to success in the relatively near future. Speaking of overstated, Lowder’s recruiting profile matched that of Phil Beans — MAC offers. Only when compared to the huge dip in recruiting that we witnessed over the past 4-5 years does he look overly impressive. While it is doubtful that Nelson can find a PG who can score as much as Lowder would have next year, he should be capable of bringing in a more complete PG who is committed to the program and committed to contributing to a new culture. poor comparison to beans. i believe he had one mac offer in his home state and was a two-star (if that) recruit. the combination of the number/level of lowder's other scholarship offers and his recruiting rating were better than essentially all of lord willard's recruits, with the exception of keith simmons, jordan stevens, potentially andrew beinert. i believe those were the only three star recruits during that time and their other offers were similar. while carmody clearly didn't work out at hc and it was time for new leadership, lowder simply does not fit your narrative on carmody's terrible recruiting alongside everything else he was terrible at doing. maybe things aren't always so black and white.
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Post by possum on Jan 18, 2020 10:40:44 GMT -5
Lowder is a very skilled offensive player, very good ball handler, good perimeter shooter and he has an array of nifty shots around the hoop. At times he dribbled the ball too much for my liking, as teammates became spectators and watched the show. That being said, his defense was really bad. I don't think my first impression of a player has ever been how bad his defense was but that was the case in the Assumption exhibition game. Their point guard, who is a pretty good player, went by him at will either scoring or creating easy opportunities for others. It got so bad that in the second half Nelson took him out. As the season progressed his defense didn't improve much and if I had to guess I think his problems with Nelson revolve around this issue. I always wondered about his recruitment by Carmody because his game in my opinion was not suited to the Princeton offense.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 18, 2020 10:54:41 GMT -5
No question in the last 20 years, Ralph was far and away the best coach in all aspects of the game: recruiting (big plus he was an alum and knew the school culture); game prep (that varied according to the opponent); and in-game coaching as well as matching the offense and defense to the talents of his players. Ralph, however, had a typical metro-NY wise@$$ attitude (I can say that, we're from the same roots and basically the same generation). He didn't like interviews and unlike what a prior poster wrote elsewhere, he did NOT know how to "work the room" at alum events. I would not go out and have a beer with him or his buddy Ricky Pitino. But I would want him to coach my team or my son's team. He was a coach, not a buddy to the players. He probably wanted and demanded their respect, not their friendship.
Sean was someone you'd have a beer with. That's about it. ND unloaded him on us and Regan got sold a bill of goods. Nice guy, wish him well.
Milan was everybody's buddy including the players and I thought a very solid recruiter, perhaps getting the most "athletic" recruits (whatever that means) but played every opponent the same and not an especially a solid in-game coach. I think the only player he lost was after he departed, Mitch Hahn, who was going to leave whether Milan stayed or not. Mitch was not an east coast guy and needed to go back to flyover country.
Carmody seems to have been anachronistic. His time was past with what might have worked well at Princeton and semi-well at Northwestern. He couldn't "work a room" either. Like Ralph, a metro-NY by way of Jersey wise@$$, but a little subtler. My take on his tenure, especially with 20/20 hindsight, he was basically mailing it in even before his wonderful wife, Barbara, got ill. His recruiting, at best, was so-so. His philosophy of conceding rebounds and to simply try to outscore the opponent just doesn't work, especially in the PL. One of my inside sources said that even in the championship run, he just wanted to lose and get that poor first season over with. That's why he was taking bus trips back and forth to Worcester, rather than fly back or take the bus and stay in PA. And, yes, I've previously posted about talking to him one-on-one at a PL baseball tournament game at Hanover Park about him having any concerns about losing so many seniors, he said simply, "No, I'd be concerned if we had won a lot of games with them." This was when seniors Malachi Alexander, Rob Champion, Matt Husek and others who got the tournament championship the year before but stumbled their senior year, were all leaving. Guess those poor results were all on the players, Milan's guys. I shared with some at the last game about my embarrassing faux pas of a few years ago. We lost a very winnable game (don't recall to who now) and post game came out of the 2nd floor men's room and my wife was out waiting for me and I said "the guys really sucked today." Just then, Carmody comes out of the Bud Ryan room behind me and obviously heard me. I am sure my face was red but all he said was "you got that right!"
Still withholding judgement on Nelson. I think he has the right background but just like we have a lot of inexperienced players and a thin bench, he's inexperienced as well and will make mistakes as he learns. But I won't buy that we have to wait until he gets all his own guys. I am a believer that Lowder will be a big loss and not the "don't let the door hit you in the @$$ on the way out" philosophy.
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Post by HC92 on Jan 18, 2020 11:06:57 GMT -5
These truths are self-evident:
1. Lowder is a very good basketball player. 2. HC and/or Nelson was not a good fit for him for reasons we’ll never know.
Anything else is just speculation and not super helpful to anyone. Let’s wish Lowder well and hope we turn his scholarship into the second coming of Torey or Jave.
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 18, 2020 11:09:43 GMT -5
I might have shared this before, but I ran into Milan at the 24 hour CVS in Shrewsbury late one non game evening in the winter while he was Coach. He was picking up something for the family but he stood in the chilly parking lot and talked HC basketball with me for 15 minutes or so. I just identified myself as an HC fan and he was the friendliest fellow in the world. He also greatly respected HC and was cognizant of what an opportunity his recruits had to gain an HC/PL degree.
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Post by Tom on Jan 18, 2020 11:15:24 GMT -5
These truths are self-evident: 1. Lowder is a very good basketball player. 2. HC and/or Nelson was not a good fit for him for reasons we’ll never know. Anything else is just speculation and not super helpful to anyone. Let’s wish Lowder well and hope we turn his scholarship into the second coming of Torey or Jave. A lot of posters come up with stuff that later turns out to be true and I get the fact that with kids today the sport is #1 and the school etc is #2. In spite of all of our posts to the contrary it is possible, albeit not probable, that the transfer is not a result of differing viewpoints between Coach Nelson and Lowder. We are all filling a void of fact with speculation.
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 18, 2020 11:22:58 GMT -5
sader1970, Interesting take. Thank you for sharing. As to Lowder...having a player who really does not want to be on a team is a much bigger negative than any positive he brings to the floor. I wish him well wherever he ends up (too much talent not to find a spot somewhere). I am rooting for the players who are loyal to HC, to their teammates and to their coaches. The remaining games this year will be difficult to watch at times. We will have dry offensive periods (as we have for several seasons - going back through every coach as far as Ralph Willard). I am sure they are working on defense in several forms to get a set that will work for HC. I do see individual development in Faw, Ward, Niego, and continued solid play from Pridgen and, of course, Butler. I look forward to Copeland returning and to Vanberbeek's improvement finally showing through. Hargis, after some shining efforts earlier in the season, is an enigma, as is Reilly. As we knew from game one, HC is a work in progress and will be throughout the season...and, quite probably through the ooc portion of next year as well. How far will HC go in building a foundation? We'll see.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 18, 2020 13:19:30 GMT -5
Speaking of overstated, Lowder’s recruiting profile matched that of Phil Beans — MAC offers. Only when compared to the huge dip in recruiting that we witnessed over the past 4-5 years does he look overly impressive. While it is doubtful that Nelson can find a PG who can score as much as Lowder would have next year, he should be capable of bringing in a more complete PG who is committed to the program and committed to contributing to a new culture. poor comparison to beans. i believe he had one mac offer in his home state and was a two-star (if that) recruit. the combination of the number/level of lowder's other scholarship offers and his recruiting rating were better than essentially all of lord willard's recruits, with the exception of keith simmons, jordan stevens, potentially andrew beinert. i believe those were the only three star recruits during that time and their other offers were similar. while carmody clearly didn't work out at hc and it was time for new leadership, lowder simply does not fit your narrative on carmody's terrible recruiting alongside everything else he was terrible at doing. maybe things aren't always so black and white. Beans had offers from essentially the entire MAC. Per this article from Michigan, Lowder chose HC over Central Michigan, Eastern Michigan, Toledo, Northern Illinois, and Ferris State. www.mlive.com/sports/erry-2018/11/d4a707a47f7152/meet-24-of-the-most-wanted-boy.htmlLowder was certainly a good recruit but you are significantly overrating him. I have higher expectations for a Nelson/RJ Evans combo than having our ceiling being at or below those schools Lowder was choosing from. Expectations that were met in signing Martindale against 17 offers including Vermont, Bucknell, and UNC Greensboro (a program that is going on 3 straight years in the KenPom too 100 and being coached by a rising star in Wes Miller).
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Post by hc87 on Jan 18, 2020 13:44:56 GMT -5
Cooper Creek (Bishop Connolly grad) post-grad at Williston plays in the Hoop Hall against Brimmer&May at 8 tonight....can't make it unfortunately. Currently ranked #19 in Mass NERR but is rising fast. Just sayin'
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Post by hchoops on Jan 18, 2020 14:08:09 GMT -5
Cooper Creek (Bishop Connolly grad) post-grad at Williston plays in the Hoop Hall against Brimmer&May at 8 tonight....can't make it unfortunately. Currently ranked #19 in Mass NERR but is rising fast. Just sayin' Class ? size ? stats ? offers ? grades ?
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Post by hc87 on Jan 18, 2020 14:18:39 GMT -5
Cooper Creek (Bishop Connolly grad) post-grad at Williston plays in the Hoop Hall against Brimmer&May at 8 tonight....can't make it unfortunately. Currently ranked #19 in Mass NERR but is rising fast. Just sayin' Class ? size ? stats ? offers ? grades ? Late bloomah....very interesting backstory. Australian kid, was supposed to go to Durfee, long story short, ended up at Connolly for his Jr and Sr years. Very raw at first but just got bettah and bettah. 6'7" but can play inside/outside...very good range. Williston PG, graduating this year. Has offers from other PL schools (American and Colgate) so he qualifies academically.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 18, 2020 14:39:43 GMT -5
poor comparison to beans. i believe he had one mac offer in his home state and was a two-star (if that) recruit. the combination of the number/level of lowder's other scholarship offers and his recruiting rating were better than essentially all of lord willard's recruits, with the exception of keith simmons, jordan stevens, potentially andrew beinert. i believe those were the only three star recruits during that time and their other offers were similar. while carmody clearly didn't work out at hc and it was time for new leadership, lowder simply does not fit your narrative on carmody's terrible recruiting alongside everything else he was terrible at doing. maybe things aren't always so black and white. Beans had offers from essentially the entire MAC. Per this article from Michigan, Lowder chose HC over Central Michigan, Eastern Michigan, Toledo, Northern Illinois, and Ferris State. www.mlive.com/sports/erry-2018/11/d4a707a47f7152/meet-24-of-the-most-wanted-boy.htmlLowder was certainly a good recruit but you are significantly overrating him.
I have higher expectations for a Nelson/RJ Evans combo than having our ceiling being at or below those schools Lowder was choosing from. Expectations that were met in signing Martindale against 17 offers including Vermont, Bucknell, and UNC Greensboro (a program that is going on 3 straight years in the KenPom too 100 and being coached by a rising star in Wes Miller). Yeah, people tend to do that with players who set a freshman debut scoring record against a Top 10 team....
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New Offer
Jan 18, 2020 14:59:39 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 18, 2020 14:59:39 GMT -5
Beans had offers from essentially the entire MAC. Per this article from Michigan, Lowder chose HC over Central Michigan, Eastern Michigan, Toledo, Northern Illinois, and Ferris State. www.mlive.com/sports/erry-2018/11/d4a707a47f7152/meet-24-of-the-most-wanted-boy.htmlLowder was certainly a good recruit but you are significantly overrating him.
I have higher expectations for a Nelson/RJ Evans combo than having our ceiling being at or below those schools Lowder was choosing from. Expectations that were met in signing Martindale against 17 offers including Vermont, Bucknell, and UNC Greensboro (a program that is going on 3 straight years in the KenPom too 100 and being coached by a rising star in Wes Miller). Yeah, people tend to do that with players who set a freshman debut scoring record against a Top 10 team.... Cool! 1-11 career record at Holy Cross. Does .083 set a record for worst career winning percentage?
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New Offer
Jan 18, 2020 15:08:45 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by hcnation on Jan 18, 2020 15:08:45 GMT -5
Yeah, people tend to do that with players who set a freshman debut scoring record against a Top 10 team.... Cool! 1-11 career record at Holy Cross. Does .083 set a record for worst career winning percentage? I think Nelson has that record .
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Post by hchoops on Jan 18, 2020 15:11:25 GMT -5
Cool! 1-11 career record at Holy Cross. Does .083 set a record for worst career winning percentage? I think Nelson has that record . And the entire team
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jan 19, 2020 9:27:24 GMT -5
Another 2020 PG possibility is 5-11 Shemar Rathan Mayes from Orangeville Prep in Toronto. Sam Ferry went up there to watch him this past fall, iirc. The obligatory mixtape.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jan 19, 2020 9:42:07 GMT -5
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jan 19, 2020 9:51:35 GMT -5
Both Lamaute and Rathan-Mayes got recent shout-outs for BasketBull tournament performances.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jan 19, 2020 10:21:05 GMT -5
More Rathan-Mayes. I like this one better because he's two inches taller.
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Post by DiMarz on Jan 19, 2020 17:33:58 GMT -5
I see those lists and I always wonder, What's their GPA?.....There is always a good reason why these kids haven't signed yet...
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