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Post by rgs318 on Dec 11, 2019 8:24:45 GMT -5
It could always be worse and we need to remember that.
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Post by trimster on Dec 11, 2019 8:36:46 GMT -5
You mean and this is for the old timers which apparently most of us are, like NYU. The Cross used to regularly play the Violets when I was a kid. They were a regular Top Twenty team and had a couple off All Americans in the sixties. Their Administration ended hoops at NYU for many years and they returned as a D 3 program, I believe in the 90's, so yes, it could always be worse.
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Post by cfrivals on Dec 11, 2019 8:37:22 GMT -5
It could always be worse and we need to remember that. UMM, not possible. 50 point loss and a D3 loss, This is as bad as it gets. Wait till the powerful PL gets to play this team There were crickets there last night an most that I talked to looked very discouraged. Students will not support this kinda effort and the locals will not. long long long rebuild, hope the admin is on board this time!
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 11, 2019 8:47:13 GMT -5
So, fewer fans coming to games (as you indicate) - that could be worse. Longer strings of losses (possibly record setting) - that could be worse. more injuries or illness - that could be worse. See how easy it is to see "worse" as possible?
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Post by Tom on Dec 11, 2019 9:39:29 GMT -5
With about 5 minutes to go in the 2nd half, Wade replaced Hargis. The next substitution was Reilly for Yeutter in the closing seconds of overtime. Literally 10 minutes of clock time between subs down the stretch. Just sayin'
There might be an attitude of not caring about wins and losses right now, but mastering the skills that will be needed going forward. Like the whole never changing up to a zone when the man to man isn't getting it done. Still, after the big guy went out for them and HC had the 3 tallest guys on the court (and only 200 lb people), my inclination would be to pound it inside. There was a bad stretch of chucking up outside shots, when their center, giving up 7 inches to Verbeek, was the only UMass Boston player on the floor taller than Wade
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Post by timholycross on Dec 11, 2019 9:47:46 GMT -5
Actually the part of the second half I found the most frustrating most of the action occurred close to the hoop...missed layups, blocked shots, wild shots from in clise, offensive fouls, some trips included several of the above. And little of that is coaching
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Post by lou on Dec 11, 2019 10:07:51 GMT -5
I don't see a problem in calling out certain decisions our coach makes, especially after such a loss. He said it was on him that they weren't prepared for this game, he didnt say why...
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Post by classof83 on Dec 11, 2019 10:14:15 GMT -5
Unfortunately I couldn't make the game last night. I would appreciate an explanation how we had so many shots blocked if we had such a big height advantage. On a personal note, considering I am also a NY Giants fan - this is as bad as it gets
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 11, 2019 11:10:59 GMT -5
1. Anyone seriously thinking that Nelson should be fired at this point has rocks in his head and unless he also has a few million dollars to donate to HC to buy out his contract and hire someone better, let's stop the nonsense. 2. While glad Brett took some responsibility for this loss, he well should. It is on him. It is also on the players. A total collapse by everyone involved. 3. Give great credit to the Beacon. Not only are they a D-3 team playing a D-1 team on the D-1's home court, they got down 16 points and did not roll over even when their small "big men" fouled out. They showed heart. Our guys? Not so much. 4. Verbeek had a shot blocked by an opponent who was perhaps 6" shorter (maybe more?). Ridiculous. 5. Foul shooting? I recall the days under past coaches when we questioned whether the team practiced them. Let's ask again. 6. Probably time to trot out my old mantra: "We are never as good as we think we are but we are also never as bad as we think we are." 7. We still can't rebound! OK, Carmody never cared about that. We (at least I) thought Nelson was going to emphasize rebounding. No evidence of any significant improvement especially last night against a much shorter team. 8. We couldn't seem to get those 50/50 loose balls . . . . against a D-3 team? Shame on us. 9. Thank goodness we didn't schedule Nichols too this year! 10. Pridgen seems to be the only solid, healthy freshman this year (so far). Understand Lowder is injured. What was Wade's strength again? Yeah, we could have used Caleb Green last night. 11. A big surprise for me was this was the kind of team you would have thought AB would eat up with successful drives to the basket. Only Pridgen did that with any consistency. 12. So, even a big wipeout loss to Canisius won't put us lower than this. This is rock bottom even if we lose every remaining game. 13. (Lucky # 13!) Maybe we will see Copeland, Lowder, Faw and the whole team healthy again and BN lights a fire under these guys and we knock off Canisius and we all post afterwards: "What were we worried about?"
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Post by sarasota on Dec 11, 2019 11:14:32 GMT -5
Thank you. That's exactly why we should emulate them. I hear what you are saying about D-3 given HC's size and lack of success in D-1, but we have so little in common with secular Amherst and Williams I am not sure they have any relevance to HC. When I say we should emulate Wms and Amherst, what I have in mind is not their secularity. I'm mainly referring to the place in which they have put their athletics. To oversimplify, it's a question of Academics vs. Athletics. How you direct your resources. The size of endowments is not the problem. Our endowment is plenty big enough IF we choose to change the gigantic investment we make for Athletics. If the Luths, instead of pouring tens of millions of dollars into Athletics, had instead endowed faculty compensation, a new Institute for the investigation of History, or Biomedical science, or sustainability, or Government, or Business, our academic standing and reputation would be elevated.
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 11, 2019 11:58:41 GMT -5
Most don't like to hear it but the PL is a good fit for Holy Cross. With the exception of BU, pretty much all the schools are about the same size (-5,000 enrollment), are academic-focused institutions, located in the Northeast (yes, I know "Pennsylvania League") and endowments, with some exceptions, in the same ballpark. No, we aren't Williams, Amherst or Bowdoin. Despite the evidence from last night, we are a D-I league. They aren't D-I and, like the Ivy League, aren't looking to add any schools to their inner circle.
Do I wish we had a lot fewer sports we were supporting? Yes. But as I've posted before, Frank Vellaccio told me a number of years ago that the "non-revenue" ("minor?") sports are heavily subsidized by the NCAA and "cost practically nothing" while attracting high academic performing kids who want to continue playing field hockey, lacrosse, golf, soccer, tennis, etc. beyond high school.
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 11, 2019 12:57:56 GMT -5
Most don't like to hear it but the PL is a good fit for Holy Cross. With the exception of BU, pretty much all the schools are about the same size (-5,000 enrollment), are academic-focused institutions, located in the Northeast (yes, I know "Pennsylvania League") and endowments, with some exceptions, in the same ballpark. No, we aren't Williams, Amherst or Bowdoin. Despite the evidence from last night, we are a D-I league. They aren't D-I and, like the Ivy League, aren't looking to add any schools to their inner circle. Do I wish we had a lot fewer sports we were supporting? Yes. But as I've posted before, Frank Vellaccio told me a number of years ago that the "non-revenue" ("minor?") sports are heavily subsidized by the NCAA and "cost practically nothing" while attracting high academic performing kids who want to continue playing field hockey, lacrosse, golf, soccer, tennis, etc. beyond high school.  The mind searches for a way out of the PL into successful sustained winning in some conference where it "matters" but all roads lead back to the PL, our not perfect but best fit currently available. The excitement and joy the Beacons played with last night is comparable to how HC played against Maryland, feeling absolutely no pressure. Last night HC had the fear factor knowing there was no upside possible. Even a win would generate no credit because it would be against a D-3 team. And the pressure to not lose must have been huge. So we're on to Canisius to play loose and free with reduced pressure and hopefully with some of the walking wounded back on the court.
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Post by Chu Chu on Dec 11, 2019 13:15:53 GMT -5
My heart sank when I saw this score in the paper this morning. Wow. Did not see this coming. The players will be devastated. How we respond to this will define our season. #GoCrossGo
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Post by gks on Dec 11, 2019 13:19:40 GMT -5
My heart sank when I saw this score in the paper this morning. Wow. Did not see this coming. The players will be devastated. How we respond to this will define our season. #GoCrossGoPlayers have no one to blame but themselves. If this doesn't motivate them....
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Post by crusader12 on Dec 11, 2019 13:37:19 GMT -5
What an embarrassment! Just when you think we have hit rock bottom. BAD!!!
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Post by nhteamer on Dec 11, 2019 13:40:35 GMT -5
This is a new official low but EASY on Nelson. I think we're lucky to have him and just hope that he doesn't quit!
I'm reminded about a Bobby Knight (maybe John Wooden) response to a query about winning so many games: " I had better players."
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 11, 2019 13:49:52 GMT -5
Last night waa a rough night that called for an emergency postgame pit stop at the "99" in Worcester. Just to recover.
Thankfully I took vacation this week and was able to sleep in a little bit after a brief early morning feeding with my infant daughter (now 6 weeks).
While it may feel like the sky is falling, this game really didnt tell us anything we don't already know. New system, young inexperienced roster due to previous regime leaving the cupboard not only bare but on fire. Projected last place in PL and by a landslide. Almost certain to be the worst team in school history.
The only reason I even considered going to this game was because a) I actually thought it could be competitive and b) I thought it would be nice to see a win this year in person. And this is likely the only game from now until March where we will be favored (home, away, neutral, on the moon, on an aircraft carrier, etc).
While there are never excuses for a loss like this, the fact does remain that we had 3 of our better players sidelined with injury. That does make a difference. The most concerning thing for me was that the team allowed UMB to hang around after extending the lead to 16 late in the first half.
This was going to be an ugly year regardless of how last night went. Hopefully we see some progress. Team just needs to play loose and develop. This season is basically one long scrimmage.
Ive now seen us beat BC and lose to UMass-Boston. Funny how it goes sometimes.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 11, 2019 14:38:00 GMT -5
You mean and this is for the old timers which apparently most of us are, like NYU. The Cross used to regularly play the Violets when I was a kid. They were a regular Top Twenty team and had a couple off All Americans in the sixties. Their Administration ended hoops at NYU for many years and they returned as a D 3 program, I believe in the 90's, so yes, it could always be worse. NYU - Barry Kramer, Mal Graham(not sure?) and before him Tom Sanders. Hoops, Who am I forgetting? Here's a link to the NYU players who made it to the NBA--20 in total. The two most prominent ones to add to your list would be Happy Hairston--who played for a number of teams but found his greatest success with the great Chamberlain-West- Baylor-Goodrich Lakers. He played through 1975, the last NYU player n the NBA Dolph Schayes--Hall of Fame center for Syracuse Nats--big scorer and great free throw shooter, especially for a big man www.basketball-reference.com/friv/colleges.fcgi?college=newyorku
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Post by MeatWilkerson on Dec 11, 2019 15:19:07 GMT -5
27 D1 sports.......who's kidding who.......would we have had the new sports facilities if an alum hadn't decided to dump tens of millions on the school? I'm sorry to resurrect this, but we are......a small academy on a hill in Worcester. We're a fish in a pond. The problem is not the size of the fish. That is what it is. The problem is the size of the pond. The pond has become way too big. That's why we're a small fish. Reduce the size of the pond and we won't be a small fish any more. Get out of D1. It's a big tail wagging a small dog. We have two models right here in Massachusetts....Amherst and Williams. THEY should be our lodestars. Amherst and Williams endowments are much bigger and both schools are much more prestigious than Holy Cross. I would put every NESCAC school ahead of HC in terms of academic prestige. Brah, you'd put even Hamilton, Bates, ConnCollege & Trinity ahead of us??? Fo' real, Brah? Just how far has our national academic reputation fallen?
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Post by hc87 on Dec 11, 2019 15:26:01 GMT -5
Holy Cross is now a safety school for kids applying to BC and Villanova Meat....it ain't pretty
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 11, 2019 16:02:12 GMT -5
I don't have access to any box score but would appear you are talking about your senior year, my freshman year and would have been "Easy Ed's" sophomore year (2/11/67). HC won 92-85 in, yes, the Worcester Memorial Auditorium. Ralph Willard being the captain. A 16-9 season and interestingly, earlier in the season, 3 consecutive overtime games (2 wins over Penn and UConn after a loss to Western Kentucky who, of course, Ralph coached later).
I have shared in the past Jack Donahue telling how Ed Siudut would heave a shot just past the midcourt line and Jack would scream "ED!!!!! . . . (and then swish) . . . . BABY!!
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Post by sarasota on Dec 11, 2019 17:31:49 GMT -5
Those schools ought to be our peers over all. However, our overspending on athletics alone makes us unattractive to them. If you were one of them would you want to compete against our athletic facilities and our compensation to our bball and fball coaches? Our athletics philosophy is like a tumor that makes our tiny academy out of wack, unbalanced. I'm guessing it's the prevalance of old alums like me, who remember the glory days and many of whom donate significantly to HC that allows the imbalance to persist.
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Post by bfoley82 on Dec 11, 2019 17:39:34 GMT -5
Meat- I would suggest that you ignore HC87's Villanova obsession as do most on this board. He is merely repeating his largely discredited refrain about Villanova due to some prior connection with the Philly school in an effort to tweak HC alums. Many of us had this out with him in the past and as I said his views were largely debunked. For some reason he repeats his silly claims.Most of us know to pay him no mind and dismiss his claims out of hand. The NESCAC is a conference of fine schools. Amherst and Williams do lead the pack with Wesleyan, Bowdoin, Colby, Bates, Middlebury, Hamilton, and Tufts not far behind. However Connecticut College,Trinity and Union certainly are fine schools much in the same category or slightly behind HC. I had always thought it would have been a great landing spot for HC but as I was told by an HC alum the conference was not interested in expanding and "HC could not get past the front gate." I think most on this board are happy that HC did not get in. LoveHC Union isn't a NESCAC school
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Post by bigfan on Dec 11, 2019 17:42:14 GMT -5
I was at the NYU game and Ed S put on a great shooting show. I wish they had the three point shot when he played, also Jack the Shot would have had many more points.
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Post by bfoley82 on Dec 11, 2019 17:47:37 GMT -5
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