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Post by nycrusader2010 on Mar 26, 2022 7:42:57 GMT -5
If Gates still has credits he needs to finish to graduate, I imagine he'll be back.
It's not impossible that maybe outside of basketball, perhaps he is enjoying the undergrad liberal arts experience at our beloved college and wants to finish here. What a radical thought.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 19, 2022 22:18:04 GMT -5
Nelson probably best suited as the lead assistant at an AAC / CUSA type school. Just a bad fit in really every which way at Holy Cross.
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coachrt
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 92
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Post by coachrt on Nov 21, 2022 16:21:32 GMT -5
Nelson probably best suited as the lead assistant at an AAC / CUSA type school. Just a bad fit in really every which way at Holy Cross. That's what it really comes down to is fit. I'll nvever understand why hiring an assistant from Marquette was the best choice. In my mind you need to hire someone from a like minded institution. Too many AD's concerned about winning the press conference and not who would understand the culture of the institution. If I'm the AD at Holy Cross, I'm looking for someone from a highly selective institution, that has recruited nationally, and understands the limitations placed on you by admissions. Marquette can get anyone they want in for basketball. Do you really think that individal would understand the recruiting difficulties at Holy Cross. Also, too many AD's are in love with having to hire someone from D1. If you can recruit to a highly selective D3, you can probably do a decent job in the Ivy or Patriot League. Hiring someone is similar to recruiting. You never really know for sure how they will work out immediately but at least give yourself a chance to find someone that fits your profile.
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Post by longsuffering on Nov 21, 2022 16:39:43 GMT -5
Somebody who has coached at highly selective Princeton and Northwestern? Only kidding but keeping tabs on the NESCAC coaches makes sense.
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Post by efg72 on Nov 21, 2022 17:51:16 GMT -5
Get out of the PL into any league and the options will be many..
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 21, 2022 17:52:55 GMT -5
Nelson probably best suited as the lead assistant at an AAC / CUSA type school. Just a bad fit in really every which way at Holy Cross. That's what it really comes down to is fit. I'll nvever understand why hiring an assistant from Marquette was the best choice. In my mind you need to hire someone from a like minded institution. Too many AD's concerned about winning the press conference and not who would understand the culture of the institution. If I'm the AD at Holy Cross, I'm looking for someone from a highly selective institution, that has recruited nationally, and understands the limitations placed on you by admissions. Marquette can get anyone they want in for basketball. Do you really think that individal would understand the recruiting difficulties at Holy Cross. Also, too many AD's are in love with having to hire someone from D1. If you can recruit to a highly selective D3, you can probably do a decent job in the Ivy or Patriot League. Hiring someone is similar to recruiting. You never really know for sure how they will work out immediately but at least give yourself a chance to find someone that fits your profile. You are posting as if recruiting is our problem, which it isn’t. Program culture (decimated by Nelson’s predecessors, especially by the curmudgeon right before him) and the whole of the team performing better than the sum of its parts are our biggest problems, by far. Setting any type of criteria like you tried to lay out for a coaching search at Holy Cross is silly and just eliminates great potential candidates — our most egregious recent example being Dick Regan stating that our next coach HAD to have head coaching experience after firing Kearney, and passing up a unicorn in Mark Daigneault. The skills, experience, and capabilities of the individual coach are far more important than any classification of a previous employer (e.g. “highly selective D3”). Bob Chesney wouldn’t have met your criteria of having to have worked at a highly selective school, recruit nationally, etc.
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Post by Crosser on Nov 21, 2022 18:02:54 GMT -5
Serious question here, how difficult is it for a coach at any college to learn all about the culture and admission requirements of a new college where he is applying for a coaching job? And a related question, shouldn’t a college hiring a new basketball coach have a firm belief that the prospective coach has the ability, knowledge, personality, temperament, etc. to “fit in” to their school?
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 21, 2022 18:09:19 GMT -5
Serious question here, how difficult is it for a coach at any college to learn all about the culture and admission requirements of a new college where he is applying for a coaching job? And a related question, shouldn’t a college hiring a new basketball coach have a firm belief that the prospective coach has the ability, knowledge, personality, temperament, etc. to “fit in” to their school? Q1) If it’s the right coach (e.g. Chesney, whose background had next to nothing in common with HC outside of working in Worcester), it’s not difficult. Q2)Yes Not totally the same because RW went to HC, but he had never coached anywhere that faced a similar recruiting/playing environment as HC, but I’d say he was able to figure it out pretty well.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 21, 2022 18:28:14 GMT -5
I don’t get the “recruiting environment “ or “high academic college” argument. All potential recruits to any college should be vetted before they are approached. I’d be astonished to learn that any of our coaches have wasted time pursuing recruits who are clearly not qualified academically. You find the qualified targets and then use your salesmanship to convince them that HC is the right choice for them. Other PL schools have been able to do that and we were able to do that years ago. Don’t complicate the matter
I’ll bet Bob Chesney would be a great recruiter at Harvard and at Bugtussel State and everything in between
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 21, 2022 21:31:32 GMT -5
I never had to hire a coach but have hired or promoted literally hundreds of people from clerks to middle managers (who often had to be coaches of their subordinates). The company that I worked for most of my career took great pains in training its people on how to be a manager and how to hire/promote.
One of the basic things we were taught was "look for success patterns." That's why Bob Chesney with 20/20 eyesight was a perfect hire. He succeeded as a head coach at D-3 Salve Regina, D-2 Assumption and, as it turns out, D-1AA Holy Cross. Brett Nelson had great success as a player. I'm pretty fuzzy on how successful he truly was as an assistant at Marquette. Having a success is very different than having multiple successes. I agree with those here who say it is better to have a lower level head coach who has a proven pattern of success than an assistant at a higher level school.
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Post by sluka4heisman on Nov 21, 2022 22:48:25 GMT -5
Anyone have any Nelson replacements in mind? Derek Kellogg of UMASS might be a good fit.
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Post by longsuffering on Nov 21, 2022 22:58:36 GMT -5
I don’t get the “recruiting environment “ or “high academic college” argument. All potential recruits to any college should be vetted before they are approached. I’d be astonished to learn that any of our coaches have wasted time pursuing recruits who are clearly not qualified academically. You find the qualified targets and then use your salesmanship to convince them that HC is the right choice for them. Other PL schools have been able to do that and we were able to do that years ago. Don’t complicate the matter I’ll bet Bob Chesney would be a great recruiter at Harvard and at Bugtussel State and everything in between Bugtussel State just became a University and is going D-1 next year.
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Post by longsuffering on Nov 21, 2022 23:20:43 GMT -5
Get out of the PL into any league and the options will be many.. Many higher leagues are scouting the basement dwellers in lower leagues looking for malcontent schools who blame the league for their troubles. What league would take us? Your idea of a Big Bang exploding the NCAA as we know it and creating vast new opportunities for everyone is interesting because the canvas is blank and imagination can fill it to taste. But the NCAA as we know it is stone cold reality with no room for charity. HC would weaken any existing league so probably the only league that would accept us currently is the league we co-founded.
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Post by bfoley82 on Nov 21, 2022 23:48:24 GMT -5
I never had to hire a coach but have hired or promoted literally hundreds of people from clerks to middle managers (who often had to be coaches of their subordinates). The company that I worked for most of my career took great pains in training its people on how to be a manager and how to hire/promote. One of the basic things we were taught was "look for success patterns." That's why Bob Chesney with 20/20 eyesight was a perfect hire. He succeeded as a head coach at D-3 Salve Regina, D-2 Assumption and, as it turns out, D-1AA Holy Cross. Brett Nelson had great success as a player. I'm pretty fuzzy on how successful he truly was as an assistant at Marquette. Having a success is very different than having multiple successes. I agree with those here who say it is better to have a lower level head coach who has a proven pattern of success than an assistant at a higher level school. Nelson's last year at Marquette saw the team go 24-10 and made the NCAA Tournament. The two previous years were NIT and NCAA Tournament appearances. Nelson's boss Wojo was fired from Marquette two years after Nelson left at the end of the 2020-2021 season
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Post by sader81 on Nov 22, 2022 6:27:21 GMT -5
Anyone have any Nelson replacements in mind? Derek Kellogg of UMASS might be a good fit. John Gallagher. Checks all the boxes. He can coach!
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Nov 22, 2022 7:00:24 GMT -5
Is there a danger that the program has become a coaching graveyard in the eyes of the coaching community? Or if not, at least a much less appealing job than 10 years ago?
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 22, 2022 8:17:39 GMT -5
Some of these names are laughable.
John Gallagher has a career winning % of .449 and had 14+ losses in 11 of 12 years at Hartford. Yes, Hartford isn’t/wasn’t a good job, but neither is Holy Cross right now.
Derek Kellogg had been fired from each of his two head coaching jobs and is a recruiter way more than a coach. Not a formula for success at HC.
Dave Paulsen would be Curmudgeon Carmody 2.0. Similar to Lehigh hiring Tom Gilmore at a time when the landscape is vastly different from when they were successful coaches in the pL.
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Post by hchoops on Nov 22, 2022 8:26:33 GMT -5
John Beilein
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Post by efg72 on Nov 22, 2022 8:29:31 GMT -5
A fit for the situation if he would take the job
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Nov 22, 2022 8:31:37 GMT -5
Would you have to back up the Brinks truck?
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Post by hc17 on Nov 22, 2022 8:33:19 GMT -5
If we're taking suggestions, Joe Gallo (Merrimack) and Luke Murray (UConn) are two names that have different backgrounds, but I think are somewhat realistic.
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Post by hchoops on Nov 22, 2022 8:35:31 GMT -5
Not sure how much Beilein would cost. But I believe he wants back in to college coaching. Would he accept the big challenge of a very low major in a weak hoops, but strong academic conference ? He would be worth multiple phone calls.
Andy Sachs ? Has followed the Chesney pattern of success. Obviously knows the terrain.
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Post by hc17 on Nov 22, 2022 8:40:09 GMT -5
Not sure how much Beilein would cost. But I believe he wants back in to college coaching. Would he accept the big challenge of a very low major in a weak hoops, but strong academic conference ? He would be worth multiple phone calls. If we're going big-game hunting, Tom Crean deserves a call.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 22, 2022 8:42:27 GMT -5
Landry K. — head coach at Swathmore
John Griffin III — associate head coach at St. Joe’s.
If we want someone who can actually coach — Jay Lawson (Bentley) and Chris Bartley (WPI) are two local guys that are tremendous coaches. They’re a little older and have been at their schools for a while, which might be a deterrent for Kit.
Kevin Bettencourt would be worth speaking to (Endicott).
I’m convinced that going to a bigger program and hiring some guy with an impressive resume consisting of stops across the high mid-major and P5 landscape isn’t the way to go.
Go get someone who knows how to actually run a program, develop talent, and coach.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 22, 2022 8:45:15 GMT -5
Tom Crean would be a disaster.
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