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Post by sarasota on Feb 2, 2020 16:33:26 GMT -5
Congrats to Women for outstanding performance at the Indoor New Englands! They finished 6th. HC's men T&F finished 20th out of 22 teams. (Assumption finished 8th.)
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Post by purplehaze on Feb 2, 2020 20:30:51 GMT -5
Yes, Women with some Schollie $ finished 6th while the men sans $ finished 20th of 22 schools behind schools such as MIT, Franklin Pierce, and Stonehill - fair to say we should aspire to do a little better than that
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 2, 2020 22:44:59 GMT -5
So the men T&F team members suffer because HC has football? Actually they don't suffer because if HC gave scholarships to male T&F athletes they would likely go to recruits who run faster, jump higher and throw farther. Hats off to the male T+F team members who still go out and compete for Holy Cross. It's not the best situation for one gender to get scholarships and not the other in the same sport, but there is no easy solution.
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Post by HC92 on Feb 2, 2020 22:46:11 GMT -5
Women’s team is coached my my classmate, Egetta Alfonso, who is very good people. Glad to see them doing well.
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Post by bison137 on Feb 2, 2020 22:52:49 GMT -5
So the men T&F team members suffer because HC has football? Actually they don't suffer because if HC gave scholarships to male T&F athletes they would likely go to recruits who run faster, jump higher and throw farther. Hats off to the male T+F team members who still go out and compete for Holy Cross. It's not the best situation for one gender to get scholarships and not the other in the same sport, but there is no easy solution. That's an issue throughout the PL and many other leagues where there is football. With the possible exception of Boston U, there is no men's team in the PL which gives out any scholarship money. That leaves the field open for total dominance by Navy and Army, which bring in dozens of recruited T&F athletes every year. If you took the top athletes from the other eight schools, they still likely wouldn't be able to beat Navy. |
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Post by sarasota on Feb 3, 2020 1:17:13 GMT -5
Title IX. An unintended side effect.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Feb 3, 2020 8:50:16 GMT -5
So the men T&F team members suffer because HC has football? Actually they don't suffer because if HC gave scholarships to male T&F athletes they would likely go to recruits who run faster, jump higher and throw farther. Hats off to the male T+F team members who still go out and compete for Holy Cross. It's not the best situation for one gender to get scholarships and not the other in the same sport, but there is no easy solution. Until Women's Football becomes an NCAA sport, this will always be the case. This is why most P5 schools only sponsor a handful of Men's sports. Many, for example will have Women's Swimming but no men or Women's Cross Country but no men. This is why there are twice as many DI Womens Lax programs than their are mens. |
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 3, 2020 9:22:59 GMT -5
I still believe that football should stand apart from Title IX. But that is probably just me.
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Post by bison137 on Feb 3, 2020 9:25:38 GMT -5
I still believe that football should stand apart from Title IX. But that is probably just me. It's probably a lot of people. But very few women athletes. |
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Post by lou on Feb 3, 2020 9:39:00 GMT -5
I still believe that football should stand apart from Title IX. But that is probably just me. Please explain how that would work |
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 3, 2020 9:46:50 GMT -5
Scholarships awarded for football would not "count" in determining compliance with Title IX (or require an equal number of scholarships in women's sports). It would allow for scholarships in some men's sports (or their reinstitution if they have already been eliminated) and there could be real parity in terms of men and women's teams where there are parallel sports. I am not sure that eliminating men's sports does anything to advance women's opportunities in college athletics. Of course, if football were to become a co-ed team, I am sure there are attorneys who could make the argument that additional scholarships would no longer be needed since women had the opportunity to play football if they so desired (and could meet the physical requirements). This is going on at the high school level in football, ice hockey, and wrestling already.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Feb 3, 2020 11:11:06 GMT -5
I still believe that football should stand apart from Title IX. But that is probably just me. I've heard others argue this. But the counter argument could then be, "if football is excepted from title IX then so would volleyball and field hockey". The Feds would never allow this exception because the political incorrectness would be egregious. Title IX affects much more than scholarships. Because of football, thousands of non-revenue female athletes receive "full cost of attendance" checks. |
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 3, 2020 11:38:27 GMT -5
And because of Title IX, thousands of men are denied a chance at scholarships in what some call "minor" sports - or lose even a chance compete in those sports since some men's teams are eliminated entirely. I started and coached several women's high school teams and was an officer in the County Women Coaches Association for 35 years. I know how much easier it was to get scholarship money for female athletes than for their male counterparts. It is a complex situation with no easy solution.
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Post by bison137 on Feb 3, 2020 12:05:19 GMT -5
. I know how much easier it was to get scholarship money for female athletes than for their male counterparts. It is a complex situation with no easy solution. It depends on the sport. In total, there are more men's athletic scholarships than female scholarships. |
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 3, 2020 12:56:47 GMT -5
Is that still true if football scholarships are not counted?
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 3, 2020 13:04:03 GMT -5
When I put on my prognosticator hat I can see it more likely that intramural/club/varsity women's football would take hold before feminists would allow football scholarships to be exempted from gender fairness rules.
The first female coach was on TV last night and women's rugby is quite popular, so the stage is set for some type of development of women's football. Women in MMA is almost more of a stretch from traditional gender roles than football but women have jumped in with both feet and both fists because the sport is new and not entrenched in a century of tradition and expectations.
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Post by sarasota on Feb 3, 2020 13:52:42 GMT -5
Should this be the Rule? In all sports where there is a male team and a female team the number of schollies for each team must be the same, i.e., If 5 male tennis schollies then 5 female tennis schollies. Football is totally exempted from any gender-based rule. For single gender sports (other than football), the total schollies for mens teams must equal the total schollies for womens teams. For women who will complain about that, they should be reminded that not so long ago the proper roles for women were "Kinder, Kirche und Kuchen."
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Post by alum on Feb 3, 2020 14:10:08 GMT -5
I guess I'll just ignore Sota's comment and point out that even if Congress excluded football from Title IX calculations, there is no guarantee that most FCS schools would add in another 63 scholarships for male athletes. That's $4.5 million at HC. It is not going to happen
EDIT: No, I'm not going to ignore Sota's offensive comment. I assume he knows that, while the German phrase he quotes predates the Third Reich, Hitler's policies embraced it. None of us should just ignore such offensive talk It should be condemned.
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Post by bison137 on Feb 3, 2020 14:22:05 GMT -5
Is that still true if football scholarships are not counted? No. And the numbers are also different if women's field hockey and softball are not counted. And they are also different if men's soccer and wrestling are not counted. Not sure why any scholarships would be excluded however. |
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Post by bison137 on Feb 3, 2020 14:23:20 GMT -5
Should this be the Rule? In all sports where there is a male team and a female team the number of schollies for each team must be the same, i.e., If 5 male tennis schollies then 5 female tennis schollies. Football is totally exempted from any gender-based rule. No it shouldn't be the rule, and I can think of no reason whatsoever why it would even be considered. |
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Feb 3, 2020 16:23:30 GMT -5
When I put on my prognosticator hat I can see it more likely that intramural/club/varsity women's football would take hold before feminists would allow football scholarships to be exempted from gender fairness rules. The first female coach was on TV last night and women's rugby is quite popular, so the stage is set for some type of development of women's football. Women in MMA is almost more of a stretch from traditional gender roles than football but women have jumped in with both feet and both fists because the sport is new and not entrenched in a century of tradition and expectations. Maybe Women's Rugby will one day become the female equivalent to Men's Football when it comes to scholarship allotment. Just like softball is the women's equivalent to baseball. |
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 3, 2020 17:34:22 GMT -5
That would be less of a leap than women's football. CTE argues for a contraction in football, not an expansion.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 3, 2020 23:52:42 GMT -5
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Post by sarasota on Feb 4, 2020 0:39:26 GMT -5
I guess I'll just ignore Sota's comment and point out that even if Congress excluded football from Title IX calculations, there is no guarantee that most FCS schools would add in another 63 scholarships for male athletes. That's $4.5 million at HC. It is not going to happen EDIT: No, I'm not going to ignore Sota's offensive comment. I assume he knows that, while the German phrase he quotes predates the Third Reich, Hitler's policies embraced it. None of us should just ignore such offensive talk It should be condemned. alum- Calm down. My comment about women was tongue in cheek. Only a not very perceptive reader would think I was serious. |
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Post by Bob Saccamano on Feb 4, 2020 1:34:36 GMT -5
When I was at UNH, several football players were members of the track and field program. Wonder why that isn’t going on at Holy Cross?
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