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Post by longsuffering on Feb 17, 2020 11:57:56 GMT -5
As a reminder.......HC is a virulently top down organization with the top occupied by one or more Jesuits. The BoD is carefully selected.....so as to follow orders. It's a rubber stamp. So I don't care if the BoD is 100% former athletes. It wouldn't make a difference. Our society is becoming more and more secular. What vitality there is among religionists in the U.S. is concentrated in the evangelical, etc. area, certainly not in traditional religions and most certainly not in Catholicism. So you have a Jesuit (and the Society of Jesus) running things in a secularizing society. Nobody expects the Jesuits and their constituency to abandon its religious mission, but it would help a lot if they would "soften" it. That's why having an appropriate image (nickname, logo, mascot) as well as having a lay person as President are more important than one might realize. There are threats ahead for H.C., perhaps not existential but certainly to quality, reputation, etc. If HC is to be preserved, it is not by sports but instead by its Endowment, which grows by way of donors, both individuals and corporations. They will be attracted by the quality of HC's education. I purposely say "education" and not "the HC experience" as some would say. Because so long as HC is an institution of higher learning, it's objective must be education--not moral formation, which is the proper role of The Family, The Church and the Seminary. I don't have any experience with Jesuits acting virulently, but on the other hand they had me at hello. I always acted deferentially and we had no problems. Perhaps women feel differently as they are excluded from membership. But if you ask Father B. if he is able to rule HC from the top down with imperial power, I think he would note all the protests from many different angles that have tied him and his administration up in knots. It certainly seems like the member of the HC community that carries the biggest PC stick either prevails or gets a good amount of concessions, and those on the conservative side like the Bishop and others have their own sticks to wave and levers to pull. Combined with the Jesuits fighting for their demographic lives, I'm not sure they have virulent rule over anything. I feel more protective of the shrinking order than angry at them or fearful of them. |
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Post by bison137 on Feb 17, 2020 12:06:21 GMT -5
Just checked. Providence is Worcester sized 179k vs 185K population but Albany is only 97K. However, many more Lobbyists must be trying to influence the NY State budget compared to how many are trying to influence the RI State budget. That is a good point. Siena is a totally unique situation, playing in a state capital in a huge taxpayer-funded arena. NYS has the second largest state budget in the nation and the second largest number of bureaucrats. There are many billions of dollars in state money, lobbyist money, and service-company money floating around. Plus Albany is not close to any pro towns - so there is very little competition for the entertainment dollar. In Worcester, sports fans can go watch the Celts or Bruins or Red Sox. No one in Albany is going to drive three hours to watch the NY or Boston pro teams. Siena has to do very little to attract people to its games. |
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Feb 17, 2020 12:22:29 GMT -5
NAD, you forgot the 887 who crammed in yesterday to see 1st place St. Peter's host Fairfield. Funny res, was just checking out the replay of that game in ESPN+....lots and lots of pretty bare brown bleachers at the Yanitelli Center. |
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 17, 2020 12:38:41 GMT -5
Why are the fans in Albany area supporting the Franciscan, Catholic Siena over the secular, state run University of Albany?
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Post by bison137 on Feb 17, 2020 12:59:05 GMT -5
Why are the fans in Albany area supporting the Franciscan, Catholic Siena over the secular, state run University of Albany? A few reasons, including the following. First, Siena has been a D1 program since 1976, playing many well-known programs. Albany only became a full D1 team in about 2001. Thus they started with a 25-year handicap. Secondly, Siena had the huge downtown TUC locked up as its home court long before Albany was even a D1 program. Albany has always played in an antiquated gym. Thirdly, Siena has been successful almost constantly since the mid-80's. Albany, in contrast, was awful until 2006 - and was rarely good until 2013. Thus Albany has always been viewed as the minor league team by most Albany fans. |
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 17, 2020 12:59:54 GMT -5
Why are the fans in Albany area supporting the Franciscan, Catholic Siena over the secular, state run University of Albany? Perhaps because Siena was there first, and was /is? primarily a day student college. Probably has a large, local, alumni base in the Albany Schenectady Troy area. Those three cities have a combined population of over 200,000. The Albany Schenectady Troy MSA has a population of over 800,000. (Louodonville, where the Siena campus is, is between Albany and Troy, and east of Schenectady.). |
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 17, 2020 13:03:26 GMT -5
UVM at Albany on 2-1-20 attendance was 4219, just about a sellout as the Catamount fans must have crossed the lake, but on 2-5-20 Binghampton at Albany was back down to 1742 as the cross state drive is much farther, I guess.
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Post by sarasota on Feb 17, 2020 13:14:50 GMT -5
Siena's student population is about the same as HC's. Siena's endowment is $135M. HC's endowment is $786M. THAT'S what's really important about HC.
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Post by bison137 on Feb 17, 2020 13:18:18 GMT -5
UVM at Albany on 2-1-20 attendance was 4219, just about a sellout as the Catamount fans must have crossed the lake, but on 2-5-20 Binghampton at Albany was back down to 1742 as the cross state drive is much farther, I guess. Even though Siena has always been the dominant program in Albany, that doesn't mean that UAlbany cannot draw decent crowds. As mentioned, Albany has a HUGE amount of money sloshing around and has a lot of people with few sports options. So even if Albany isn't #1, there still is room for them to have a decent fan base, especially with an enrollment of about 14,000 that includes almost 8000 who live on campus. Since they became a strong program in 2013, they have typically drawn between 2500 and 3400 per game. It has helped that their gym (SEFCU Arena) has been renovated so that it has less resemblance to an oversized HS gym than it had a decade ago. |
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 17, 2020 13:24:29 GMT -5
I'm guessing SEFCU stands for State Employees Federal Credit Union or something similar, illustrating how much State payroll dollars are sloshing around in Albany. Former State Senator Matt Amorello from Grafton, MA. once proposed that the MA state offices be moved to Worcester to save money, but that went over like a lead balloon.
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Post by bison137 on Feb 17, 2020 13:25:20 GMT -5
Siena's student population is about the same as HC's. Siena's endowment is $135M. HC's endowment is $786M. THAT'S what's really important about HC. Siena also has had major fiscal problems in recent years. Forbes' recent financial health ratings for colleges gave it a below-average C-. A number of the schools with that grade level will not be around in 15 years. Holy Cross, along with Bucknell, Colgate, Lafayette, and Lehigh, got an A- grade. Of PL schools, only Loyola got worse than a B. |
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 17, 2020 13:41:04 GMT -5
Siena's student population is about the same as HC's. Siena's endowment is $135M. HC's endowment is $786M. THAT'S what's really important about HC. Siena also has had major fiscal problems in recent years. Forbes' recent financial health ratings for colleges gave it a below-average C-. A number of the schools with that grade level will not be around in 15 years. Holy Cross, along with Bucknell, Colgate, Lafayette, and Lehigh, got an A- grade. Of PL schools, only Loyola got worse than a B. On the other hand, if Siena is making adjustments like adding continuing education and graduate programs in response to market need and offering programs like Nursing that will provide professional jobs right after graduation, perhaps, because they have to, they are being more responsive and nimble in the marketplace than the PL schools with higher grades and endowments. |
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Post by sarasota on Feb 17, 2020 14:06:55 GMT -5
Siena offers an amazing variety of programs for a school that small. I cannot speak to their quality. BTW, they also have a layperson as President. Given their weak financial position, I guess their's is a case of "necessity is the mother of invention." Perhaps HC's strong financial position explains HC's passive approach to modernization, for want of a better term.
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Post by alum on Feb 17, 2020 14:48:29 GMT -5
While we contemplate how bad things are, know that all sorts of college programs are having problems. I received an email from UCONN today offering me $5 tickets to all remaining home games for men's and women's hoops and men's hockey. By the time I looked into it, one of the men's BB games was no longer available, but I did pick up tickets to the Houston game. They are up high, but it will still be a chance to see a top 25 team twenty minutes from home. We can go to dinner, see the game, and be home before ten on a Thursday night. Pretty good deal.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 17, 2020 16:37:39 GMT -5
While we contemplate how bad things are, know that all sorts of college programs are having problems. I received an email from UCONN today offering me $5 tickets to all remaining home games for men's and women's hoops and men's hockey. By the time I looked into it, one of the men's BB games was no longer available, but I did pick up tickets to the Houston game. They are up high, but it will still be a chance to see a top 25 team twenty minutes from home. We can go to dinner, see the game, and be home before ten on a Thursday night. Pretty good deal. Try Geno's restaurant for a good plate of pasta. |
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Post by timholycross on Feb 17, 2020 22:12:23 GMT -5
Re: Albany and Providence, I'll repeat what I've said here many times. HC is hurt by not being in its own Nielsen DMA. As part of the Boston market, HC likely gets very little mention on the nightly news broadcasts that most people in Worcester County watch. In contrast, I'll bet Providence and Siena get covered every night in the nightly news broadcasts that people in Providence and Albany watch. That has to be a significant factor. Does anybody watch them any more? Sports are an afterthought compared to the number of minutes they used to get. |
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Post by timholycross on Feb 17, 2020 22:17:44 GMT -5
While we contemplate how bad things are, know that all sorts of college programs are having problems. I received an email from UCONN today offering me $5 tickets to all remaining home games for men's and women's hoops and men's hockey. By the time I looked into it, one of the men's BB games was no longer available, but I did pick up tickets to the Houston game. They are up high, but it will still be a chance to see a top 25 team twenty minutes from home. We can go to dinner, see the game, and be home before ten on a Thursday night. Pretty good deal. The Big East will give them a shot in the arm. If it doesn't, then something is seriously wrong around there. |
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purple71
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 169
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Post by purple71 on Feb 18, 2020 17:56:00 GMT -5
Why are the fans in Albany area supporting the Franciscan, Catholic Siena over the secular, state run University of Albany? A few reasons, including the following. First, Siena has been a D1 program since 1976, playing many well-known programs. Albany only became a full D1 team in about 2001. Thus they started with a 25-year handicap. Secondly, Siena had the huge downtown TUC locked up as its home court long before Albany was even a D1 program. Albany has always played in an antiquated gym. Thirdly, Siena has been successful almost constantly since the mid-80's. Albany, in contrast, was awful until 2006 - and was rarely good until 2013. Thus Albany has always been viewed as the minor league team by most Albany fans. Actually, and I suspect I have more knowledge of the situation than you: One, the arena having been built by the County, without any state funding, is now a cash cow for the County As a long time season ticket holder I can vouch for the fact that it is not populated by lobbyists and in fact, none of any of the lobby firms even own a box or at least not that I have seen I know many of the lobbyists and a fair number of Legislators and they just don’t attend Siena games as opposed to concerts. Two, Siena draws because it plays in a league principally made up is similar sized Catholic schools. By way of example the Siena/Holy Cross game on a Sunday afternoon between Christmas and New Years drew the largest crowd up till that date drawing 10% more than American or mighty Bucknell. The MAAC’s contract with ESPN allows Siena awaygames on either ESPN+ or ESPNU with most home games shown on a small local TV station. That ESPN+ beats the hell out of Stadium TV. In the earliest days of the arena Siena took the entrepreneurial risk in playing in the arena, located 5 to 10 miles from its campus. Albany plays on campus and doesn’t draw well enough to risk the cost of playing in the arena. I have friends who have AlbAny season tickets and they are always there for the asking. Simply put, Albany has an essentially Patriot League level fan wise However, when it plays Siena in the arena, it is a huge show attracting 10,000. Currently Siena is averaging about 6200 fans a game although for the Manhattan game this past Sunday they experienced an amazing problem: m.timesunion.com/sports/article/Siena-criticized-for-turning-away-basketball-fans-15064641.phpAs my moniker would indicate, I am approaching Purple Knight status and vividly recall HC hoops pre-PL. I know there is no turning back but don’t make the PL seem like a good thing for HC hoop. In the pre-PL days I ran a bus to one HC game a year and easily filled it. Not any more. 2 or 3 years ago I ran a trip to Worcester for the HC/AlbAny game and only had 9 takers For the Siena game in Worcester, we simply signed up early to get a seat on the Siena bus. This year we ran a cocktail reception at the arena before the Siena game in the arena and drew about 100 Holy Cross fans so the spirit still lives. Hope HC continues its home and home series with Siena so the HV kids get to play in a big time arena with a great crowd in a competitive as opposed to guarantee game. |
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 18, 2020 19:41:18 GMT -5
My son's wedding was officiated by the Franciscan priest who was then the executive VP/executive assistant (forget the exact title) to the Siena president. Son's in-laws from Albany area with at least one neighbor who was a Siena alum and it seemed in that small sample that the locals were Siena fans rather than UAlb fans.
Just found it curious that there would be more/deeper fans for a small Catholic school than the big state university especially considering that many in the area are state employees.
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Post by bison137 on Feb 18, 2020 19:51:49 GMT -5
My son's wedding was officiated by the Franciscan priest who was then the executive VP/executive assistant (forget the exact title) to the Siena president. Son's in-laws from Albany area with at least one neighbor who was a Siena alum and it seemed in that small sample that the locals were Siena fans rather than UAlb fans. Just found it curious that there would be more/deeper fans for a small Catholic school than the big state university especially considering that many in the area are state employees. But the little Catholic school has been playing D1 ball 25 years longer, controls a huge taxpayer-built arena, and has been far more successful on the court. Those state employees are looking for entertainment and couldn't care less if Albany is a state school. When I have attended games in Albany, the average age of attendees at Siena games appeared to be much older than those at the UAlbany games - so things may gradually change over time. |
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Post by hc87 on Feb 18, 2020 22:52:35 GMT -5
Holy Cross could (and once did) have Providence type support but it has to be playing in the Big East.
Hoop won't be our marquee sport much longer playing in the Patriot League.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Feb 18, 2020 23:20:17 GMT -5
Every. Single. Thread.
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Post by hc87 on Feb 18, 2020 23:25:05 GMT -5
ACTP, enjoy being Bryant or Merrimack in hoop.....yes, I'm pissed...you should be too...no one cares about hoop at this level...enough with your condescending posts against me, you're not even an alumnus of HC
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Feb 18, 2020 23:30:59 GMT -5
Has been being pissed for 40 yrs done you any good?
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Post by hc87 on Feb 18, 2020 23:36:08 GMT -5
I know we are going absolutely nowhere in hoop in the PL..
Marquee sport?
Joke
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