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Post by bfoley82 on Feb 18, 2020 0:43:44 GMT -5
FYI - Reilly is not a walk-on. My point is Nelson is not getting the most out of this team. Coaching scared. Hoping to keep the score close. If you guys want to give him a pass, go ahead. He needs to use more of his roster. I am just using Reilly as an example of the type of player he should be getting more out of. This is the Patriot league for god sakes. This is NOT big time college basketball. (We missed out on the Big East years ago) Yes, it's the Patriot League, which is Division I basketball. Pardon my bluntness, but several guys on this roster would be better served in the NESCAC. Who said they would get playing time in the NESCAC?
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Feb 18, 2020 3:43:25 GMT -5
Would Billy Donovan make Ryan Wade a better player too, or just Joey R.? What is your point "Non Alum Dave" ? Obviously, Nelson has really improved Wade's game over the course of the season. How could I have missed that. I was only suggesting that Nelson might attempt to utilize other players on the team who might have some potential. This is not specifically about Reilly. You are making it about him and stating that he does not have the athletic ability to compete in the Patriot league. I disagree. It seems to me now would be the time to find out. I think if anyone has an agenda, it is Nelson. Maybe trying to run Reilly off the team. Remember, Nelson is only viewing this job as a stepping stone to bigger things. First league title, on to the big time. Ah, I am making this all about Reilly? How is that? Anyone that knows me knows I support everyone that puts on a HC uniform, including Joey Reilly. I also would like to see him get more playing time. You are the one that has used each one of your posts to focus on his situation. Please. Be honest with us- are you a Holy Cross fan first, or a fan of the player first? To be honest, I'm more baffled why Sandy has not even stepped on the court once this year (even last Saturday when DJH did), no matter how raw he might be.
As for the coach, I think its way to early to make definitive judgements on him. As for him using HC as a stepping stone - would that be unusual? You yourself pointed out to us that this is the PL, not the Big East. Why shouldn't he have ambition. If it's going to mean he gets us to the NCAAs, I say "Coach, use us like a giant purple trampoline! Make it hurt so good!" There's a lot at stake for him here; if he is a colossal flop he may never get another chance at a D-1 head job. I might not agree with every move he makes, but I have to think he's driven to succeed, and not out to screw any player just for kicks. Just my 2 pesos.
By the way, don't be so formal. Call me Dave or NAD.
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Post by possum on Feb 18, 2020 7:06:05 GMT -5
Yes it appears that Alum 85 has some type of tie to Reilly. While I have not been impressed by Reilly in his brief minutes I can see where a fan of his would be frustrated by the fact that despite the lack of able bodied players on a 3-24 team his guy gets basically no time. Why Reilly, Hart and Sandy get no minutes in hopeless situations makes no sense to me, I assume they work hard in practice and deserve to get some time when winning is no longer an option. Maybe Nelson thinks it's the way to build a culture that you play hard for 40 minutes but I don't think pressing the oppositions backup players in games where the outcome has been decided makes sense, particularly when it's at the expense of a little playing time for the end of the bench.
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Post by alum on Feb 18, 2020 8:07:35 GMT -5
With regard to Joey Reilly:
1. As a 45 year fan of East Catholic and a 40 year fan of HC, I was and remain excited about Reilly's appearance on the HC roster. I am hopeful that he succeeds but I am not as animated about this as hcalum85. 2. With the limited observation we have had, it does not seem to me that he can play point guard, but then again, I viewed him as more of a shooting guard anyway. In terms an East Catholic fan could understand, he isn't Joey Whelton. For that matter, he isn't Doug Melody either. 3. Reilly has seemed hesitant to pull the trigger when he has had a chance. As I was paying particular attention to him, I noticed multiple times early in the season when he passed on a chance to shoot. I don't know if that is on the coach's instructions (I hope not) or due to a lack of confidence, but he hasn't made himself indispensable. 4. I don't know if RW's shooting struggles are caused by fatigue or something else, but even his shot selection seems to be a problem lately. He is taking some tough defensive assignments and doing reasonably well there, but on offense he more often than not is standing in the corner and taking a shot every six minutes. That doesn't seem to be a winning strategy. I would envision Reilly's role as spelling RW, but since RW played 40 minutes again, that is not how he is being used. 5. It would appear that Reilly is going to get a chance down the stretch to show something. I am hopeful that he takes that opportunity and shines, that he gets bigger and stronger over the summer, that the new recruits bring a skill set which frees RW up to return to a shooter's role, that JR proves that he should share that spot with RW, that they both have great careers, that they graduate as friends, and that they sit together at games in 2045 and talk about the fact that they were there when Florida coach BN got his start.
I just don't understand why people get so angry here. I am in it for the fun.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 18, 2020 8:17:18 GMT -5
alum, nicely put. Thanks for the insight.
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Post by cfrivals on Feb 18, 2020 8:20:14 GMT -5
So if Regan was here, he fired SK for 22 losses and players complaining.
BN could have 29 losses and 2 or more transfers and 1 left the team. Would DR have given him a year 2??
This is just another miserable chapter in what has become HC BB. Very pathetic!
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 18, 2020 8:34:20 GMT -5
Nice job trying to select data carefully and using that select data to prove a pre-determined point of view. Are you really counting the two players who transferred before BN even arrived at HC against him? Why?
The players "revolt" against SK was not simply a minor point. It was the main reason for his dismissal, not the number of losses his team suffered. The players on this team seem to have "bought in" and are working their butts off for their coach and team. Does BN get plus points for that?
HC may well have 29 losses this year but, as many have pointed out, that number in this season means almost nothing. Do you remember the team unrest under SK?
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Post by HCFC45 on Feb 18, 2020 8:36:01 GMT -5
East Catholic CT Basketball boys here tonight. 7 of them sitting up behind HC bench.... Any prospects HC92? WOW! Can't believe my short innocent observation/post garnered this much back and forth conversation....
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Post by cfrivals on Feb 18, 2020 8:38:19 GMT -5
How many transferred? Are we done with transfers this year?? Time will tell Seems like a bit of upheaval here. 3-star point guards should not walk away from the program, better work should have been done there
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Post by WorcesterGray on Feb 18, 2020 8:45:59 GMT -5
3-star point guards should not walk away from the program, better work should have been done there Two points:
1. Of the three star-awarding sites on VC, ESPN''s is the least credible, and 2. PLEASE STOP.
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Post by classof83 on Feb 18, 2020 8:50:14 GMT -5
Didn't get to watch the game last night, but DVR'd it so I can watch when I get home - sounds like I shouldn't bother.
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Post by dadominate on Feb 18, 2020 8:53:03 GMT -5
So if Regan was here, he fired SK for 22 losses and players complaining. BN could have 29 losses and 2 or more transfers and 1 left the team. Would DR have given him a year 2?? This is just another miserable chapter in what has become HC BB. Very pathetic! interesting point regarding sk. don't think there's any way we would fire a coach after just one year again as that would look horrible. had a convo with a former dartmouth player last night who closely follows both ivy and pl basketball. as some posters may recall, dartmouth had a "my way or the highway" type of coach who drove many players away from the program that led to a boycott of sorts and his firing. something similar obviously happened with sk at hc, although the trigger wasn't pulled until the end of the season. nelson has lost as many players from the program than he has wins, and my buddy wondered how long a proud program like hc would tolerate that? we are the purple glass wearers here, but this season has been inexcusably bad no matter what the roster. it will be a few years before we can make a final judgment, but it's already clear that nelson is not the kind of coach who squeezes the most out of his players on the offensive or (especially) defensive end, nor does he manage minutes well (40 minutes for so many players who are not performing without at least a few for the bench guys makes no sense), nor can he adapt his approach to suit his personnel ala rw, who took an injury ravaged team and had them playing much better basketball as the season went on. we had glimpses of what rw was trying to accomplish. honestly, it's hard to know what nelson's approach is, other than cliches of playing hard, etc. we had plenty of that kind of talk with mb, yet no real offensive or defensive identity. btw, simply being committed to man to man defense, a zone, etc. is not an identity. it's how you do it that is the identity. hopefully nelson is the type of coach that needs all of his own guys to succeed. he's got some good players coming in. i'm cutting him slack in year one given the roster he started with, but if any other players defect or we have another season even remotely like this, serious concern will be in order.
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Post by dadominate on Feb 18, 2020 8:57:56 GMT -5
3-star point guards should not walk away from the program, better work should have been done there Two points:
1. Of the three star-awarding sites on VC, ESPN''s is the least credible, and 2. PLEASE STOP.
you can continue to dismiss this all you want woogray, but it is a completely reasonable point. there is now tremendous pressure on rj johnson to lead this team from day one as a freshman. and he will still be the only point guard on the roster. what do we do when he is in foul trouble... or god forbid he gets hurt... or god forbid he isn't ready?!? one could easily ask to please stop dismissing that huge threat to this basketball program.
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Post by cfrivals on Feb 18, 2020 8:58:47 GMT -5
Ok, all is well the 20 followers on this board after 12 years of this type of performance, can’t keep looking for the bright liner in the last place PL finishes, I personally have grown tired of it!
I have followed this program faithfully since 1978. Never understanding all the bad decisions that have been made over and over again. Hearing all the academic reasons why we can’t have this guy or that one. The better conferences are cesspools and we only want to be with our like partners, because we can never become Ivy.
This broken record just continues. What has HC BB become over last 10 years? A spiral of bad coaches, player suspensions, transfers, last place finishes.
One thing that is funny is NESN finally has aired many HC games this year and they were very unflattering performances, I had wished that the 2001-2007 teams had been aired on that network and we couldn’t get a sniff.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 18, 2020 9:26:20 GMT -5
So if Regan was here, he fired SK for 22 losses and players complaining. BN could have 29 losses and 2 or more transfers and 1 left the team. Would DR have given him a year 2?? This is just another miserable chapter in what has become HC BB. Very pathetic! Aside from Nelson and Kearney having virtually polar opposite personalities, comparing their two first-year teams is like comparing apples to tractor trailer trucks. The 2009-10 team was picked to finish first in the PL with 95 points -- 17 points clear of 2nd place Lehigh and 32 points clear of 3rd place Bucknell. That team received 13 of a possible 14 1st place votes. Keister and Evans were also named preseason All-PL (1st team). The 2019-20 team was picked to finish last in the PL with 21 points -- 20 points short of the 9th place team (Navy). Checking the PL preseason polls over the past 5 years, 21 points is the lowest total for any team. Apples to tractor trailer trucks. End.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 18, 2020 9:32:05 GMT -5
Ok, all is well the 20 followers on this board after 12 years of this type of performance, can’t keep looking for the bright liner in the last place PL finishes, I personally have grown tired of it! I have followed this program faithfully since 1978. Never understanding all the bad decisions that have been made over and over again. Hearing all the academic reasons why we can’t have this guy or that one. The better conferences are cesspools and we only want to be with our like partners, because we can never become Ivy. This broken record just continues. What has HC BB become over last 10 years? A spiral of bad coaches, player suspensions, transfers, last place finishes. One thing that is funny is NESN finally has aired many HC games this year and they were very unflattering performances, I had wished that the 2001-2007 teams had been aired on that network and we couldn’t get a sniff. Between NESN, CBS Sports Network, ESPN+, Spectrum1, we have great exposure in addition to the PLN in this year of all years. At least the announcers praise HC BB heritage on a regular basis.
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Post by cfrivals on Feb 18, 2020 9:32:34 GMT -5
Yes, but the truck is full of apples!
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 18, 2020 9:35:10 GMT -5
So if Regan was here, he fired SK for 22 losses and players complaining. BN could have 29 losses and 2 or more transfers and 1 left the team. Would DR have given him a year 2?? This is just another miserable chapter in what has become HC BB. Very pathetic! interesting point regarding sk. don't think there's any way we would fire a coach after just one year again as that would look horrible. had a convo with a former dartmouth player last night who closely follows both ivy and pl basketball. as some posters may recall, dartmouth had a "my way or the highway" type of coach who drove many players away from the program that led to a boycott of sorts and his firing. something similar obviously happened with sk at hc, although the trigger wasn't pulled until the end of the season. nelson has lost as many players from the program than he has wins, and my buddy wondered how long a proud program like hc would tolerate that? we are the purple glass wearers here, but this season has been inexcusably bad no matter what the roster. it will be a few years before we can make a final judgment, but i t's already clear that nelson is not the kind of coach who squeezes the most out of his players on the offensive or (especially) defensive end, nor does he manage minutes well (40 minutes for so many players who are not performing without at least a few for the bench guys makes no sense), nor can he adapt his approach to suit his personnel ala rw, who took an injury ravaged team and had them playing much better basketball as the season went on. we had glimpses of what rw was trying to accomplish. honestly, it's hard to know what nelson's approach is, other than cliches of playing hard, etc. we had plenty of that kind of talk with mb, yet no real offensive or defensive identity. btw, simply being committed to man to man defense, a zone, etc. is not an identity. it's how you do it that is the identity. hopefully nelson is the type of coach that needs all of his own guys to succeed. he's got some good players coming in. i'm cutting him slack in year one given the roster he started with, but if any other players defect or we have another season even remotely like this, serious concern will be in order. Acting like these are "clear" facts at this point is simply outrageous. Nelson inherited a program that was in horrendous shape -- last place in the PL last year, lost its 3 best players, nonexistent culture with multiple player expulsions, previous staff did not develop players, etc. etc. -- in July, long after he would be able to make some impact to the roster for Year 1. It was truly an impossible situation for Year 1. The results of this season mean absolutely nothing if it is leading to the culture change and roster reset that were so sorely needed. Nobody can predict if Nelson will be successful in coupling those two steps with the necessary wins down the road, but the idea that this program is in worse shape now than it was when he took over is just plain wrong.
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Post by DiMarz on Feb 18, 2020 9:39:50 GMT -5
Joe P. looked to be hobbling out in the lobby after the game.That would be the rotten cherry on this poison ivy sundae of a season. I could see the replay on the monitor at the game, looked like Joe took a knee to the area just above his knee. an he seemed to point that out to Caoch Nelson when he came off the floor..My guess it is a bruise, and Coach held him out of a blowout....
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 18, 2020 9:48:55 GMT -5
So if Regan was here, he fired SK for 22 losses and players complaining. BN could have 29 losses and 2 or more transfers and 1 left the team. Would DR have given him a year 2?? This is just another miserable chapter in what has become HC BB. Very pathetic! Aside from Nelson and Kearney having virtually polar opposite personalities, comparing their two first-year teams is like comparing apples to tractor trailer trucks. The 2009-10 team was picked to finish first in the PL with 95 points -- 17 points clear of 2nd place Lehigh and 32 points clear of 3rd place Bucknell. That team received 13 of a possible 14 1st place votes. Keister and Evans were also named preseason All-PL (1st team). The 2019-20 team was picked to finish last in the PL with 21 points -- 20 points short of the 9th place team (Navy). Checking the PL preseason polls over the past 5 years, 21 points is the lowest total for any team. Apples to tractor trailer trucks End. I like the realistic way you matched up the two teams.
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 18, 2020 9:49:02 GMT -5
This thread has seemed to devolve less about the specific game and more about the coach and his decisions.
I will start a new thread and suggest the conversation continue there.
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Post by trimster on Feb 18, 2020 9:58:26 GMT -5
Ok, all is well the 20 followers on this board after 12 years of this type of performance, can’t keep looking for the bright liner in the last place PL finishes, I personally have grown tired of it! I have followed this program faithfully since 1978. Never understanding all the bad decisions that have been made over and over again. Hearing all the academic reasons why we can’t have this guy or that one. The better conferences are cesspools and we only want to be with our like partners, because we can never become Ivy. This broken record just continues. What has HC BB become over last 10 years? A spiral of bad coaches, player suspensions, transfers, last place finishes. One thing that is funny is NESN finally has aired many HC games this year and they were very unflattering performances, I had wished that the 2001-2007 teams had been aired on that network and we couldn’t get a sniff. I couldn't agree more although I am on board with the Coach Nelson hire. I am optimistic he will get things turned around. Having said that, being an ardent HC follower for 55 years hasn't been a whole lot of fun. Even when George Blaney got things turned around in the early 90's, there was a huge black cloud hanging over the program in the form of no more scholarships. Obviously the Willard Era brought a restoration of pride in the basketball program. By the way, I don't think playing for RW was any day at the beach but the perception I get is many of his former players loved playing for him and realize he taught many valuable lessons. I so wish the Cross took him back after the Kearney firing but I understand why some people didn't want that. In the long run, it has hurt HC basketball greatly. I now look back at the Potter-Vicens-Perry and Doran era as one brief shining moment. I still have the SI preseason basketball magazines tucked away in the basement with HC picked 16th and then 9th in the '76-'77 and '77-'78 preseason top twenty. I realize decisions involving the hoops program were made not in a hoops only vacuum but in the larger context of the college and its mission but I never bought the elitist attitude of the power that be. I have grown tired of wandering in the hoops desert for 40 years, basically. My hope is before I leave this mortal coil, I get to see one more Ralph Willard-type run.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 18, 2020 10:25:31 GMT -5
You are not alone in that hope!
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Post by trimster on Feb 18, 2020 10:33:27 GMT -5
You are not alone in that hope! I think we have some pretty loyal fans and more will come if we win, even in the PL.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 18, 2020 10:35:11 GMT -5
With regard to Joey Reilly: 1. As a 45 year fan of East Catholic and a 40 year fan of HC, I was and remain excited about Reilly's appearance on the HC roster. I am hopeful that he succeeds but I am not as animated about this as hcalum85. 2. With the limited observation we have had, it does not seem to me that he can play point guard, but then again, I viewed him as more of a shooting guard anyway. In terms an East Catholic fan could understand, he isn't Joey Whelton. For that matter, he isn't Doug Melody either. 3. Reilly has seemed hesitant to pull the trigger when he has had a chance. As I was paying particular attention to him, I noticed multiple times early in the season when he passed on a chance to shoot. I don't know if that is on the coach's instructions (I hope not) or due to a lack of confidence, but he hasn't made himself indispensable.4. I don't know if RW's shooting struggles are caused by fatigue or something else, but even his shot selection seems to be a problem lately. He is taking some tough defensive assignments and doing reasonably well there, but on offense he more often than not is standing in the corner and taking a shot every six minutes. That doesn't seem to be a winning strategy. I would envision Reilly's role as spelling RW, but since RW played 40 minutes again, that is not how he is being used. 5. It would appear that Reilly is going to get a chance down the stretch to show something. I am hopeful that he takes that opportunity and shines, that he gets bigger and stronger over the summer, that the new recruits bring a skill set which frees RW up to return to a shooter's role, that JR proves that he should share that spot with RW, that they both have great careers, that they graduate as friends, and that they sit together at games in 2045 and talk about the fact that they were there when Florida coach BN got his start. I just don't understand why people get so angry here. I am in it for the fun. Joey has taken 3.1 Field Goal Attempts per 40 minutes. I'd guess that may make him the most reluctant shooter HC has had in recent memory. A team's average is typically 10 or 11 shots per man per 40 minutes. In my book 6.0 or 7.0 would be a good benchmark for really reluctant to shoot. I don't know that we've seen a player lower than 5.0 before. For comparison, Lincoln Yeutter is 7.0 for the year and CLS is at 7.2. I'll bet CLS has been shooting more of late--playing a different role and perhaps more confident. Joey's 3.1 is troubling to me.
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