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Post by sader1970 on Feb 18, 2020 9:54:32 GMT -5
OK, we have a young head coach with no prior head coaching experience. Let's review history since Ralph left us:
Sean Kearney: no head coaching experience. A long history of being an assistant. Why had he never gotten a shot as head coach anywhere else? Hands-off style.
Milan Brown: Perhaps seen as the anti-Kearney? Head coaching experience (successful? semi-successful?) and young. Very hands-on.
Bill Carmody: The anti-Brown? Old already. Lots of head coaching experience. Known for not liking the recruiting parts of coaching.
Brett Nelson: The anti-Carmody? Young, Very young. No head coaching experience. Unlike all the others, was an outstanding player.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 18, 2020 9:58:54 GMT -5
Interesting Reader's Digest type summary. What conclusions do you draw from the differences you cite?
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 18, 2020 10:06:14 GMT -5
I've got my cervical collar on. These coaching hires have a way of defining an AD's tenure. But, Chesney balances Pine and Willard balances DR. I'm rooting for both BN and MB to succeed...
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 18, 2020 10:09:07 GMT -5
My conclusion? We have an institutional habit of "over-correcting" like a free-throw shooter whose first shot is a little short and bounces off the front rim, so his second shot he over-corrects and shoots it long off the back rim.
Look, I don't have the answers otherwise I would have been an athletic director.
Looking for common ground here, this season has been the worst in anyone's memory and likely the worst ever in the 120 year history of Holy Cross basketball. There are lots of reasons for that but almost all are due to human error. Unlike in some past seasons where we've lost key players due to injuries, this one seems to be due to poor recruiting (no, Admissions hasn't made it any tougher than in the past), and much more likely a combination of decisions made by both the immediate past coach and the current coach.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 18, 2020 10:10:33 GMT -5
Alternate descriptions:
Sean Kearney: Did not have a presence to command a locker room, too disorganized to be a head coach, decent recruiter.
Milan Brown: Decent recruiter, poor X's & O's, did not really "get" Holy Cross.
Bill Carmody: Poor recruiter, disinterested in virtually everything except his players making more shots.
Brett Nelson: TBD -- early returns are that he can recruit and is focused on culture and fundamentals, which are sorely needing an overhaul. Coaching chops will be determined when he has a suitable D1 roster.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 18, 2020 10:14:55 GMT -5
We have no idea whether Nelson is a good recruiter or not.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 18, 2020 10:21:45 GMT -5
We have no idea whether Nelson is a good recruiter or not. Certainly not yet. The abilities of incoming class of recruits should start to paint a picture in that regard. The two posts offering capsule views of recent coaches seem to compliment each other pretty well...perhaps one post combining them would be in order. The only thing I would alter is that Carmody did bring in his Princeton-type offense and that was a major change. Did it help bring in that PLT championship and NCAA win at the end of his first year? Perhaps. |
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Post by trimster on Feb 18, 2020 10:30:10 GMT -5
We have no idea whether Nelson is a good recruiter or not. Certainly not yet. The abilities of incoming class of recruits should start to paint a picture in that regard. The two posts offering capsule views of recent coaches seem to compliment each other pretty well...perhaps one post combining them would be in order. The only thing I would alter is that Carmody did bring in his Princeton-type offense and that was a major change. Did it help bring in that PLT championship and NCAA win at the end of his first year? Perhaps. Nothing against Carmody but he brought a very passive style of play to Holy Cross basketball which really turned me off as a follower. Don't foul, shoot threes, don't rebound. My jaw almost hit the floor when he said in a pregame, if we can stay within 10 rebounds of BU, we have a chance to win. |
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 18, 2020 10:36:01 GMT -5
Alternate descriptions: Sean Kearney: Did not have a presence to command a locker room, too disorganized to be a head coach, decent recruiter. Milan Brown: Decent recruiter, poor X's & O's, did not really "get" Holy Cross. Bill Carmody: Poor recruiter, disinterested in virtually everything except his players making more shots. Brett Nelson: TBD -- early returns are that he can recruit and is focused on culture and fundamentals, which are sorely needing an overhaul. Coaching chops will be determined when he has a suitable D1 roster. Good analysis. Milan had a fine personality, positive spirit and work ethic. He just didn't have Willard's way above average experience and coaching skill, which it appears now is necessary for HC to excel in and out of the PL. I would rank him second behind Ralph of the coaches mentioned with Nelson getting an incomplete. |
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Post by hceconhist on Feb 18, 2020 10:37:42 GMT -5
OK, we have a young head coach with no prior head coaching experience. Let's review history since Ralph left us: Sean Kearney: no head coaching experience. A long history of being an assistant. Why had he never gotten a shot as head coach anywhere else? Hands-off style. Milan Brown: Perhaps seen as the anti-Kearney? Head coaching experience (successful? semi-successful?) and young. Very hands-on. Bill Carmody: The anti-Brown? Old already. Lots of head coaching experience. Known for not liking the recruiting parts of coaching. Brett Nelson: The anti-Carmody? Young, Very young. No head coaching experience. Unlike all the others, was an outstanding player. Your main point is more-or-less correct: HC has consistently sought to hire an "opposite" of the predecessor. One point with which I disagree is Brett Nelson being the only former outstanding player: Howard retired Milan Brown's number. |
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Post by hceconhist on Feb 18, 2020 10:40:23 GMT -5
Alternate descriptions: Sean Kearney: Did not have a presence to command a locker room, too disorganized to be a head coach, decent recruiter. Milan Brown: Decent recruiter, poor X's & O's, did not really "get" Holy Cross. Bill Carmody: Poor recruiter, disinterested in virtually everything except his players making more shots. Brett Nelson: TBD -- early returns are that he can recruit and is focused on culture and fundamentals, which are sorely needing an overhaul. Coaching chops will be determined when he has a suitable D1 roster. As SoV said, we have no idea if Brett Nelson can recruit well. We will also never know how good of a recruiter Kearney would have been. Given the one class he did recruit, there is evidence to suggest he would've been a good-to-great recruiter. |
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 18, 2020 10:40:46 GMT -5
Thanks for that reminder about MB.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Feb 18, 2020 10:41:53 GMT -5
Alternate descriptions: Sean Kearney: Did not have a presence to command a locker room, too disorganized to be a head coach, decent recruiter. Milan Brown: Decent recruiter, poor X's & O's, did not really "get" Holy Cross.Bill Carmody: Poor recruiter, disinterested in virtually everything except his players making more shots. Brett Nelson: TBD -- early returns are that he can recruit and is focused on culture and fundamentals, which are sorely needing an overhaul. Coaching chops will be determined when he has a suitable D1 roster. Disagree that Milan didn't "get" HC. He and his staff were totally committed to their kids on and off the court. All of his recruits (except a homesick Hahn) stayed and graduated from HC. Three in particular - Chris Morgan, Marcellis Perkins, and Jehyve Floyd - became high-profile leaders in the campus community, and mentors. After he was terminated, Kevin Robinson contacted folks in academic affairs to ask that they be particularly aware of and shepherd Floyd, who was nervous and uncomfortable as an incoming freshman.
I think Nelson also "gets" (and wants players that get) Holy Cross' larger presence and mission beyond the basketball court.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 18, 2020 10:44:13 GMT -5
We have no idea whether Nelson is a good recruiter or not. Certainly not yet. The abilities of incoming class of recruits should start to paint a picture in that regard. The two posts offering capsule views of recent coaches seem to compliment each other pretty well...perhaps one post combining them would be in order. The only thing I would alter is that Carmody did bring in his Princeton-type offense and that was a major change. Did it help bring in that PLT championship and NCAA win at the end of his first year? Perhaps. I remember the PLT/NCAA run being credited to Eric Green getting healthy and having the athletic skill to spearhead the 1-3-1 defense that Carmody installed for the PLT. Fortunately Green chose to graduate with his classmates and make the run with them when he had a chance at a medical red shirt instead which would have ended his season. |
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 18, 2020 10:49:12 GMT -5
I also remember that some blamed for "wasting" a scholarship on Eric. Looks like he had the last laugh.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 18, 2020 10:49:36 GMT -5
I also remember that some posters here blamed MB for "wasting" a scholarship on Eric. Looks like both MB and Eric had the last laugh.
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Post by hceconhist on Feb 18, 2020 10:53:32 GMT -5
Alternate descriptions: Sean Kearney: Did not have a presence to command a locker room, too disorganized to be a head coach, decent recruiter. Milan Brown: Decent recruiter, poor X's & O's, did not really "get" Holy Cross. Bill Carmody: Poor recruiter, disinterested in virtually everything except his players making more shots. Brett Nelson: TBD -- early returns are that he can recruit and is focused on culture and fundamentals, which are sorely needing an overhaul. Coaching chops will be determined when he has a suitable D1 roster. Good analysis. Milan had a fine personality, positive spirit and work ethic. He just didn't have Willard's way above average experience and coaching skill, which it appears now is necessary for HC to excel in and out of the PL. I would rank him second behind Ralph of the coaches mentioned with Nelson getting an incomplete. He also did not have significant scholarship advantage. Not to be picky, but that has to be included in RW's legacy. |
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 18, 2020 10:54:18 GMT -5
Alternate descriptions: Sean Kearney: Did not have a presence to command a locker room, too disorganized to be a head coach, decent recruiter. Milan Brown: Decent recruiter, poor X's & O's, did not really "get" Holy Cross.Bill Carmody: Poor recruiter, disinterested in virtually everything except his players making more shots. Brett Nelson: TBD -- early returns are that he can recruit and is focused on culture and fundamentals, which are sorely needing an overhaul. Coaching chops will be determined when he has a suitable D1 roster. Disagree that Milan didn't "get" HC. He and his staff were totally committed to their kids on and off the court. All of his recruits (except a homesick Hahn) stayed and graduated from HC. Three in particular - Chris Morgan, Marcellis Perkins, and Jehyve Floyd - became high-profile leaders in the campus community, and mentors. After he was terminated, Kevin Robinson contacted folks in academic affairs to ask that they be particularly aware of and care for Floyd, who was nervous and uncomfortable as an incoming freshman.
I think Nelson also "gets" (and wants players that get) Holy Cross' larger presence and mission beyond the basketball court.
Yes, Milan got HC. Ralph was an HC grad so he obviously got HC but he wasn't as outgoing as Milan. Ralph "got" PL basketball and how HC could excel in the league and he could implement his understanding. That's a tall order for Nelson to match but we are all behind him... |
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Post by bison137 on Feb 18, 2020 10:57:13 GMT -5
Certainly not yet. The abilities of incoming class of recruits should start to paint a picture in that regard. The two posts offering capsule views of recent coaches seem to compliment each other pretty well...perhaps one post combining them would be in order. The only thing I would alter is that Carmody did bring in his Princeton-type offense and that was a major change. Did it help bring in that PLT championship and NCAA win at the end of his first year? Perhaps. I remember the PLT/NCAA run being credited to Eric Green getting healthy and having the athletic skill to spearhead the 1-3-1 defense that Carmody installed for the PLT. Not sure exactly when Carmody started using the 1-3-1, but I know he used it a lot versus Bucknell in Worcester in their regular season game in early February. |
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 18, 2020 11:00:39 GMT -5
Thanks for "getting" my major point. As for "outstanding player," despite the honors from Howard, Milan was not "outstanding" (admittedly a subjective term), but would agree a "very good" player. Brett played on a nationally ranked team and did well there. Howard, not so much.
As for that post that Milan not "getting" Holy Cross, that is ridiculous.
Mostly we are giving Brett Nelson a pass on this year (some posters excepted). Next season, he "owns it" as far as I'm concerned as I don't subscribe to my friend HC70's 4-5 year suspended report card.
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Post by hchoops on Feb 18, 2020 11:01:32 GMT -5
Carmody started using the 1-3-1 at Princeton
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Post by DiMarz on Feb 18, 2020 11:02:58 GMT -5
Carmody used the 1-3-1 for a good par of the season, not full time but in spots, it didn't flourish until Green was healthy and on the court full time..
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 18, 2020 11:05:48 GMT -5
From my often defective memory, which I am sure other posters will correct, Carmody was quoted after the tournament run about the 1-3-1 and said that he had tried it earlier in the season and it just didn't work and he abandoned it. At tournament time, perhaps a little earlier at the end of the regular season, one of his assistants (don't recall if he said which one or I am just forgetting who it was), suggested they re-install it as they didn't have much to lose. Green came back, it worked, the rest is history.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Feb 18, 2020 11:05:56 GMT -5
Mostly we are giving Brett Nelson a pass on this year (some posters excepted). Next season, he "owns it" as far as I'm concerned as I don't subscribe to my friend HC70's 4-5 year suspended report card. Agree 100%. |
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Post by WorcesterGray on Feb 18, 2020 11:16:13 GMT -5
From my often defective memory, which I am sure other posters will correct, Carmody was quoted after the tournament run about the 1-3-1 and said that he had tried it earlier in the season and it just didn't work and he abandoned it. Your memory is just fine. I remember vividly the game against a terrible Maine team - when HC "sprung" the 1-3-1, Maine reacted instantly and correctly, and shredded it. We were incredibly lucky to escape with a 76-75 win.
Without Green, it was always a poor gimmick.
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