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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 14, 2020 19:56:32 GMT -5
Could some one provide clarification for this non-econ major at HC: are we mentioning Coronavirus here because of the economic impact of the stock market on endowment as well as schools' liquid assets? The college expects to have a net operating loss of at least several million dollars in the fiscal year ending June 30. This is the first operating loss in over 50 years. The endowment will have a lower value, how much lower is uncertain , but it could be ten percent or more. The financial consequences of this will appear in fiscal year 2021-22, when the amount of endowment monies used for operating the college will be less. Liquidity is not a factor. The college's greatest financial concern is the expected need for additional financial aid, both for current students and newly enrolling students. This is a result of the severe economic downturn on the finances of many families. Comparing what HC currently spends on men's ice hockey with what Providence, Northeastern, BC, and BU spend as members of HE, HC would need to spend about $2 million more than it does now to reach parity with these four schools. None of these four schools rent their ice. So that is an additional, significant cost for HC. I expect that joining HE is so low on the college's list of priorities as to be invisible. If you were to take HE membership before the BoT and TPTB, you are very likely to be thrown out on your ear, given the current financial environment.
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Post by longsuffering on May 14, 2020 20:23:10 GMT -5
Hopefully that invitation will arrive sooner rather than later. Frankly, it would be the largest commitment to Athletics we’ve seen in years. The Luth provides a great infrastructure and Hockey East will provide the product. In other sports, the PL may allow us to be the best version of ourselves, but does little to the HC brand. A move to HE tilts the scale and puts Athletics back on the up. I love hockey and would love to see us in HE. That said, I don’t know that it really does a ton for the school unless we are consistently a top team in Hockey East which would be a very tall order for a number of reasons. There’s also no way the better teams in HE are going to agree to play in the Hart Center in its current form. Maybe if we could bump it to 3000 somehow but no chance at 1600 with no modern amenities. Actually, winning the AHA and playing in the NCAA tournament might provide more positive marketing for HC than losing in HE. They say all publicity is good publicity but more media exposure painting Holy Cross as hapless is a mixed blessing.
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Post by matunuck on May 15, 2020 8:52:59 GMT -5
HE is really about the annual team budget. PP's number is right. Average HE spending is 1.5 m with top schools averaging 2.1 m. We would need a new infusion of donor-directed cash that puts us in between those two numbers so we wouldn't become perennial bottom dwellers with little chance of an NCAA berth.
On the upcoming schedule with non-league schools, hearing UMASS, Northeastern, BU, Clarkson, and UNH. Return game @asu postponed. Don't surprised to see UNH and BU playing at the Hart.
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Post by hc17 on May 15, 2020 9:01:44 GMT -5
If those schools are on the OOC schedule, that'd be awesome. While I'm sure they are different, does anyone know the financial impact of bringing the women's team to HE?
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Post by HC92 on May 15, 2020 13:09:16 GMT -5
HE is really about the annual team budget. PP's number is right. Average HE spending is 1.5 m with top schools averaging 2.1 m. We would need a new infusion of donor-directed cash that puts us in between those two numbers so we wouldn't become perennial bottom dwellers with little chance of an NCAA berth. On the upcoming schedule with non-league schools, hearing UMASS, Northeastern, BU, Clarkson, and UNH. Return game @asu postponed. Don't surprised to see UNH and BU playing at the Hart. Do you think admissions issues might cause us problems trying to recruit at a Hockey East level? With a few exceptions, the HE schools have lower admissions standards than HC for regular students. On top of that, I assume most member schools with high admissions standards such as BC have broad flexibility to bring in top players who otherwise wouldn’t be considered based on their academic merits.
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Post by matunuck on May 15, 2020 13:20:36 GMT -5
No doubt, HC92. Though, right now HC’s primary competition in terms of recruits is the Ivies and other ECAC schools. A few of the recruits we’d ordinarily lose to these schools may choose HC if we had a HE affiliation. Really do believe it is money issue, first and foremost.
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Post by HC92 on May 15, 2020 13:26:54 GMT -5
No doubt, HC92. Though, right now HC’s primary competition in terms of recruits is the Ivies and other ECAC schools. A few of the recruits we’d ordinarily lose to these schools may choose HC if we had a HE affiliation. Really do believe it is money issue, first and foremost. Thats a good point. Our recruiting pool may actually deepen relative to where it is today for the high academic kids as we’d have a chance against the ECAC schools where we might not in AHA. Whether that would be enough to allow us to compete successfully against HE schools who are already fishing in a much deeper pond due to lower academic requirements and better hockey history is another issue.
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Post by hc17 on May 15, 2020 14:47:45 GMT -5
Do we think the admissions standards of AHA are really better than HE? To be honest, I’d rather be affiliated with HE members.
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Post by HC92 on May 15, 2020 15:55:22 GMT -5
Do we think the admissions standards of AHA are really better than HE? To be honest, I’d rather be affiliated with HE members. Agree. I think part of our challenge in AHA is that the academic standards of many of the schools are not very high. I worry that we’d have that challenge to some degree in HE combined with a much harder schedule. Could lead to poor results unless the school is “all in” to make it work.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on May 15, 2020 17:45:54 GMT -5
You think the AFA, AWP, and Bentley for example let it jamokes?
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Post by HC92 on May 15, 2020 18:31:59 GMT -5
You think the AFA, AWP, and Bentley for example let it jamokes? Academic standards at “many” AHA schools are not high. AFA and AWP are the only two schools in the conference harder to get into than HC. And those schools are free and unhindered by scholarship limits which provides some recruiting advantages. In HE, BC and Northeastern are harder to get into than HC (I am told this so don’t shoot the messenger if it’s not correct). BU is also pretty tough even though AOC somehow got in.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on May 15, 2020 18:35:21 GMT -5
So then it's even.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 15, 2020 18:41:37 GMT -5
If those schools are on the OOC schedule, that'd be awesome. While I'm sure they are different, does anyone know the financial impact of bringing the women's team to HE? The net cost of that is hard to determine because when the women were playing Div III, x number of women were receiving $Y dollars of need-based aid, which is expensed as $0 on the balance sheet. In 2015-16, women's hockey expenses: BC $1,803M BU $1.920M HC $478K In 2018-19, women's hockey expenses: BC $2.167M BU $2.338M HC $1.309M (part way to the scollie cap) In 2018-19, men's hockey expenses BC $4.519M BU $3.283M HC $1.838M In 2018-19, M/W basketball expenses HC men $2.287M HC women $1.922M
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Post by HC92 on May 15, 2020 18:46:12 GMT -5
I haven’t compared the whole list but they probably aren’t that far apart. Maybe a slight edge to HE because BU is a strong third in HE. Not sure who would be third in AHA if HC wasn’t a member. Probably Bentley. Providence and Bentley are similar in terms of academic standards.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on May 15, 2020 18:58:09 GMT -5
You just reinforced my point.
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Post by beachbound on May 15, 2020 19:55:17 GMT -5
You think the AFA, AWP, and Bentley for example let it jamokes? These are the only 3 schools we compete with on recruits. Two of those schools are free. The 3rd just built a beautiful on campus arena around the same time we built the Luth, that did nothing to the hockey facility. Difficult to compete in a league where 7 schools can recruit players that have no shot getting into HC and the other 3 have a cost and commitment advantage over HC.
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Post by beachbound on May 15, 2020 20:05:57 GMT -5
If those schools are on the OOC schedule, that'd be awesome. While I'm sure they are different, does anyone know the financial impact of bringing the women's team to HE? The net cost of that is hard to determine because when the women were playing Div III, x number of women were receiving $Y dollars of need-based aid, which is expensed as $0 on the balance sheet. In 2015-16, women's hockey expenses: BC $1,803M BU $1.920M HC $478K In 2018-19, women's hockey expenses: BC $2.167M BU $2.338M HC $1.309M (part way to the scollie cap) In 2018-19, men's hockey expenses BC $4.519M BU $3.283M HC $1.838M In 2018-19, M/W basketball expenses HC men $2.287M HC women $1.922M Would be very curious to see a line by line breakdown of these expenses. 18 scholarships at ~$75k is $1.35mm, we spend less than $500k on coaches, equipment managers, recruiting, etc. I know the CAF has delivered between $200-350k per annum to the Hockey programs. We seem low and would love to see what these other programs are spending on beyond scholarships and coaches.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on May 15, 2020 20:14:47 GMT -5
You think the AFA, AWP, and Bentley for example let it jamokes? These are the only 3 schools we compete with on recruits. Two of those schools are free. The 3rd just built a beautiful on campus arena around the same time we built the Luth, that did nothing to the hockey facility. Difficult to compete in a league where 7 schools can recruit players that have no shot getting into HC and the other 3 have a cost and commitment advantage over HC. Wrong. HC does compete with AHA schools other than these three for recruits, including one I know personally who chose Niagara over HC about 6 years ago.
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Post by beachbound on May 15, 2020 20:21:18 GMT -5
The net cost of that is hard to determine because when the women were playing Div III, x number of women were receiving $Y dollars of need-based aid, which is expensed as $0 on the balance sheet. In 2015-16, women's hockey expenses: BC $1,803M BU $1.920M HC $478K In 2018-19, women's hockey expenses: BC $2.167M BU $2.338M HC $1.309M (part way to the scollie cap) In 2018-19, men's hockey expenses BC $4.519M BU $3.283M HC $1.838M In 2018-19, M/W basketball expenses HC men $2.287M HC women $1.922M Would be very curious to see a line by line breakdown of these expenses. 18 scholarships at ~$75k is $1.35mm, we spend less than $500k on coaches, equipment managers, recruiting, etc. I know the CAF has delivered between $200-350k per annum to the Hockey programs. We seem low and would love to see what these other programs are spending on beyond scholarships and coaches. As a grad, I understand the importance of men’s and women’s basketball programs to HC and the priority in funding over Hockey; however, from the perspective of a recruit, they don’t have my perspective and will more likely than not pick a school where hockey is a bigger priority.
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Post by beachbound on May 15, 2020 20:22:54 GMT -5
These are the only 3 schools we compete with on recruits. Two of those schools are free. The 3rd just built a beautiful on campus arena around the same time we built the Luth, that did nothing to the hockey facility. Difficult to compete in a league where 7 schools can recruit players that have no shot getting into HC and the other 3 have a cost and commitment advantage over HC. Wrong. HC does compete with AHA schools other than these three for recruits, including one I know personally who chose Niagara over HC about 6 years ago. I am not making this up, this is what ADMB and HCDB told us yesterday
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 15, 2020 20:31:58 GMT -5
The net cost of that is hard to determine because when the women were playing Div III, x number of women were receiving $Y dollars of need-based aid, which is expensed as $0 on the balance sheet. In 2015-16, women's hockey expenses: BC $1,803M BU $1.920M HC $478K In 2018-19, women's hockey expenses: BC $2.167M BU $2.338M HC $1.309M (part way to the scollie cap) In 2018-19, men's hockey expenses BC $4.519M BU $3.283M HC $1.838M In 2018-19, M/W basketball expenses HC men $2.287M HC women $1.922M Would be very curious to see a line by line breakdown of these expenses. 18 scholarships at ~$75k is $1.35mm, we spend less than $500k on coaches, equipment managers, recruiting, etc. I know the CAF has delivered between $200-350k per annum to the Hockey programs. We seem low and would love to see what these other programs are spending on beyond scholarships and coaches. What you need is a copy of HC's and BC's annual revenue and expenses report to the NCAA. I have never seen one from a private college or university. Some states have laws that require public universities to make such reports public. gopsusports.com/documents/2019/3/26/2017_18_NCAA_Financial_Report_Final.pdf^^^This is a link to PSU's report for fiscal year 2018. The expenses by category and team start on p. 41. The cost of scolllie aid is cheap, because state institutions' have a significantly lower cost of attendance.
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Post by beachbound on May 15, 2020 20:34:50 GMT -5
Would be very curious to see a line by line breakdown of these expenses. 18 scholarships at ~$75k is $1.35mm, we spend less than $500k on coaches, equipment managers, recruiting, etc. I know the CAF has delivered between $200-350k per annum to the Hockey programs. We seem low and would love to see what these other programs are spending on beyond scholarships and coaches. What you need is a copy of HC's and BC's annual revenue and expenses report to the NCAA. I have never seen one from a private college or university. Some states have laws that require public universities to make such reports public. gopsusports.com/documents/2019/3/26/2017_18_NCAA_Financial_Report_Final.pdf^^^This is a link to PSU's report for fiscal year 2018. The expenses by category and team start on p. 41. The cost of scolllie aid is cheap, because state institutions' have a significantly lower cost of attendance. Thank you!
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 15, 2020 20:36:30 GMT -5
Wrong. HC does compete with AHA schools other than these three for recruits, including one I know personally who chose Niagara over HC about 6 years ago. I am not making this up, this is what ADMB and HCDB told us yesterday Was this a webimar for supporters of HC ice hockey? Were there questions about playing at the DCU, and/or joining HE?
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Post by beachbound on May 15, 2020 20:47:08 GMT -5
I am not making this up, this is what ADMB and HCDB told us yesterday Was this a webimar for supporters of HC ice hockey? Were there questions about playing at the DCU, and/or joining HE? Yes, you, longsuffering and matunuck basically hit the key points in earlier posts. Goal for the program is to make the NCAAs. ADMB feels the path is easier from Atlantic Hockey than HE. We will not have the funding to be competitive in HE (unless donors provide those funds), so we will stay in Atlantic Hockey. And we are not close to getting an invitation to HE anyways. Pretty disappointing considering our commitment to women’s hockey by joining HE that there was not some reciprocal deal for the men’s team. Some questions on recruiting and why we can’t replicate AIC and Sacred Heart, and that prompted my response above.
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Post by HC92 on May 15, 2020 21:14:27 GMT -5
You just reinforced my point. Thanks. I try to be open-minded to other points of view. Some consider it a strength.
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