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Post by HC92 on May 15, 2020 21:20:24 GMT -5
Was this a webimar for supporters of HC ice hockey? Were there questions about playing at the DCU, and/or joining HE? Yes, you, longsuffering and matunuck basically hit the key points in earlier posts. Goal for the program is to make the NCAAs. ADMB feels the path is easier from Atlantic Hockey than HE. We will not have the funding to be competitive in HE (unless donors provide those funds), so we will stay in Atlantic Hockey. And we are not close to getting an invitation to HE anyways. Pretty disappointing considering our commitment to women’s hockey by joining HE that there was not some reciprocal deal for the men’s team. Some questions on recruiting and why we can’t replicate AIC and Sacred Heart, and that prompted my response above. Wow. I dialed into two prior calls with ADMB and got nothing tangible in the way of news. This is big news. Was hoping we’d get some big positive news but at least we don’t need to read polls about HE membership anymore. |
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on May 15, 2020 21:22:01 GMT -5
Not true that "HC isn't close" to getting a HE invite.
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Post by beachbound on May 15, 2020 22:06:32 GMT -5
Not true that "HC isn't close" to getting a HE invite. ADMB did not address where the HE ADs, current coaches and the new commissioner are in their process to add new members, so what you are saying could be true ( and I hope you are right). But ADMB did say that the former commissioner was trying to get HC in the discussion with the AD’s and the coaches and it had not progressed. Also, ADMB did make it clear that without additional funding to the tune of $2mm+ per annum from donors, he plans to keep the program in Atlantic Hockey. As a former player and someone who contributes financially to the program, I would love to see HC join HE for Men’s Hockey. In the last 2 yrs, we have had teams that have not been successful but have had packed houses for PC, UMASS (2 Frozen Four teams) and ASU and have been competitive with them. HE would open up recruiting to potentially players like HCDB’s sons and other players that opt for Ivy League programs, stronger ECAC programs and other recruits that go to BC, BU, PC and Northeastern that struggle for playing time. But we don’t have the financial resources as a college to make that happens which has been even more negatively impacted by COVID—19. So Based on ADMB remarks, I don’t see a new on campus facility coming nor a financial commitment from the college to utilize the DCU center to make HE a reality. Hope I am wrong, but I am not expecting many changes to the program. Also, ADMB was very complimentary to HCDB as well. |
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Post by bfoley82 on May 16, 2020 2:38:23 GMT -5
I haven’t compared the whole list but they probably aren’t that far apart. Maybe a slight edge to HE because BU is a strong third in HE. Not sure who would be third in AHA if HC wasn’t a member. Probably Bentley. Providence and Bentley are similar in terms of academic standards. Providence also keeps the hockey team on campus for training throughout the summer and they usually two semesters of classes then when the regular school year comes around, they go to school less (aka don’t take a full class load) but still full-time. |
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Post by bfoley82 on May 16, 2020 2:40:08 GMT -5
Not true that "HC isn't close" to getting a HE invite. ADMB did not address where the HE ADs, current coaches and the new commissioner are in their process to add new members, so what you are saying could be true ( and I hope you are right). But ADMB did say that the former commissioner was trying to get HC in the discussion with the AD’s and the coaches and it had not progressed. Also, ADMB did make it clear that without additional funding to the tune of $2mm+ per annum from donors, he plans to keep the program in Atlantic Hockey. As a former player and someone who contributes financially to the program, I would love to see HC join HE for Men’s Hockey. In the last 2 yrs, we have had teams that have not been successful but have had packed houses for PC, UMASS (2 Frozen Four teams) and ASU and have been competitive with them. HE would open up recruiting to potentially players like HCDB’s sons and other players that opt for Ivy League programs, stronger ECAC programs and other recruits that go to BC, BU, PC and Northeastern that struggle for playing time. But we don’t have the financial resources as a college to make that happens which has been even more negatively impacted by COVID—19. So Based on ADMB remarks, I don’t see a new on campus facility coming nor a financial commitment from the college to utilize the DCU center to make HE a reality. Hope I am wrong, but I am not expecting many changes to the program. Also, ADMB was very complimentary to HCDB as well. Berard’s kids were never going to Holy Cross. They are a legacy thing for PC with the mother also being a PC grad. |
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Post by bigfan on May 16, 2020 6:43:28 GMT -5
If the statement by ADMB is that he wants to keep HC in Atlantic Hockey is true then we hired the wrong man to run the athletic department.
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Post by longsuffering on May 16, 2020 8:12:01 GMT -5
If the statement by ADMB is that he wants to keep HC in Atlantic Hockey is true then we hired the wrong man to run the athletic department. Meaning the right person would have the fundraising skills to extract an extra two million a year from donors to pay for HC being competitive in HE? |
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Post by Crucis#1 on May 16, 2020 8:25:12 GMT -5
Strategically makes sense at this time.
Two million extra a year is not chump change. Guess it depends on your perspective, but would need a sustainable long term pool of cash through an endowment to ensure proper funding.
For an extra two million, the dollars could be used to strengthen existing programs through scholarships and coaches salaries.
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Post by timholycross on May 16, 2020 8:37:09 GMT -5
It doesn't make sense to disparage AH even if there was some (or a significant) chance you were leaving it .....until the ink's dry on the deal. MB is responding appropriately, IMHO.
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Post by hc17 on May 16, 2020 8:41:02 GMT -5
If it is true that HE is no longer a possibility, it’s just flat out deflating. While I enjoy attending HC hockey games, I’ll be honest it’s hard to get excited sometimes with our current Conference schedule. I’ve loved the exposure to HE and ECAC schools in recent years and the positive results we’ve earned.
While we could allocate that 2M to other coaches and programs, I’m sorry but I really question the value of that. There are a few sports that allow you to define your athletic program and when an opportunity such as this arises to generate excitement and to turn the page, you do everything you can to make it happen. If not, that’s ok. Just another sign that the status quo is ok.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 16, 2020 10:28:46 GMT -5
If it is true that HE is no longer a possibility, it’s just flat out deflating. While I enjoy attending HC hockey games, I’ll be honest it’s hard to get excited sometimes with our current Conference schedule. I’ve loved the exposure to HE and ECAC schools in recent years and the positive results we’ve earned. While we could allocate that 2M to other coaches and programs, I’m sorry but I really question the value of that. There are a few sports that allow you to define your athletic program and when an opportunity such as this arises to generate excitement and to turn the page, you do everything you can to make it happen. If not, that’s ok. Just another sign that the status quo is ok. Its not that there is now $2 million in the kitty for other coaches and programs, because, given the coronavirus hit on HC's finances, there is probably $0 in the kitty. If the men were to become members of HE, then the M/W ice hockey cost to HC would be greater than M/W basketball. Greater than the cost of football. Think about that. M/W ice hockey 2018-2019 total expenses BC $6.7M BU $5.6M HC $2.9M Prov $7.0M HC's women's ice hockey costs, when the number of scollies reaches the cap, will probably add an additional $1 million to the 2018-19 number, to a total of $2+ million for women's ice hockey. The men will probably be about $2 million playing in the AHL. Cost of football at HC in 2018-19 was $5.6M. M/W hoops cost was less. _________________________________________________________________ My understanding, and I am more than willing to be corrected, is that the DCU keeps all/most of the concession sales money, charges a rental fee for the venue, which the renting party can recoup through ticket sales (hopefully). IIRC, the DCU imposes a $2 surcharge on each ticket to help pay off improvement bonds, and a $1 surcharge to pay off the cost of the videoboards. If HC were to charge $10 a ticket for HE ice hockey at the DCU, the DCU would add $3 to that price. If a hypothetical venue rental cost for the DCU was $20,000, HC would need to sell an average of 2,000 tickets per game to cover the rental charge. (With tax and surcharges, the ticket cost would be about $14.) Who believes that HC could sell an average of 2,000 tickets @$14 per game to cover the rental charge? ______________________________________ The DCU Center was planning upgrades, see this Dec 2019 article in the T&G. I suspect those are now on hold. www.telegram.com/news/20191212/project-manager-chosen-for-dcus-upgrade-workFor the fiscal year 2016, the operating revenues of the DCU Center were as follows: OPERATING REVENUES Direct event income......................................................................... $ 1, 722, 897 Food and beverage income. ............................................................. 2, 443, 165 Ancillary income.................... .............................................................. 362, 283 Advertising income.................. ...................................................... 403, 928 Ticket service fees.......................... ............ ..................................... 941, 006 Net service fees.................................. ......... ................................... 295, 973 Other income.......................................... .... .................................. 143, 204 TOTAL OPERATING REVENUES.............. .................................. 6, 312,456 worcester.ma/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Oct26-DCUCenterAuditFY16.pdf |
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Post by longsuffering on May 16, 2020 10:38:24 GMT -5
The point that hockey is the easiest spectator sport to define a college athletic program is unimpeachable because the D-1 ranks are so compact.
However, Holy Cross has an asset of an on campus arena that is fully paid for, connected to state of the art training facilities, in walking distance to all dorms with free parking for fans, right off the interstate, etc. and Atlantic Hockey embraces that asset, so why not embrace Atlantic Hockey while we are in it and get to the NCAAs sooner than in HE?
While a winning team can define a college, so can a losing one so let's move up from a position of strength after winning the AHA.
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Post by hc17 on May 16, 2020 10:45:26 GMT -5
Thanks for the information. Without question, a move to a major athletic conference goes against the grain. Perhaps it’s nothing but a pipe dream. While the costs are significant, I’d imagine HC taking in additional revenues as well. I wasn’t able to find any commercial terms to the TV deal with NESN or Digital deal with CBS, but I have to imagine all members receive a slice of the revenue. While we may be way off from going to games in person, I’d bet you’d have increases attendance from those events as well. That’s not to say the cost completely offset, I understand that.
Perhaps I’m reading the tea leaves with my purple tinted glasses too much, but it really did appear that we were focusing in on HE membership. Everything from the women’s teams participation to hosting the NCAA regionals and everything in between.
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Post by longsuffering on May 16, 2020 11:35:00 GMT -5
Thanks for the information. Without question, a move to a major athletic conference goes against the grain. Perhaps it’s nothing but a pipe dream. While the costs are significant, I’d imagine HC taking in additional revenues as well. I wasn’t able to find any commercial terms to the TV deal with NESN or Digital deal with CBS, but I have to imagine all members receive a slice of the revenue. While we may be way off from going to games in person, I’d bet you’d have increases attendance from those events as well. That’s not to say the cost completely offset, I understand that. Perhaps I’m reading the tea leaves with my purple tinted glasses too much, but it really did appear that we were focusing in on HE membership. Everything from the women’s teams participation to hosting the NCAA regionals and everything in between. NESN is interesting. The Red Sox fill a huge amount of programming during baseball season but the Bruins don't fill as much during the winter so New England college M&W BB and Hockey get some great prime time slots and generally a late night replay also. Men's HE probably gets revenue but it's harder to imagine a UNH vs Dartmouth Women's BB game or even a BU vs BC Women's Hockey game in front of a few hundred fans generating broadcast revenue for the participants or their leagues. I can't remember revenue from NESN being included in any of PP's posts about Athletic finances, or for that matter any revenue from Stadium unless it goes to the league and just reduces membership fees. If NESN presented a college like HC a proposal to be televised and receive exposure only as compensation, and there were no competing proposals, why turn it down? I never noticed that the local Charter Spectrum Worcester TV station pays high schools or colleges to televise their games but I do remember a poster saying HC purchases the airtime on WEEI radio for radio broadcasts and then sells ads, if I understood correctly. |
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 16, 2020 11:36:05 GMT -5
Its worth looking at UConn's application for membership in the Big 12 to get a sense of what a conference looks for when considering whether to admit a new member. I'm sure that HE wouldn't go into anywhere near this level of detail, but I think all major conferences are prudent as to whether a prospective member brings a net benefit to the conference, and whether it has the financial wherewithal to be competitive in the conference. uconn.edu/public-notification/big-12-records/#Particularly this due diligence document, devredesign.uconn.edu/content/uploads/2019/04/Response-to-Big-12-Due-Diligence.pdfand especially Parts 1 and 2 of the due diligence document, where UConn is more forthcoming with respect to certain items, e.g., coaches salaries, than it is in the NCAA annual revenues and expense report. |
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Post by longsuffering on May 16, 2020 11:52:33 GMT -5
Its worth looking at UConn's application for membership in the Big 12 to get a sense of what a conference looks for when considering whether to admit a new member. I'm sure that HE wouldn't go into anywhere near this level of detail, but I think all major conferences are prudent as to whether a prospective member brings a net benefit to the conference, and whether it has the financial wherewithal to be competitive in the conference. uconn.edu/public-notification/big-12-records/#Particularly this due diligence document, devredesign.uconn.edu/content/uploads/2019/04/Response-to-Big-12-Due-Diligence.pdfand especially Parts 1 and 2 of the due diligence document, where UConn is more forthcoming with respect to certain items, e.g., coaches salaries, than it is in the NCAA annual revenues and expense report. I'm going to have to chip away at this PP but my first reaction is UConn has 31,000+ total students, ten times the number HC has yet we play them head to head in multiple sports. All praise to HC. |
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Post by HC92 on May 16, 2020 11:55:21 GMT -5
While it might be “easier” to get to the NCAAs from AHA, it appears near impossible for us at this moment in time. We haven’t even had a brief sniff of a chance to get to the NCAAs under Berard. Here are our regular season records in the AHA over the last decade. .
Pearl:
‘10-‘11: 14-8-5
‘11-‘12: 15-8-4
‘12-‘13: 15-9-3
‘13-‘14: 11-13-3
55-38-15
Berard:
‘14-‘15: 12-11-5
‘15-‘16: 16-7-5
‘16-‘17: 11-10-7
‘17-‘18: 12-10-6
‘18-‘19: 10-14-4
‘19-’20: 9-16-3-2
70-68-29
I’m starting to think we just need a really special coach to have any success in athletics at HC. We had it with Willard and Pearl. We have it with Chesney. Other than those three, our athletic performance since I graduated has been generally abysmal with a couple of individual seasons that are the exception to the rule. Doesn’t seem like the school has a plan to change this dynamic so we may just have to accept that this is the way it’s going to be. Hope we can find that amazing coach every once in a while and otherwise accept that we’re going to be mediocre to poor in everything. .
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Post by hc17 on May 16, 2020 12:24:14 GMT -5
Recent history suggests your assumptions are correct. While the Luth didn’t directly impact HC hockey as much as some would have liked, it will continue to pay dividends for HC athletics as a whole. No doubt it has aided Chesney in his ability to recruit and ideally, we’ll feel the same way with Nelson in a year or two. We went from walking into our facilities with our tail between our legs to a legitimate facility that student-athletes may enjoy spending time and working in. A few years from now, we’ll truly be able measure the impact of the Luth as well as the quality of the coaches.
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Post by longsuffering on May 16, 2020 13:17:33 GMT -5
While it might be “easier” to get to the NCAAs from AHA, it appears near impossible for us at this moment in time. We haven’t even had a brief sniff of a chance to get to the NCAAs under Berard. Here are our regular season records in the AHA over the last decade. . Pearl: ‘10-‘11: 14-8-5 ‘11-‘12: 15-8-4 ‘12-‘13: 15-9-3 ‘13-‘14: 11-13-3 55-38-15 Berard: ‘14-‘15: 12-11-5 ‘15-‘16: 16-7-5 ‘16-‘17: 11-10-7 ‘17-‘18: 12-10-6 ‘18-‘19: 10-14-4 ‘19-’20: 9-16-3-2 70-68-29 I’m starting to think we just need a really special coach to have any success in athletics at HC. We had it with Willard and Pearl. We have it with Chesney. Other than those three, our athletic performance since I graduated has been generally abysmal with a couple of individual seasons that are the exception to the rule. Doesn’t seem like the school has a plan to change this dynamic so we may just have to accept that this is the way it’s going to be. Hope we can find that amazing coach every once in a while and otherwise accept that we’re going to be mediocre to poor in everything. . Bernard did better with Pearl's recruits than his own. ADMB has indicated he evaluates coaches in relation to the resources they have to work with. Does Berard have less resources to work with than Pearl did? I was under the impression scholarships have increased in hockey under Berard? No sense in ADMB publicly criticizing the coach and no sense in eating a contract in this economy, but when the contract is up I'd like HC to try to find one of those special coaches. IF HC WH begins to win in HE, I could see offering the Men's head coach position to one of the two top coaches of HC Women's Hockey rather than lose one of them. That would be a bonafide accomplishment to have a winning record in Women's Hockey East at Holy Cross and we would be in danger of losing coaches. |
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Post by matunuck on May 16, 2020 19:04:55 GMT -5
My strong sense is that the primary sticking point with regard to us joining HE is the fact we will not commit the financial resources required to be competitive in the league. HE would be fine with us but not under the current budget structure, and we have no desire to spend more at this point. Some of the other schools mentioned as HE expansion candidates have really shaky finances compared to HC so HE may stay put for a while.
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Post by hc17 on May 17, 2020 7:38:03 GMT -5
Whether or not HC is willing to make the investment to be competitive within HE is a fair question. What’s incredibly frustrating is that we’re not really competitive in AHA and when we do show signs of life, we blow it in the playoffs. Perhaps the path to competitiveness is easier in AHA, but frankly I fear more of the same.
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Post by timholycross on May 17, 2020 8:17:14 GMT -5
My strong sense is that the primary sticking point with regard to us joining HE is the fact we will not commit the financial resources required to be competitive in the league. HE would be fine with us but not under the current budget structure, and we have no desire to spend more at this point. Some of the other schools mentioned as HE expansion candidates have really shaky finances compared to HC so HE may stay put for a while. If a proposed acceptance isn't contingent on using the DCU Center; or at least contingent on using it a only few times a year; the resource gap might be something that's feasible to rectify. If not, then, I'm of the mindset it's not worth the frustration of having one hand tied behind our collective backs. |
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Post by sader1970 on May 17, 2020 9:06:39 GMT -5
I don't want us to be like Fordham in basketball . . . . . the doormat of a better league. Of course, being the doormat of a lesser league is even worse.  Not sure what Pine and now Blossom see in Berard. The annual end of season swan song should tell us something. Only rationale, and I have no basis to know one way or the other, is that Blossom has stated publicly he holds his coaches to the "resources allocated" standard. Presumably, hockey is competitively under-resourced and this is more Phreek's territory. |
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Post by hc17 on May 17, 2020 9:54:38 GMT -5
I agree no one wants to be a doormat in any league. HE presents a unique opportunity to HC. If we’re not willing to invest and increase funding, I’m not sure what we’re doing here. I know others have brought up the sizable investment a move to HE would cost relative to other HC sports, but maybe Hockey should become the priority over football and basketball. If that leads us to engaging students, alums, and locals more so than the other sports, I’m all in. Perhaps, a competitive hockey program in the premier conference, increases the fandom into HC athletics. Many HC alums are looking for something...a positive, something to be proud about when it comes to the Athletics program that isn’t decades old. It’s hard to turn out alums for game against, with all due respect, Mercyhurst, Niagara and others. BC, Northeastern, BU are a different story despite being underdogs in virtually every matchup.
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Post by nhteamer on May 26, 2020 8:19:02 GMT -5
I prefer improvement of hockey facilities over improved practice facilities for baritones.
Just me, I guess.
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