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Mack POY
Mar 6, 2020 13:18:28 GMT -5
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Post by HC13 on Mar 6, 2020 13:18:28 GMT -5
Mack gets the nod
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Mack POY
Mar 6, 2020 13:30:51 GMT -5
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Post by HC13 on Mar 6, 2020 13:30:51 GMT -5
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Post by purplehaze on Mar 6, 2020 13:46:12 GMT -5
I am sure it was a very close vote but the difference had to be the teams' respective records (16-2 vs. 11-7) and considering preseason expectations (HC a close runnerup and Bucknell 3rd I think) - imo, our team with 4 sr starters and a very weak ooc schedule underachieved a bit.
speaking of our ooc games, Illinois was terrible again with only 2 Big Ten wins and BC might have been the best ooc win among all PL teams - they had a great year (11-7 ACC) and their coach was COY. I think we caught them on an off-night for sure
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Post by Ignutz on Mar 6, 2020 13:54:07 GMT -5
I don’t follow women’s hoops very closely, but call the cops - LM was robbed! I just reviewed the stats of LM and Mack, and it isn’t even close. Put two columns on a sheet of paper, compare side-by-side, and I don’t care what the team records were, this is a blatant injustice.
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Post by bison137 on Mar 6, 2020 13:56:06 GMT -5
I am sure it was a very close vote but the difference had to be the teams' respective records (16-2 vs. 11-7) and considering preseason expectations (HC a close runnerup and Bucknell 3rd I think) - imo, our team with 4 sr starters and a very weak ooc schedule underachieved a bit. That's definitely what is was. Ever since the league was formed, many of the coaches in most sports cast their votes for the top player on one of the top teams, especially if that team overachieved. Rarely does the POY come from a team that is not top two or three, and most of the time the award has gone to a player on a first place team. Note that the league has no definition of POY and it is up to each coach to determine his/her own criteria - whether it should go to the player with the best stats or to a player on a top team. |
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Post by bison137 on Mar 6, 2020 13:57:36 GMT -5
I don’t follow women’s hoops very closely, but call the cops - LM was robbed! I just reviewed the stats of LM and Mack, and it isn’t even close. Put two columns on a sheet of paper, compare side-by-side, and I don’t care what the team records were, this is a blatant injustice. Not an injustice at all, since the coaches were voting for POY, not for the player with the best stats. Manis unquestionably would have won for best stats. But the POY almost always, in every PL sport, goes to a player from a top team, especially if the top team runs away with the league. |
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Post by purplehaze on Mar 6, 2020 14:13:26 GMT -5
Hey guys, you have to admit that our team with Manis' ability and a strong supporting cast did not threaten the top of the league all season, and we should have ! blame the supporting cast or the coaching but there is no reason we should have had 7 league losses.
I think bison commented on another thread that the comparative 'PL Stats' were very close.
And i would admit that Bucknell challenged themselves ooc with more games against higher rated conferences, such as: UVA (ACC), Quinnipiac (maac), Temple and Cinci (American), Geo Mason (A-10) and Drexel (CAA) - and wins over the last 3 schools there.
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Post by hchoops on Mar 6, 2020 14:34:55 GMT -5
Hey guys, you have to admit that our team with Manis' ability and a strong supporting cast did not threaten the top of the league all season, and we should have ! blame the supporting cast or the coaching but there is no reason we should have had 7 league losses. I think bison commented on another thread that the comparative 'PL Stats' were very close. ; Did you look at those stats ? Bison May have said they were very close. They were not. To me, the best player on the best team does not equal the player of the year. But I do not have a vote. If HC was a bad team and Manis’ stats were inflated because of that, it could be justified. Where teams were placed pre season should be irrelevant. The only relevant fact should be these two players’ performances. Manis’ performances for an 11-7 team were superior to Mack’s for a first place team. imo the coaches who voted for Mack were wrong |
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Post by purplehaze on Mar 6, 2020 14:55:11 GMT -5
I like this discussion - yes, it can go either way
one other point on the 'team's performance' metric - we were swept by all three of the top teams in the league, Bucknell, Colgate and BU - dare I say that has never happened before
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Post by bison137 on Mar 6, 2020 16:07:43 GMT -5
Hey guys, you have to admit that our team with Manis' ability and a strong supporting cast did not threaten the top of the league all season, and we should have ! blame the supporting cast or the coaching but there is no reason we should have had 7 league losses. I think bison commented on another thread that the comparative 'PL Stats' were very close. ; Did you look at those stats ? Bison May have said they were very close. They were not. To me, the best player on the best team does not equal the player of the year. But I do not have a vote. If HC was a bad team and Manis’ stats were inflated because of that, it could be justified. Where teams were placed pre season should be irrelevant. The only relevant fact should be these two players’ performances. Manis’ performances for an 11-7 team were superior to Mack’s for a first place team. imo the coaches who voted for Mack were wrong 1. Bison did NOT say the stats were very close. 2. Having said that, the stats in PL games were closer. One reason they were more lopsided in OOC games is that HC chose to play a cream-puff schedule while Bucknell challenged themselves. 3. The award you want to give Manis is one that doesn't exist in the PL. The vote for POY this year followed the same criteria as it has every year. It has almost always gone to the top player on the team that won. Further, the last time it went to a player not on one of the top two teams was 16 years ago. 4. It is obvious you feel the coaches should ignore the traditional criteria for this award. It might be a good idea for you to petition the PL to create a new award for whoever has the top stats. 5. It should be noted that Bucknell finished five games in front of HC, despite having graduated three All-PL players and despite losing a very good PG to injury at the start of the league season. It's not like HC finished a close second or a close third. They were about as close to 8th place as they were to 1st. Again, there is no question that Manis had better stats - but that is not what this award has ever been based on. |
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Post by HC92 on Mar 6, 2020 16:23:33 GMT -5
Stats in 18 PL Games (Manis vs Mack):
Points 329 vs. 283
Rebounds 203 vs. 133
Assists 41 vs. 47
Steals: 29 vs. 10
Blocks 16 vs. 12
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Post by bison137 on Mar 6, 2020 16:30:41 GMT -5
As an example of how this award almost always goes to a player from a top team, last year these were the stats of two All-PL players:
Madison Hovren (Army) 19.1 ppg, 13.1 rpg (both better than what Manis did this year)
Cecily Carl (American) 15.8 ppg, 5.8 rpg
POY award went to Carl, whose AU team tied for 1st.
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Post by bison137 on Mar 6, 2020 16:35:24 GMT -5
Stats in 18 PL Games (Manis vs Mack): Points 329 vs. 283 Rebounds 203 vs. 133 Assists 41 vs. 47 Steals: 29 vs. 10 Blocks 16 vs. 12 Since Bucknell plays at a much slower pace than HC, these counting stats need to be adjusted. One other stat that is not dependent on pace is FG pct. Mack was .511, Manis .436, I am a bit puzzled by this whole thread however. I think most everyone thought Mack was the favorite prior to the official vote. Not because she is the better player but because of the criteria used to determine POY. |
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bkny
Junior
Posts: 39 
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Post by bkny on Mar 6, 2020 16:47:06 GMT -5
Lauren Manis is the Mike Trout of the PL —PLAYER OF THE YEAR!—plain and simple.
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Mack POY
Mar 6, 2020 16:51:28 GMT -5
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Post by HC92 on Mar 6, 2020 16:51:28 GMT -5
Stats in 18 PL Games (Manis vs Mack): Points 329 vs. 283 Rebounds 203 vs. 133 Assists 41 vs. 47 Steals: 29 vs. 10 Blocks 16 vs. 12 Since Bucknell plays at a much slower pace than HC, these counting stats need to be adjusted. What constitutes.a “much slower pace” in your view? We ain’t exactly the Tark’s UNLV teams. |
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Post by hchoops on Mar 6, 2020 17:03:58 GMT -5
Did you look at those stats ? Bison May have said they were very close. They were not. To me, the best player on the best team does not equal the player of the year. But I do not have a vote. If HC was a bad team and Manis’ stats were inflated because of that, it could be justified. Where teams were placed pre season should be irrelevant. The only relevant fact should be these two players’ performances. Manis’ performances for an 11-7 team were superior to Mack’s for a first place team. imo the coaches who voted for Mack were wrong 1. Bison did NOT say the stats were very close. 2. Having said that, the stats in PL games were closer. One reason they were more lopsided in OOC games is that HC chose to play a cream-puff schedule while Bucknell challenged themselves. 3. The award you want to give Manis is one that doesn't exist in the PL. The vote for POY this year followed the same criteria as it has every year. It has almost always gone to the top player on the team that won. Further, the last time it went to a player not on one of the top two teams was 16 years ago. 4. It is obvious you feel the coaches should ignore the traditional criteria for this award. It might be a good idea for you to petition the PL to create a new award for whoever has the top stats. 5. It should be noted that Bucknell finished five games in front of HC, despite having graduated three All-PL players and despite losing a very good PG to injury at the start of the league season. It's not like HC finished a close second or a close third. They were about as close to 8th place as they were to 1st. Again, there is no question that Manis had better stats - but that is not what this award has ever been based on. According to your logic, the award should be renamed “ The PL award for the best player on the best team”, and not Player if the Year. thus if there are 2: 3,4 or even 5 players on the best team(who is best, the Regular season winner, the PLT winner, no wait the award is given before the PLT. What about a two or three way tie ? .) who are all close as far as contributions are concerned ? Who is best ? |
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 6, 2020 18:02:53 GMT -5
Congratulations to Manis and Labarbera on their selections.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 6, 2020 20:43:06 GMT -5
She who laughs last laughs best. HC has no current plans to quarantine the Monday Night playoff game. Let's support our five seniors and help them win the PLT.
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Mack POY
Mar 6, 2020 23:37:52 GMT -5
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Post by bfoley82 on Mar 6, 2020 23:37:52 GMT -5
She who laughs last laughs best. HC has no current plans to quarantine the Monday Night playoff game. Let's support our five seniors and help them win the PLT. Amherst WBB and Hopkins MBB both quarantined their regionals |
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Mack POY
Mar 7, 2020 2:20:11 GMT -5
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 7, 2020 2:20:11 GMT -5
She who laughs last laughs best. HC has no current plans to quarantine the Monday Night playoff game. Let's support our five seniors and help them win the PLT. Amherst WBB and Hopkins MBB both quarantined their regionals I project HC will err on the side of caution and not allow spectators on Monday night. |
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Post by HC92 on Mar 8, 2020 8:09:21 GMT -5
Amherst WBB and Hopkins MBB both quarantined their regionals I project HC will err on the side of caution and not allow spectators on Monday night. I hope that’s not the case. Tell people with compromised immune systems or who feel sick in any way to stay home. Put out Purell dispensers and plenty of soap in the bathroom. Support the women. They deserve it. If we don’t allow fans tomorrow, we shouldn’t allow fans during flu season either. That would be tough for college hoops in the northeast. |
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Post by HC13 on Mar 8, 2020 9:58:37 GMT -5
This would suggest there will be no quarantine:
/photo/1
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 8, 2020 10:06:11 GMT -5
Must see hoops! Looking forward to seeing those parts of the video stream, that stadium lets through.  |
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Mack POY
Mar 8, 2020 10:36:31 GMT -5
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 8, 2020 10:36:31 GMT -5
Must see hoops! Looking forward to seeing those parts of the video stream, that stadium lets through. Video options still blank for this game at goholycross.com. I guess I can withdraw my projection of a closed gym because 1) plenty of games on TV yesterday with fans and 2) yesterday the state of MA. Public Health officials said the risk is low and they are not currently recommending cancellation of mass gatherings such as the Boston Marathon. |
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Mar 8, 2020 15:23:48 GMT -5
If anyone is still thinking about POY award, I agree that Manis deserved it. FYI, Paul Hornung won the Heisman in 1956 when ND was 2-8.
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