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Post by rgs318 on Apr 28, 2021 8:55:40 GMT -5
Do you really mean "all rights but no responsibilities?" I can't see any country lasting very long with such a philosophy.
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Post by mm67 on Apr 28, 2021 9:30:20 GMT -5
TBT for 100 + years courts, including the Sup. Ct. have ruled that public health trumps individual rights & freedoms. Going back to the days of "Typhoid Mary" some Americans have been resistant to public health measures such as quarantine & isolation. The courts have consistently ruled that it is within the purview of the government to mandate & enforce these public health measures. Thus, today public schools mandate vaccinations for students. As one poster pointed out the fact that the current vaccines are authorized under an EUA may preclude the government from mandating vaccination requirements). However, it is my understanding that this has not been tested in court. Certainly, I would hope that privately owned businesses would mandate masks for employees and customers in their privately owned businesses. (Right of Private Property). Unfortunately, this has not always been the case. In fact I recently read that there is a private school in Florida(naturally) which has forbidden its teachers & staff and students from being vaccinated. In the minds of some, personal rights extend one way (No masks /vaccinations) and not the other (vaccination/wearing masks if one decides to do so). Strange!
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Post by HC92 on Apr 28, 2021 10:56:01 GMT -5
Those young adults may not die often, but they have the capability to keep the virus circulating, mutating, becoming craftier and eventually developing a vaccine resistant strain that runs through older Americans like a warm knife through butter. Or maybe these young Einsteins will follow social distancing and mask wearing for the rest of their lives and never harm anyone. 🤔 Yeah but like so many other Americans, they believe that their freedoms preclude them from doing anything and everything that might cause the slightest inconvenience to themselves (same reason people refuse to wear a mask). They love being citizens, but have absolutely no concept of the idea that citizenship comes with responsibilities to their fellow citizens. The flip-side of this is keeping people and businesses locked down and/or masked if there is even the slightest risk of transmission. This is another issue where most sane people should be able to meet In the middle. I’m happy to where a mask in a crowded indoor setting even though I’m fully vaccinated just in case I might somehow be carrying the virus. But, I’m still required to wear a mask while throwing BP or shagging fly balls at Little league practice outside in CT.
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Post by hchoops on Apr 28, 2021 12:13:29 GMT -5
Ct governor did not take yesterday’s CDC recommendation that masks are not necessary at uncrowded outdoor events ? NY and Mass did.
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Post by purplenurple on Apr 28, 2021 12:15:11 GMT -5
Ct governor did not take yesterday’s CDC recommendation that masks are not necessary at uncrowded outdoor events ? NY and Mass did. Goes into affect on Friday here in Mass I believe. I agree with sane people meeting in the middle. Unfortunately not always the policymakers.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Apr 28, 2021 13:08:38 GMT -5
What about the insanity of having athletes in outdoor non-contact sports being forced to wear masks? There's a recent story of a female runner in an Oregon HS collapsing at the finish line, perhaps due to lack of oxygen from wearing the mask.
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Post by purplehaze on Apr 28, 2021 17:03:24 GMT -5
I think we've come a long way in fighting this virus and we're at the stage where everyone can make their own decision on where and how to wear a mask, if at all. Today, Fauci is taking heat for insisting that little kids where masks outdoors which some parents might agree with and others won't (given the science of miniscule risk for children) - it's time for the overly cautious scientists to step aside and give Americans the liberty to make their own choices
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Post by hcpride on Apr 28, 2021 18:48:59 GMT -5
/\ That NBC interview with Savannah Guthrie got very awkward very fast. He didn’t anticipate a very obvious question - even NBC couldn’t let it slide. It’s just not a good look- given the science- for Fauci to claim little kids should mask up out in the fresh air. He may need to pass on interviews till he gets better talking points. (Starting with the idea that little kids do NOT need to mask up out in the parks, etc.)
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Post by clmetsfan on Apr 28, 2021 18:57:21 GMT -5
Do you really mean "all rights but no responsibilities?" I can't see any country lasting very long with such a philosophy. I do really mean it. And sadly, I agree.
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Post by clmetsfan on Apr 28, 2021 19:05:17 GMT -5
Yeah but like so many other Americans, they believe that their freedoms preclude them from doing anything and everything that might cause the slightest inconvenience to themselves (same reason people refuse to wear a mask). They love being citizens, but have absolutely no concept of the idea that citizenship comes with responsibilities to their fellow citizens. The flip-side of this is keeping people and businesses locked down and/or masked if there is even the slightest risk of transmission. This is another issue where most sane people should be able to meet In the middle. I’m happy to where a mask in a crowded indoor setting even though I’m fully vaccinated just in case I might somehow be carrying the virus. But, I’m still required to wear a mask while throwing BP or shagging fly balls at Little league practice outside in CT. Yeah sure, but I'm not talking about people who are annoyed that the mask rules have maybe lasted a little longer than necessary (that said, given how many spikes we've had, I'm sure you'd agree that better to keep it in place a little too long than not long enough). I'm really talking about the people who think that their only concerns should be for their own well being. The people who think that they shouldn't have to wear a mask in any setting -- and turn it into a political statement about some indefinable "freedom" they have -- simply because they're not afraid of getting COVID, with no concern at all for the possibility of spreading it to someone else.
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Post by hceconhist on Apr 28, 2021 19:41:33 GMT -5
92, I wonder if many Republicans were so influenced by that interview that they now decide against the vaccine ( “ stick that vaccine...”) whereas they may have gotten it before the interview. Maybe Dr. Fauci could have been more diplomatic in his response, but he is a doctor, not a diplomat. He is supposed to be a doctor but he answers loaded questions that take him out of the realm of pure doctor when he answers them in the political framework in which they’re asked. He should reject any question that starts with “Well, Republicans . . .” or “Well, Democrats . . .” Science isn’t about Republicans and Democrats. He should answer questions scientifically and specifically reject questions that ask him to play politics as the one from CNN clearly did. To answer your first question, I do believe that, if all of our leaders on both sides made an effort to do what I’m suggesting Fauci do, we’d be a hell of a lot better off as a country and more people would definitely be vaccinated. The constant politicization and polarization on every issue is killing our country in so many ways. If you don’t think videos like the one above have an effect on how people think about issues and push them to extreme positions on both sides, you have the good fortune of not spending much time on social media. I would recommend continuing to avoid social media because it’s a very scary place these days. I think that your point, and good anecdote, underscore the difference between public health expertise and its application to public policy and politics. The latter two are inherently multi-disciplinary, requiring a whole host of knowledge in other fields. Clearly, Dr. Fauci's expertise is centered on the science of the disease itself. When we debate a tax or spending bill, no one says "only listen to those with PhDs in economics."
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Post by hchoops on Apr 28, 2021 19:44:26 GMT -5
Half a million Americans do not die directly from a tax or spending Bill.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Apr 28, 2021 19:47:50 GMT -5
The CDC guidance, as I understand it, is that vaccinated individuals can do away with masks when outdoors, except when they're in the midst of very large crowds, Unvaccinated individuals should continue to wear masks when outdoors. Little kids aren't vaccinated, as no vaccine is yet approved for them. So little kids could be infected and contagious, and infect other unvaccinated individuals. So Dr. Fauci was correct in his guidance. As for childhood transmission see: services.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/Mortality is very very low. Hospitalizations are not.
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Post by hceconhist on Apr 28, 2021 19:53:29 GMT -5
Half a million Americans do not die directly from a tax or spending Bill. Right, but that does not take away from any of main points.
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Post by hchoops on Apr 28, 2021 19:59:06 GMT -5
Half a million Americans do not die directly from a tax or spending Bill. Right, but that does not take away from any of main points. Beg to differ Epidemiologists are not the same as economists ,and their recommendations should not have similar weight. Doctors in a pandemic deal directly with life and death. Economists do not.
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 28, 2021 21:16:16 GMT -5
How are we going to honor Dr. Fauci? Is there a select committee working quietly and diplomatically on this? Of course Holy Cross wants to honor Dr. Fauci's service to America, but benefit the college, too while doing so. A delicate operation. Do you think planning something has begun?
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Post by hchoops on Apr 28, 2021 22:17:22 GMT -5
Yes
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Post by hcpride on Apr 29, 2021 4:03:51 GMT -5
The CDC guidance, as I understand it, is that vaccinated individuals can do away with masks when outdoors, except when they're in the midst of very large crowds, Unvaccinated individuals should continue to wear masks when outdoors. Little kids aren't vaccinated, as no vaccine is yet approved for them. So little kids could be infected and contagious, and infect other unvaccinated individuals. So Dr. Fauci was correct in his guidance. As for childhood transmission see: services.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/Mortality is very very low. Hospitalizations are not. Little kids outdoors in the fresh air are significant spreaders of Covid? Beyond that, when Fauci claimed the interviewer’s young daughter should mask up for the lonely and outdoor walk home from the bus with mommy, the interview got very awkward. If you eyeball the CDC’s latest chart - which was shown on the screen during the interview - you’ll see why it got a bit tense: www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/pdfs/choosingSaferActivities.pdfSee the upper left corner:
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Post by higheredguy on Apr 29, 2021 4:07:44 GMT -5
The CDC guidance, as I understand it, is that vaccinated individuals can do away with masks when outdoors, except when they're in the midst of very large crowds, Unvaccinated individuals should continue to wear masks when outdoors. Little kids aren't vaccinated, as no vaccine is yet approved for them. So little kids could be infected and contagious, and infect other unvaccinated individuals. So Dr. Fauci was correct in his guidance. As for childhood transmission see: services.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/Mortality is very very low. Hospitalizations are not. This is the correct take and something that people seem to be missing out on. Fauci has been consistent with scientific guidance.
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Post by hcpride on Apr 29, 2021 4:27:42 GMT -5
The CDC guidance, as I understand it, is that vaccinated individuals can do away with masks when outdoors, except when they're in the midst of very large crowds, Unvaccinated individuals should continue to wear masks when outdoors. Little kids aren't vaccinated, as no vaccine is yet approved for them. So little kids could be infected and contagious, and infect other unvaccinated individuals. So Dr. Fauci was correct in his guidance. As for childhood transmission see: services.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/Mortality is very very low. Hospitalizations are not. This is the correct take and something that people seem to be missing out on. Fauci has been consistent with scientific guidance. Some people are unaware of CDC’s latest chart. It was on the screen in Fauci’s ill-advised interview. According to it, unvaccinated little kids DO NOT need to mask up outdoors for a lonely walk home from the bus with mommy (plus it would make absolutely no scientific sense — if that sort of old fashioned standard is at all applicable in regards to the Covid response ): www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/pdfs/choosingSaferActivities.pdf
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Apr 29, 2021 7:28:00 GMT -5
Fauci didn't think through the Talmudic parsing of the question. Did Guthrie say she was vaccinated or not? If Guthrie was not vaccinated, then she should be masked, and so should her kid. If Guthrie was vaccinated, then her little kid can take off his/her mask once he/she gets off the school bus, and they are not encountering other individuals in their walk home. If, however, this walk is on a crowded sidewalk in Manhattan, then the chart indicates the kid should be masked (the small gathering example). Children who are asymptomatic carry as much a viral load as do adolescents and adults. And a very slight majority of all infected children are asymptomatic. www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-81934-w
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Post by hcpride on Apr 29, 2021 8:57:16 GMT -5
Fauci didn't think through the Talmudic parsing of the question. Did Guthrie say she was vaccinated or not? If Guthrie was not vaccinated, then she should be masked, and so should her kid.If Guthrie was vaccinated, then her little kid can take off his/her mask once he/she gets off the school bus, and they are not encountering other individuals in their walk home. If, however, this walk is on a crowded sidewalk in Manhattan, then the chart indicates the kid should be masked (the small gathering example). Children who are asymptomatic carry as much a viral load as do adolescents and adults. And a very slight majority of all infected children are asymptomatic. www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-81934-wNo. You are over complicating it. Not sure why. The new CDC chart clearly says (and this should shock nobody who follows the science): “ Unvaccinated people without masks may walk, run, roll, or bike outdoors with members of their immediate family.” www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/pdfs/choosingSaferActivities.pdf(You seem to think every unvaccinated person, including Ms. Guthrie, should always wear a mask outside ...]
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Post by alum on Apr 29, 2021 10:39:31 GMT -5
Yes, Dr. Fauci asked people to do slightly more than the CDC says is necessary. It is not the end of the world.
Everyone has different tolerances for risk and they exist in a different situation. I didn't see this Fauci interview about the kid getting off the bus. The bus going down my street stops at each student's house and the kid can get off, take off the mask, and run in for cookies. In the small city in which I work, the kids get off the bus at a group bus stop and walk down a crowded sidewalk with their masked parent and often younger siblings, often to a food insecure home. They are more likely to live in smaller multigenerational housing. If that kid's mom or dad or pediatrician wants her to keep a mask on, what is the big deal?
I haven't worn a mask ever while walking my dog down the middle of the street in my no sidewalk subrural neighborhood. If I stop to talk to someone, I stay more than 6 feet away. When I walk from my office to my car, on the other hand, I wear a mask. If I was to walk in a park where everyone else was wearing a mask, I would likely put one on because it is just damn polite.
Kids don't need to wear masks to play outdoors and 92, having been vaccinated, certainly doesn't need one to throw BP. Nevertheless, I know that if a kid comes to practice and says his mom insists he wears a mask, 92 isn't going to embarass the kid or allow the other players to make fun of him. That's what decent people do.
Every family is different. I recall coaching U10 soccer. I said something along the lines of "We can't make any stupid mistakes if we want to win." A kid told his mother I swore. We figured out that it was the word "stupid" which they didn't use at their house. While I thought that this was silly, I realized that it cost me nothing not to ever use that word in a coaching context again. I feel the same way about masks. If the wait staff in the restaurant is wearing them, I will wear one until I sit down and will wear it while I order. No harm to me.
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Post by timholycross on Apr 29, 2021 11:02:34 GMT -5
One would think that given how many vaccinations can be performed in a week (since we now have a track record of 100 days or so) that there is a day out in the future where every American has had more than ample chance to avail himself/herself/themselves of the vaccine. At that point, unless there is some new negative development (e.g. the vaccine is proven not to work, a variant is completely resistant, that sort of thing), the situation has to change. It's no longer the vaccinated majority's problem. Don't see any other way except to wallow in this indefinitely.
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Post by hcpride on Apr 29, 2021 11:08:04 GMT -5
One would think that given how many vaccinations can be performed in a week (since we now have a track record of 100 days or so) that there is a day out in the future where every American has had more than ample chance to avail himself/herself/themselves of the vaccine. At that point, unless there is some new negative development (e.g. the vaccine is proven not to work, a variant is completely resistant, that sort of thing), the situation has to change. It's no longer the vaccinated majority's problem. Don't see any other way except to wallow in this indefinitely. And we’ll simply ignore the panicked (faux or actual) ‘err on the safe siders’ and return to normal. Actually, that is already happening (ignoring the ‘err on the safe siders’ and returning to normal) in many parts of the country.
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