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Post by alum on Apr 29, 2021 11:13:01 GMT -5
One would think that given how many vaccinations can be performed in a week (since we now have a track record of 100 days or so) that there is a day out in the future where every American has had more than ample chance to avail himself/herself/themselves of the vaccine. At that point, unless there is some new negative development (e.g. the vaccine is proven not to work, a variant is completely resistant, that sort of thing), the situation has to change. It's no longer the vaccinated majority's problem. Don't see any other way except to wallow in this indefinitely.
I don't think that we need to wallow in this indefintely and I don't have a problem with a consequence for people who won't get vaccinated. (I haven't read about any condition which excludes the person from getting the vaccine.) I think we ought to wait until daily infections get down below 10,000. I hesitate to put a percentage on how many we need to have vaccinated because we may never reach it. I am more inclined to say let's see if we can get below 10,000 daily infections and stay there.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Apr 29, 2021 14:48:53 GMT -5
The CDC guidelines for unvaccinated individuals allow such individuals to:
1. [Unmasked] Walk, run, roll, or bike outdoors with members of your household 2. [Unmasked] Attend a small, outdoor gathering with fully vaccinated family and friends 3. [Masked] Attend a small, outdoor gathering with fully vaccinated and unvaccinated people
1. Makes perfect sense if the only people you meet in your outdoor activities are members of your household, because when a child is indoors with his/her family, he/she is not going around masked. 2. Also makes perfect sense because there is a minutely low risk of a vaccinated person spreading the virus to an unvaccinated child. 3. Applies to situations where a child encounters small clusters of individuals, some of whom are not vaccinated, and who are not part of his/her household.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Apr 29, 2021 14:51:35 GMT -5
The CDC guidelines for unvaccinated individuals allow such individuals to: 1. [Unmasked] Walk, run, roll, or bike outdoors with members of your household Imagine ever wearing a mask while doing this. LOL.
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Post by hcpride on Apr 29, 2021 15:11:05 GMT -5
The CDC guidelines for unvaccinated individuals allow such individuals to: 1. [Unmasked] Walk, run, roll, or bike outdoors with members of your household Imagine ever wearing a mask while doing this. LOL. Reason #75 folks have been snickering over the CDC ‘expert’ guidance. What possibly clued them in (after a full year) regarding outdoors and Covid transmission? At this rate I’d say in 55 years they’ll be announcing the earth is round. Can’t imagine why folks ridicule this bumbling organization. Do any scientists work there? Still baffled Fauci didn’t apparently know it’s safe for little unmasked kids to walk outside in the fresh air with mommy . Poor Savannah Guthrie at NBC was so stunned he whiffed on the softball she asked the same question again. And he was still confused.
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 29, 2021 15:21:00 GMT -5
I am a pro-Fauci, pro-mask guy. But I don't enjoy wearing one and even though I have been fully vaccinated for a while, I am still ordering groceries online and popping my trunk to have them put in instead of going in to stores with a mask on. I really feel for people who have to wear them much of the day. Let's get everyone vaccinated and move on.
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Post by Chu Chu on Apr 30, 2021 8:38:30 GMT -5
Imagine ever wearing a mask while doing this. LOL. Reason #75 folks have been snickering over the CDC ‘expert’ guidance. What possibly clued them in (after a full year) regarding outdoors and Covid transmission? At this rate I’d say in 55 years they’ll be announcing the earth is round. Can’t imagine why folks ridicule this bumbling organization. Do any scientists work there? Still baffled Fauci didn’t apparently know it’s safe for little unmasked kids to walk outside in the fresh air with mommy . Poor Savannah Guthrie at NBC was so stunned he whiffed on the softball she asked the same question again. And he was still confused. I think that crafting a simple and compelling public health policy message that considers a wide ranging and diverse audience is what has underlined the CDC's efforts. The more complexity and special situations that are discussed, the less understanding, by in, compliance and public pressure. Dr Fauci has always noted that it is safe to exercise outdoors while away from others outside the household. The complexity comes from crowds and proximity to others, such as on sidewalks and trails, which can be unanticipated and sudden. As we all know so well, Dr Fauci is both a consummate scientist, and, a classically educated scholar of the liberal arts. He has all of these things to consider. He does not make the CDC policy, but he has been an important and tireless communicator.
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Post by hcpride on Apr 30, 2021 9:47:09 GMT -5
The CDC guidelines for unvaccinated individuals allow such individuals to: 1. [Unmasked] Walk, run, roll, or bike outdoors with members of your household 2. [Unmasked] Attend a small, outdoor gathering with fully vaccinated family and friends 3. [Masked] Attend a small, outdoor gathering with fully vaccinated and unvaccinated people 1. Makes perfect sense if the only people you meet in your outdoor activities are members of your household, because when a child is indoors with his/her family, he/she is not going around masked. 2. Also makes perfect sense because there is a minutely low risk of a vaccinated person spreading the virus to an unvaccinated child. 3. Applies to situations where a child encounters small clusters of individuals, some of whom are not vaccinated, and who are not part of his/her household. The general scientific consensus continues to be that if you are OUTDOORS walking/jogging/running/rolling/golfing/biking/swimming/skydiving/paddle boarding mask-free and unvaccinated and cross paths with folks you're NOT magically going to catch Covid from them. One assumes (hopes) the CDC has known this for quite a while. (Of course one could construct wacky what-ifs for all these outdoor scenarios ...including solo skydiving...) The CDC did publicly admit (in that same announcement a few days ago ) the vaccinated can safely ditch their masks to dine at an outdoor restaurant with friends from multiple households. Not making up this brilliant scientific insight. One assumes (hopes) this too is not information they have suddenly discovered.
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Post by rickii on Apr 30, 2021 10:18:00 GMT -5
The CDC guidelines for unvaccinated individuals allow such individuals to: 1. [Unmasked] Walk, run, roll, or bike outdoors with members of your household 2. [Unmasked] Attend a small, outdoor gathering with fully vaccinated family and friends 3. [Masked] Attend a small, outdoor gathering with fully vaccinated and unvaccinated people 1. Makes perfect sense if the only people you meet in your outdoor activities are members of your household, because when a child is indoors with his/her family, he/she is not going around masked. 2. Also makes perfect sense because there is a minutely low risk of a vaccinated person spreading the virus to an unvaccinated child. 3. Applies to situations where a child encounters small clusters of individuals, some of whom are not vaccinated, and who are not part of his/her household. I think it is understood that if you are OUTDOORS walking/jogging/running/rolling/golfing/biking/swimming/skydiving/paddle boarding maskless and cross paths with folks you're not magically going to catch Covid from them. One assumes (hopes) scientists have known this for quite a while. (Of course one could construct wacky what-ifs for all these outdoor scenarios ...including solo skydiving...) The CDC did publicly admit (in that same announcement) the vaccinated can safely ditch their masks to dine at an outdoor restaurant with friends from multiple households. One assumes this is not information they have suddenly discovered. At some point they'll publicly admit all sorts of safe indoor and outdoor activities for the vaccinated. Of course, states know the science related to the at risk and the vaccinated too which is why so many have ignored the CDC. Meanwhile, Honduras - from which thousands have and continue to make the God awful trek thru Mexico to the U.S./Texas border - have near ZERO vaccination drugs as Covid and new strains overwhelm the country. Are they and those thousands from El Salvador, Nicaragua, Guatemala ALL being tested daily for Covid and/or vaccinated BEFORE entering the U.S. ? Given the daily/weekly/monthly numbers claimed by either political persuasion ( take your pick ), that is obviously impossible. What say the CDC/Fauci on that front ?
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 30, 2021 13:14:21 GMT -5
I think it is understood that if you are OUTDOORS walking/jogging/running/rolling/golfing/biking/swimming/skydiving/paddle boarding maskless and cross paths with folks you're not magically going to catch Covid from them. One assumes (hopes) scientists have known this for quite a while. (Of course one could construct wacky what-ifs for all these outdoor scenarios ...including solo skydiving...) The CDC did publicly admit (in that same announcement) the vaccinated can safely ditch their masks to dine at an outdoor restaurant with friends from multiple households. One assumes this is not information they have suddenly discovered. At some point they'll publicly admit all sorts of safe indoor and outdoor activities for the vaccinated. Of course, states know the science related to the at risk and the vaccinated too which is why so many have ignored the CDC. Meanwhile, Honduras - from which thousands have and continue to make the God awful trek thru Mexico to the U.S./Texas border - have near ZERO vaccination drugs as Covid and new strains overwhelm the country. Are they and those thousands from El Salvador, Nicaragua, Guatemala ALL being tested daily for Covid and/or vaccinated BEFORE entering the U.S. ? Given the daily/weekly/monthly numbers claimed by either political persuasion ( take your pick ), that is obviously impossible. What say the CDC/Fauci on that front ? Dr. Fauci delves into immigration and border policies on Mondays and Wednesdays.
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Post by mm67 on Apr 30, 2021 13:23:56 GMT -5
MEN & WOMEN FOR OTHERS!
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Apr 30, 2021 14:36:30 GMT -5
I think it is understood that if you are OUTDOORS walking/jogging/running/rolling/golfing/biking/swimming/skydiving/paddle boarding maskless and cross paths with folks you're not magically going to catch Covid from them. One assumes (hopes) scientists have known this for quite a while. (Of course one could construct wacky what-ifs for all these outdoor scenarios ...including solo skydiving...) The CDC did publicly admit (in that same announcement) the vaccinated can safely ditch their masks to dine at an outdoor restaurant with friends from multiple households. One assumes this is not information they have suddenly discovered. At some point they'll publicly admit all sorts of safe indoor and outdoor activities for the vaccinated. Of course, states know the science related to the at risk and the vaccinated too which is why so many have ignored the CDC. Meanwhile, Honduras - from which thousands have and continue to make the God awful trek thru Mexico to the U.S./Texas border - have near ZERO vaccination drugs as Covid and new strains overwhelm the country. Are they and those thousands from El Salvador, Nicaragua, Guatemala ALL being tested daily for Covid and/or vaccinated BEFORE entering the U.S. ? Given the daily/weekly/monthly numbers claimed by either political persuasion ( take your pick ), that is obviously impossible. What say the CDC/Fauci on that front ? I think the CDC should take does from what would otherwise be allocated to those states who are currently substantially underperforming when it comes to vaccinations, and send those doses to Central America. The underperformers. Alabama has administered only 63% of the doses it has received Mississippi 65% Georgia 67% Arkansas 68% West Virginia 71% South Carolina 72% Oklahoma 72% North Carolina 72% Alaska 72% I think this is flawless logic. Why should laggards receive even more when they're a long, long way from using what they already have?
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Post by timholycross on Apr 30, 2021 15:06:15 GMT -5
Meanwhile, Honduras - from which thousands have and continue to make the God awful trek thru Mexico to the U.S./Texas border - have near ZERO vaccination drugs as Covid and new strains overwhelm the country. Are they and those thousands from El Salvador, Nicaragua, Guatemala ALL being tested daily for Covid and/or vaccinated BEFORE entering the U.S. ? Given the daily/weekly/monthly numbers claimed by either political persuasion ( take your pick ), that is obviously impossible. What say the CDC/Fauci on that front ? I think the CDC should take does from what would otherwise be allocated to those states who are currently substantially underperforming when it comes to vaccinations, and send those doses to Central America. The underperformers. Alabama has administered only 63% of the doses it has received Mississippi 65% Georgia 67% Arkansas 68% West Virginia 71% South Carolina 72% Oklahoma 72% North Carolina 72% Alaska 72% I think this is flawless logic. Why should laggards receive even more when they're a long, long way from using what they already have? Makes sense. Send approx 30% of the vaccine shipments that were set to go to these states and send them to the border. Vaccinate those who are coming in as a condition of their acceptance into the country .
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Post by rgs318 on Apr 30, 2021 15:09:11 GMT -5
Do you mean vaccinate those who are coming in illegally, or those who are registered and waiting for admission under our immigration regulations?
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Post by hcpride on Apr 30, 2021 15:40:54 GMT -5
I think the CDC should take does from what would otherwise be allocated to those states who are currently substantially underperforming when it comes to vaccinations, and send those doses to Central America. The underperformers. Alabama has administered only 63% of the doses it has received Mississippi 65% Georgia 67% Arkansas 68% West Virginia 71% South Carolina 72% Oklahoma 72% North Carolina 72% Alaska 72% I think this is flawless logic. Why should laggards receive even more when they're a long, long way from using what they already have? Makes sense. Send approx 30% of the vaccine shipments that were set to go to these states and send them to the border. Vaccinate those who are coming in as a condition of their acceptance into the country . Perhaps they’ll be more US citizens eagerly vaccinating if leadership starts acting like the vaccines work. Stumbling around outdoors in a double mask while fully vaccinated is not sending the message the vaccines work. Ditto the wacky guidelines for the vaccinated regarding masks just put out by the brain trust at CDC.
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Post by rgs318 on Apr 30, 2021 15:43:06 GMT -5
Thanks for the input. I support immigration that takes place in accordance with U.S. regulations. I would like to see it expanded. "Our" in my statement refers to American citizens and I could care less if someone else wants to label that "othering" (whatever that now means). Since the current administration seems to have little or no desire to "administer" the border (and to some "border" no longer has any meaning), I don't expect the current flood of migrants to lessen any time soon. I welcome those who officially apply, wait for processing, and are accepted. Those who say US regulations mean nothing and come illegally I hope are never welcomed. They, and the politicians who support them, make migrants who respect U.S. regulations look like fools. Just one man's opinion.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Apr 30, 2021 17:06:28 GMT -5
I wonder about the people who are so adamant against immigration to the US, if they remember and consider the history of why their ancestors left their homeland. Was it due to food shortage, religious persecution, opportunities for their children? The lack of compassion and the mentality of “I have mine, too bad for you” is appalling. Even when immigrants follow all of the rules, and complete paperwork, the process is extremely long and takes many years. Immigrants who enter on Sponsored Work visas temporarily have an easier process to remain in the US as long as they remain with their sponsoring company, or find employment with a new company who will sponsor them. My daughter is an immigration lawyer, in practice with clients from over 40 countries around the globe. The immigration courts are severely under staffed, and trying to schedule a hearing and subsequent appeals takes years to process. In some cases, after a given hearing, if there is not enough time in that particular session for complete review, it make take up to a year, for the next hearing to occur. Migrating through Ellis Island was by far a simpler process than what many of the current people who desire to live in the US are now facing. The current regulatory process for immigration is extremely complicated, with requirement updates seemingly occurring monthly. Unfortunately, the situation is so dire in Honduras, the people are desperate for food. In order to stop the mass migration, substantial aid is needed with food and medical supplies. Here are a couple of articles regarding the current situation in Honduras. www.brookings.edu/blog/future-development/2021/04/01/climate-violence-and-honduran-migration-to-the-united-states/www.nytimes.com/2021/04/06/world/americas/migration-honduras-central-america.htmlPS....My daughter has a degree in Mechanical Engineering, from a top 3 engineering program in the US. She originally planned on practicing Intellectual Property and Patent Law, with internships and employment with several Silicon Valley companies whose products that many people globally use. But through her volunteer efforts she saw the desperate needs of many immigrants, who like her grandmother came to the US looking for a better life.
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Post by rgs318 on Apr 30, 2021 17:37:08 GMT -5
My original question was not answered, or even addressed. To whom was this "extra" vaccine to go? Vaccinating all legal (documented?) immigrants is certainly worthwhile. Those who are defying our laws probably also a good idea (since they will now be admitted anyway in many cases), but not a high priority if there are still unvaccinated citizens who have not had the opportunity to receive their shot(s).
I appreciate the efforts of those who assist people seeking refuge from the nightmare our immigration system has become over the last several decades.
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Post by hcpride on Apr 30, 2021 17:42:09 GMT -5
It is possible to favor legal immigration but not to favor illegal immigration. I’ve noticed a tendency to blur the vital distinction.
The new descriptor ‘’migrant’ erases the distinction.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Apr 30, 2021 18:23:53 GMT -5
We are a nation of laws...at least we were until LEO were largely handcuffed (NYC), the border opened up, and violent crime increased in cities with no repercussions.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Apr 30, 2021 18:36:30 GMT -5
What is your understanding of legal vs illegal immigration?
My daughter ‘s clients are seeking to obtain residency through the currently defined process and guidelines of the USCIS. The process is extremely long that requires a number of reviews through the court system. Keeping in mind, they have the resources to retain representation by her and colleagues.
A person coming from another country no longer can enter by showing up on a ship through an Ellis Island portal, have a few documents stamped, and can reside in the city or town of their choice and that’s it. Even with extended visas, the process is extremely protracted. The large majority of Americans have absolutely no idea how the “legal” immigration process is transacted. Someone who is not sponsored with adequate financial resources to pay for all of the filings required by the immigration court system, has an extremely difficult time being able obtain the required documents of residency for themselves and family.
I challenge everyone who does not understand how difficult this process has become (it is not taught properly, if at all in a civics class) to speak with an immigration attorney regarding the current environment. Maybe ask through your parish, if there is a member who practices immigration law, and volunteer on an ongoing basis in their office. Your perspective will change, if you have any compassion and empathy. This is not only an issue in the US, but globally for people seeking to find food and shelter in a better environment, just like your great, great grandfather and grandmother.
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Post by thecrossisback on Apr 30, 2021 19:01:33 GMT -5
What is your understanding of legal vs illegal immigration? My daughter ‘s clients are seeking to obtain residency through the currently defined process and guidelines of the USCIS. The process is extremely long that requires a number of reviews through the court system. Keeping in mind, they have the resources to retain representation by her and colleagues. A person coming from another country no longer can enter by showing up on a ship through an Ellis Island portal, have a few documents stamped, and can reside in the city or town of their choice and that’s it. Even with extended visas, the process is extremely protracted. The large majority of Americans have absolutely no idea how the “legal” immigration process is transacted. Someone who is not sponsored with adequate financial resources to pay for all of the filings required by the immigration court system, has an extremely difficult time being able obtain the required documents of residency for themselves and family. I challenge everyone who does not understand how difficult this process has become (it is not taught properly, if at all in a civics class) to speak with an immigration attorney regarding the current environment. Maybe ask through your parish, if there is a member who practices immigration law, and volunteer on an ongoing basis in their office. Your perspective will change, if you have any compassion and empathy. This is not only an issue in the US, but globally for people seeking to find food and shelter in a better environment, just like your great, great grandfather and grandmother. A local immigration lawyer talked to our college class last semester and explained how difficult the process of becoming a citizen was. Especially under different Presidential administrations. If you forget to fill out just one box on an application, they can deny your application and make you go through the entire process again. Also the lawyer was telling us how busy they have been. The politicians need to get together and find a better process.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Apr 30, 2021 19:51:35 GMT -5
Not even citizenship, just legal permanent residency is an extremely protracted process.
If only the majority of Americans had a professional legal view, instead of listening to the babbling of less informed people, who never sat in a law class, and probably flunked high school civics, they would understand the current process is intricate and complex. Today’s path to legal residency is night and day from what their grand parents and great grandparents had to endure.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2021 20:54:25 GMT -5
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 30, 2021 21:37:27 GMT -5
Two Presidential Candidates that I never voted for but nonetheless had lines in a speech with logic that resonated with me were Jesse Jackson who said in 1988: "We came over on different ships but we're all in the same boat now." and Donald Trump who said "If you don't have borders you don't have a country."
I wish the U.S. could manage and control the borders to prevent illegal immigration and Congress would do it's job and compromise on a legal immigration policy and then implement it.
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Post by hcpride on May 1, 2021 3:33:17 GMT -5
Not even citizenship, just legal permanent residency is an extremely protracted process. If only the majority of Americans had a professional legal view, instead of listening to the babbling of less informed people, who never sat in a law class, and probably flunked high school civics, they would understand the current process is intricate and complex. Today’s path to legal residency is night and day from what their grand parents and great grandparents had to endure. Folks who support legal immigration and do not support illegal immigration do not represent that our nation’s laws (regarding immigration and otherwise) are perfect. Nor do they represent that today’s immigration laws resemble the immigration laws of the 1880’s. At the same time the idea that a nation ought to control its borders and decide who enters and who does not is a reasonable and prudent notion. And that would apply whether very many or very few people want to enter.
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