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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Mar 30, 2020 19:04:58 GMT -5
I still ready 1-2 newspapers everyday, and enjoy the tangible aspect of them very much. Also probably 85% of HC's fanbase given it's age probably does as well.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Mar 30, 2020 19:23:54 GMT -5
Who's going to defend me pro bono here if I get sued? Thanks, Jim. I have much respect for all Crusader athletes. So you are telling me you consider our program today D-1? Yes b/c it is Division I. No less D-I than the basketball teams at HC, NJIT, Longwood & Bryant.Even though it is subdivision and we play Georgetown and the like? Are we eligible for the top 25 poll? Yes -- both Appalachian State and North Dakota State have received AP Top 25 votes and FCS teams are eligible.Are our best players eligible to be D-1 All Americans? Is this how we want to refer to our program? I wouldn't refer to it as "not Division 1" or "we used to Divison I"Do NCAA coaches consider HC a D-1 football school? The point of that paragraph was to demonstrate that we don't scheduled like we did in 1969. -- Point taken. The difference in 1969 was that D-I football was still just one division and HC would've been eligible to go to a bowl game. The subdivision occurred in 1978 with HC moving down in 1983. So he's not incorrect on his general claim that HC played football in the top division then and we no longer do now. They most appropriate way for Dan to put it would to have said "Holy Cross was still playing major college football then". That's the appropriate term IMO for what that was without denigrating what the product is today. Anyway probably splitting hairs. Glad to see our 1969 football team and their struggle recognized in a major paper.
I am stunned that anyone would quarrel with that distinction. Respectfully, shaughnessy '75
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Post by joe on Mar 31, 2020 8:29:33 GMT -5
I’ll take a crack at this too:
1. So you are telling me you consider our program today D-1?[
Considering D1 football is comprised of two cohorts (FBS and FCS), and HC is a (now very good) FCS school, yes. If the NCAA had determined the FCS should not be considered D1, they would be categorized as D2.
2. Even though it is subdivision and we play Georgetown and the like?
Georgetown plays small scale D1 football.
3. Are we eligible for the top 25 poll?
Yes.
4. Are our best players eligible to be D-1 All Americans?
Yes, the FCS publishes an All-American team, as does the FBS. And we have had and can have again players considered for the Heisman.
Is this how we want to refer to our program?
Yes. This is how we’ve always referred to our program. Now, more than ever, with schollies, a league championship, and having to win recruiting battles against the FBS, we have more than earned that right.
5. Do NCAA coaches consider HC a D-1 football school?
Yes of course they do, although out of touch sportswriters from Boston may not. Ask the coach from Army who we beat a few years ago that question. How about the coach from UConn who, but for a blow call in the 4th, narrowly beat us at home. Better question might be: Do NFL scouts consider HC to be D1? Answer again is yes. Ask the coaches from KC and the Titans.
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Post by hc87 on Mar 31, 2020 12:58:03 GMT -5
So....has anyone checked if he changed it in his story?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 31, 2020 14:25:50 GMT -5
Here's my exchange with Mr Shaughnessy
My email:
We were classmates at Holy Cross but I don't believe we ever met. I spent all four years in Wheeler Dorm and I guess our paths never crossed.
In any case I'm writing about your article on the 1969 football team, a major background story at HC when we got to campus. I remember celebrating in Wheeler when HC beat Harvard with a big touchdown by Mark Sheridan in the opening game our freshman year, breaking that multi-year losing streak.
Of course you know that Holy Cross is still Division-1 so I don't know why you made the gratuitous statement in your fine column. We don't play at the same level as we did when we were at HC, but we're not D-2 or D-3 by any means. Bob Chesney is, in my opinion, an extraordinary coach--he'll lead the Crusaders to great things while we still have him as coach.
One more thing--why is Ted Wells "infamous"? I thought he was just "famous"
I live in Louisville, KY so I don't subscribe to the Globe but do see your writing from time to time. You are certainly a gifted writer.
Holy Cross 1975, Parent 2009
His response:
Shaughnessy, Daniel
Mar 30, 2020, 8:48 PM (18 hours ago)
Nice to hear from you, Dan Congrat on your child grad. Much harder to get into HC now than when we were young Best, dan
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Post by hc87 on Mar 31, 2020 14:45:08 GMT -5
Just an odd duck....4 years in Wheeler? Wow. My friend Marybeth Reilly McGreen is writing (or finished) an article for the HC Mag on the experience of living in Wheeler.
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Post by timholycross on Mar 31, 2020 16:23:28 GMT -5
The irony of the argument you're having with Dan to me is that in 1969 there were something like 10-12 bowl games and anything short of an undefeated season that year by HC would have had them watching at home.
And, when the 1978 team broke out to a 6-0 start; it was no slam dunk that 10-1 or 11-0 would have garnered a bid either, although by that time there were 15 bowls.
It was a higher level than now, but in many ways it was it was in name only. It didn't take BC, for example, that much of a turn in direction around that time to pull away from us.
Without getting into the ins and outs of the Patriot League....I wasn't that disappointed in 1982 when HC football became 1AA. I thought it was a good niche for a school of HCs size,
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Post by hchoops on Mar 31, 2020 17:10:44 GMT -5
Here's my exchange with Mr Shaughnessy My email: We were classmates at Holy Cross but I don't believe we ever met. I spent all four years in Wheeler Dorm and I guess our paths never crossed. In any case I'm writing about your article on the 1969 football team, a major background story at HC when we got to campus. I remember celebrating in Wheeler when HC beat Harvard with a big touchdown by Mark Sheridan in the opening game our freshman year, breaking that multi-year losing streak. Of course you know that Holy Cross is still Division-1 so I don't know why you made the gratuitous statement in your fine column. We don't play at the same level as we did when we were at HC, but we're not D-2 or D-3 by any means. Bob Chesney is, in my opinion, an extraordinary coach--he'll lead the Crusaders to great things while we still have him as coach. One more thing--why is Ted Wells "infamous"? I thought he was just "famous" I wondered the same. An HC classmate suggested that it probably refers to Wells report on Deflategate which was not received favorably in the Hub.
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Post by hc87 on Mar 31, 2020 19:36:44 GMT -5
The irony of the argument you're having with Dan to me is that in 1969 there were something like 10-12 bowl games and anything short of an undefeated season that year by HC would have had them watching at home. And, when the 1978 team broke out to a 6-0 start; it was no slam dunk that 10-1 or 11-0 would have garnered a bid either, although by that time there were 15 bowls. It was a higher level than now, but in many ways it was it was in name only. It didn't take BC, for example, that much of a turn in direction around that time to pull away from us. Without getting into the ins and outs of the Patriot League.. ..I wasn't that disappointed in 1982 when HC football became 1AA. I thought it was a good niche for a school of HCs size, Yeah... a scholarship 1-AA/FCS was the perfect fit for HC, unfortunately going non-scholarship blew that all up and we are only now recovering from that. I think Shaugnessey and others like him are still somewhat under the impression that we really aren't playing D1 scholarship football due to our years of playing non-scholarship football and playing schools like Georgetown, Lafayette, Bucknell etc and not UMass, UConn, BC annually etc. Hopefully Chesney and co. will change this mindset moving forward.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Mar 31, 2020 20:36:18 GMT -5
Probably not worth getting up in arms over and no chance he takes the time to edit just to appease CROSSPORTS. I think hes trying to make a point to the casual fan.
The statement "HC was FBS back then" wouldn't make sense because there was no subdivision then so he used the term "Division I" instead.
IMO the appropriate term wouldve been "major college football". Replace "Division I" with that and I have no qualms.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 31, 2020 23:23:55 GMT -5
About a month or so ago Dan had a trivia question that he answered later in the column. The question was which four D-1 college basketball programs have been eligible for every NCAA basketball tournament but have never been selected to play in one? He named the four schools and one of them was St. Francis. So I emailed him and asked which St. Francis, Brooklyn or Pennsylvania? He emailed back "I have no idea. Joe Sullivan gave me that question."
I just chuckled. It was the appropriate blithe answer to a nit picking question. Dan could be both entertaining and mildly annoying when he wrote for The Crusader and he's kept it up for 45 years. One of my favorite Shaughnessy lines is when he describes the specially lighted for TV owner's box seats the relatively short Robert and Jonathan Kraft sit in for home games as their "high chairs." And I love the Krafts. I imagine they even get a chuckle out of it like they wouldn't if it was written by some young sportswriter.
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Post by hchoops on Apr 1, 2020 7:24:46 GMT -5
It is St.Francis, Brooklyn which almost broke the streak a few years ago when they reached their tourney championship final, but lost a close game. I believe Army is also one of those four
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Apr 1, 2020 7:46:54 GMT -5
It is St.Francis, Brooklyn which almost broke the streak a few years ago when they reached their tourney championship final, but lost a close game. I believe Army is also one of those four Army, St. Francis, William & Mary and The Citadel if Im not mistaken. A few schools that were on this list until relatively recently included Northwestern, Kent State, Harvard and Cornell. I guess Brown made an NCAA at some point?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Apr 1, 2020 8:35:39 GMT -5
It is St.Francis, Brooklyn which almost broke the streak a few years ago when they reached their tourney championship final, but lost a close game. I believe Army is also one of those four Army, St. Francis, William & Mary and The Citadel if Im not mistaken. A few schools that were on this list until relatively recently included Northwestern, Kent State, Harvard and Cornell. I guess Brown made an NCAA at some point? 1985-86. Lost to Syracuse 101-52 in the first round.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Apr 1, 2020 9:07:10 GMT -5
Dan is a gifted writer, and I have no problem with his frequent challenges to Boston (and other) sacred cows, but he sometimes defaults to gratuitous negativity and sarcasm. He can't help himself. I've also heard him on the radio (98.5) and he's an interesting guy. I give him a lot of credit for taking positions that bring him rancor from many sides. He knows HC is D1; the point, made by others, is that we're a lower level and regional D1 school. The comment about Ted Wells was some red meat for the many Boston sports fans who think (without reading the report) that Wells screwed the Pats. I'm new to Crossports so I'm sure the book Fraternity has been discussed, but my respect for what the black students went through at that time is very high (I was at HC in the early 70's).
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Post by joe on Apr 1, 2020 9:34:10 GMT -5
He’s being stubborn. He should correct the error and move on, no matter how it may bruise the ego or how trivial it might seem. Period.
It’s a nice article which is apropos for the time. However, but for a few remarks from the former players, it’s is just an almost verbatim rehash of the content of many other articles that have appeared in HC publications and other outlets over the last 50+ years.
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Post by lou on Apr 1, 2020 10:32:59 GMT -5
Tough crowd. I've seen him a few times at HC, most recently when he was on the Purple Reign panel. Smart, funny, interesting and he loves HC sports. Is there any sports columnist in Boston you guys like?
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Post by joe on Apr 1, 2020 10:53:28 GMT -5
Tough crowd. I've seen him a few times at HC, most recently when he was on the Purple Reign panel. Smart, funny, interesting and he loves HC sports. Is there any sports columnist in Boston you guys like? That’s what makes this so disappointing Lou.
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Post by hc87 on Apr 1, 2020 13:02:32 GMT -5
Slightly off-topic, but I've always felt Bill Simmons was/is such an untapped resource for HC athletics.
Not entirely sure what he could provide other than fundraise/donate $$$ etc. but to many undah 45 or so, he is the most well known HC (sports) alumnus out there.
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Post by Ray on Apr 1, 2020 13:32:39 GMT -5
Slightly off-topic, but I've always felt Bill Simmons was/is such an untapped resource for HC athletics. Not entirely sure what he could provide other than fundraise/donate $$$ etc. but to many undah 45 or so, he is the most well known HC (sports) alumnus out there. But what exactly would you have him/HC do? I mean, HC obviously knows he exists... he's been back to speak on campus, etc. "Untapped" suggests that HC isn't sufficiently working to cultivate that relationship, which I think assumes facts not in evidence.
He's done very well for himself in his career, of course, but it wasn't until this most recent Ringer sale (not yet closed, as far as I know) that he really reached the "capital gift" level of wealth. Beyond that, you don't really know anything (nor do I) about what he has/has not donated.
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Post by thecrossisback on Apr 1, 2020 13:35:14 GMT -5
Slightly off-topic, but I've always felt Bill Simmons was/is such an untapped resource for HC athletics. Not entirely sure what he could provide other than fundraise/donate $$$ etc. but to many undah 45 or so, he is the most well known HC (sports) alumnus out there. www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-ringer/the-bill-simmons-podcast/e/ep-74-joe-house-and-greg-cosell-43082361First 12 minutes are about Holy Cross He makes a good point at 4:40 Also writes tweets about Holy Cross sometimes. But it doesn't seem he is to involved outside of this 2016 March Madness run.
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Post by Ray on Apr 1, 2020 14:19:50 GMT -5
Slightly off-topic, but I've always felt Bill Simmons was/is such an untapped resource for HC athletics. Not entirely sure what he could provide other than fundraise/donate $$$ etc. but to many undah 45 or so, he is the most well known HC (sports) alumnus out there. www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-ringer/the-bill-simmons-podcast/e/ep-74-joe-house-and-greg-cosell-43082361First 12 minutes are about Holy Cross He makes a good point at 4:40 Also writes tweets about Holy Cross sometimes. But it doesn't seem he is to involved
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Post by hc87 on Apr 1, 2020 14:50:33 GMT -5
No, I hear ya....just seems like he could be a biggah "megaphone" such as it is for HC sports...seemed to really drop off for him after the Willard years.
Hopefully he jumps on the Chesney/football train moving forward.
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Post by Ray on Apr 1, 2020 15:20:23 GMT -5
No, I hear ya....just seems like he could be a biggah "megaphone" such as it is for HC sports...seemed to really drop off for him after the Willard years. Hopefully he jumps on the Chesney/football train moving forward. But what on earth did we have for him to "megaphone" between Willard years and Chesney, save for four basketball games in March 2016?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Apr 1, 2020 15:37:47 GMT -5
Do we have many examples of other sports writers, columnists, commentators promoting or talking about their colleges a lot? I'm not aware of where many of them went to college, other than knowing that Syracuse is over-represented.
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