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Albany
Sept 21, 2016 1:03:16 GMT -5
Post by beerseach on Sept 21, 2016 1:03:16 GMT -5
Ill add another comment without even doing the research, but I am guessing last season as the depth chart got younger, the team's record got better...
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Albany
Sept 21, 2016 6:24:27 GMT -5
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 21, 2016 6:24:27 GMT -5
The solution to a porous defense is not to be found in critiquing the blocking ability of a RB on an offense that averages nearly 500 yards.
HC had the advantage in time of possession in the UNH and Albany games (but not in the Morgan State game). No point in emulating Woody Hayes if the defense gives up a TD on drives that average x (small number) of plays.
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Albany
Sept 21, 2016 7:31:17 GMT -5
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Post by joe on Sept 21, 2016 7:31:17 GMT -5
Be curious to know the comparative defensive and offensive snap counts for HC vs that of our opponents. Opponent time of possession can wear a defense down for certain, but I've always felt another important number is total snap count. It may be a mirage but it just seems like HC works twice as hard on both O and D to achieve the results that other teams get with less "effort." Certainly a lot of this has to do with the big plays we allow.
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Albany
Sept 21, 2016 8:33:35 GMT -5
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Post by HC92 on Sept 21, 2016 8:33:35 GMT -5
Be curious to know the comparative defensive and offensive snap counts for HC vs that of our opponents. Opponent time of possession can wear a defense down for certain, but I've always felt another important number is total snap count. It may be a mirage but it just seems like HC works twice as hard on both O and D to achieve the results that other teams get with less "effort." Certainly a lot of this has to do with the big plays we allow. We have run 263 offensive plays to 205 for our opponents. The per game breakdown is as follows (HC offensive plays is the first number): Albany: 93 vs 55 UNH: 92 vs 70 MSU: 78 vs 80
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Albany
Sept 21, 2016 8:43:04 GMT -5
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Post by HC92 on Sept 21, 2016 8:43:04 GMT -5
In the last two games, we have averaged 5.2 yards per play while our opponents have averaged 7.6.
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Albany
Sept 21, 2016 10:26:28 GMT -5
Post by timholycross on Sept 21, 2016 10:26:28 GMT -5
Whoever is or isn't better, they have limited scholarships* and have to get something out of all healthy guys (injuries you can't control for the most part).
*I think it's ironic that the Ivies have upgraded football, still have pretty big squads, but only have to worry about 10 ballgames. If you are good at HC's level, you have 11 or 12 games, plus, potentially, playoff games. Borderline abusive, given the highly physical nature of football these days.
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Albany
Sept 21, 2016 12:06:40 GMT -5
Post by beerseach on Sept 21, 2016 12:06:40 GMT -5
Whoever is or isn't better, they have limited scholarships* and have to get something out of all healthy guys (injuries you can't control for the most part). *I think it's ironic that the Ivies have upgraded football, still have pretty big squads, but only have to worry about 10 ballgames. If you are good at HC's level, you have 11 or 12 games, plus, potentially, playoff games. Borderline abusive, given the highly physical nature of football these days. Holy Cross has the depth needed to compete in my opinion. It just seems to me, and I could be wrong, that they are bit too old school in using younger players. It doesn't seem they develop the younger players until it's out of necessity. You eliminate 25-50% of your squad with this philosophy right off the bat. Game 1 depth chart vs Monmouth 2015 3 freshmen/12 sophomores (2 starters on defense) Game 11 depth chart vs Georgetown 2015 10 freshmen (1 starter on defense)/10 sophomores (4 starters-1 offense-3 defense) Game 1 depth chart vs Morgan State 2016 0 freshmen/ 15 sophomores (1 starter on defense)
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Albany
Sept 21, 2016 12:38:45 GMT -5
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 21, 2016 12:38:45 GMT -5
How does this use of freshmen compare with other PL schools?
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Albany
Sept 21, 2016 12:51:51 GMT -5
Post by beerseach on Sept 21, 2016 12:51:51 GMT -5
How does this use of freshmen compare with other PL schools? I'm not sure to be honest and I'm really more concerned with HC than anyone else. The talent is present on the roster in my opinion. It doesn't seem we use the roster to its full potential...
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Albany
Sept 21, 2016 13:20:31 GMT -5
Post by sarasota on Sept 21, 2016 13:20:31 GMT -5
coaching......clean house.....unless you're OK with mediocrity year after year. Can you even imagine where this program would be without Randolph and Pugals? But those are just TWO players over their eight years.
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Albany
Sept 21, 2016 13:53:53 GMT -5
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Post by hcgrad94 on Sept 21, 2016 13:53:53 GMT -5
How does this use of freshmen compare with other PL schools? Using true freshmen, without the benefit of a redshirt year, early in the year is dicey. If they were physically and mentally ready this early for IAA football they probably wouldn't be playing IAA football.
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Albany
Sept 21, 2016 14:22:59 GMT -5
Post by beerseach on Sept 21, 2016 14:22:59 GMT -5
No one is saying we should be using freshmen exclusively but we should be developing them and getting something out of them if they are good. Last year HC started 2-4 and as the depth chart got younger and more talented players started to play the team went 4-1 to finish the year. I think this year's freshmen class was very talented. The RB and the two safeties who played against Albany looked like they could be difference makers right now. What are we afraid of at this point? What could be so "dicey"? Giving up 500+ yards per game and 40 points? Last year, there were 4 sophomores and 1 freshmen on the 1st team All Patriot team and 7 sophomores on the 2nd Team All Patriot team.
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Albany
Sept 21, 2016 14:33:27 GMT -5
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 21, 2016 14:33:27 GMT -5
How does this use of freshmen compare with other PL schools? Using true freshmen, without the benefit of a redshirt year, early in the year is dicey. If they were physically and mentally ready this early for IAA football they probably wouldn't be playing IAA football. Exactly. Villanova is rostering 90 players; 10 are redshirt freshmen.
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Albany
Sept 21, 2016 14:36:12 GMT -5
Post by timholycross on Sept 21, 2016 14:36:12 GMT -5
Last year HC started 2-4 and as the depth chart got younger and more talented players started to play the team went 4-1 to finish the year. Maybe what that means is that it takes a few games for the younger players to get up to speed. They aren't redshirts and unlike some bigger places, they don't get to enroll in January and do weight training, spring ball, etc. They're pretty much left to their own devices until the beginning of August. What would concern me is if the younger kids get to play, seemingly play well; then a year or so later, those kids have disappeared and/or been replaced by even younger kids. Don't think you ever make any progress as a program that way.
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Albany
Sept 21, 2016 16:18:13 GMT -5
Post by gateraider on Sept 21, 2016 16:18:13 GMT -5
For comparison here are the applicable numbers for Colgate from the 2 deep chart. Offense - 2 freshmen with one playing 7 sophomores with 2 starting, 3 others playing Defense - 1 freshman who is playing 9 sophomores with 1 starting and 7 others playing By playing I mean playing in the game other than only on special teams. Some of the sophomores saw playing time as freshmen. Colgate likes to get players in the game.
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Albany
Sept 21, 2016 18:15:19 GMT -5
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 21, 2016 18:15:19 GMT -5
The NCAA rules for FCS make it difficult for a private institution to recruit roster depth.
Using HC as a not so hypothetical example. Forty full scollies and 45 half scollies get you to the NCAA limit.
Someone receiving a half scollie at HC will pay $120,000 over four years at HC. Someone receiving a half-scollie at Towson would pay $50,000 (in-state) or $76,000 (out-of-state). I do not know whether public universities are allowed to charge in-state rates to non-resident athletes. I recall when UMass joined a conference for football, the conference insisted that UMass calculate the financial aid for all football players receiving such aid on a non-resident basis.
A roster of 40 full scollies, ten of whom are freshman, is not much more than a one deep. If all that HC can offer a recuit is a half-scollie, its quite likely that the recruit might gravitate to a school which also offered a half scollie, but where the out of pocket is substantially less.
And that's why Georgetown, relying on only need-based aid, can be somewhat competitive in today's PL.
If HC's need-based aid was similar to what's offered by HYP, it would be to HC's great advantage to drop the merit scollies and recruit and offer based on need.
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Albany
Sept 21, 2016 18:22:40 GMT -5
Post by sarasota on Sept 21, 2016 18:22:40 GMT -5
I can explain Special Relativity to you, but I cannot follow your post. (Not a criticism.)
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Albany
Sept 21, 2016 19:20:36 GMT -5
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Post by HC92 on Sept 21, 2016 19:20:36 GMT -5
HC has 16 frosh and sophs on the two deep (7 on offense and 9 on defense). I would suspect that's in line with our peers at this point in the season, particularly our peers who don't redshirt.
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Albany
Sept 21, 2016 19:54:15 GMT -5
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 21, 2016 19:54:15 GMT -5
I can explain Special Relativity to you, but I cannot follow your post. (Not a criticism.) Let me try the General Relativity version. 1.) NCAA limits FCS schools to 63 full scholarships, and 85 total scholarships (some combination of full and partial). 2.) HC could opt to have only 63 full scholarships on the roster, but that would provide little roster depth. 3.) So HC, and most other FCS schools, fill their rosters with a combination of full scollies and partial scollies. 4.) If you wanted as many full scollies as possible, and also wanted to reach the 85 aid-receiving player limit, you would opt for 40 full scollies and 45 half scollies. If you went 50 full scollies, that would leave you with a max of 26 partial scollies and a total of 76 players on the roster receiving financial aid. 5.) Evenly dividing 40 full scholarships over four years produces an average of 10 full scollie recruits per year, and 11 half scollies per year. 6. However, most freshmen are not starters from day one. As a consequence, the number of full scollies rostered for a game and playing meaningful minutes is about 30. 7. The cost of attendance at HC (and many private schools) is about $60,000. A half-scollie football player would be paying $30,000 to attend Holy Cross, or about $120,000 over four years. 7. The cost of attendance at a public university is much less than the cost at HC. A half scollie football player at a public university might pay $60,000 over four years, perhaps even less than that. 8. A recruit who receives a half-scollie offer from HC might opt for a school that also offered him a half scollie, but where the cost of attendance (the non-scollie half) is substantially less than what it would be if he attended HC. 9. An institution offering need-based aid only is not constrained by a cap on the number of rostered players receiving financial aid. 10. It is possible, if not probable, that schools such as HYP offer so much need-based aid to their football players that if such aid were converted to the equivalent of merit aid (scollies), that HYP might be near, at, or over the 85 players on full scollies limit for FBS. Sincerely, A. Einstein
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Albany
Sept 21, 2016 21:23:05 GMT -5
Post by sarasota on Sept 21, 2016 21:23:05 GMT -5
PP- Thanks for the clear explanation, Al.
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Albany
Sept 21, 2016 22:47:53 GMT -5
Post by gateraider on Sept 21, 2016 22:47:53 GMT -5
Is it possible for a player to receive merit aid for football and need based financial aid? Regarding Gtown the downside of only offering need based financial aid is that it is attractive only for certain strata.
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Albany
Sept 22, 2016 6:05:16 GMT -5
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 22, 2016 6:05:16 GMT -5
Is it possible for a player to receive merit aid for football and need based financial aid? Regarding Gtown the downside of only offering need based financial aid is that it is attractive only for certain strata. No. This was discussed on the old board. If you were to offer a combination of need-based aid, and scollie aid, the total amount counts as scollie aid. If you were to offer a combination of an endowed scholarship, e.g., the Miss Worcester Memorial Scholarship for Deserving HC Students which pays a stipend of x, and scollie aid, the entire amount counts as scollie aid. What apparently would not count as scollie aid: an NROTC scholarship, or a national Kiwanis Club scholarship, as neither is exclusively associated with the college. IIRC, one also cannot circumvent the scollie cap by giving a golf scholarship, and having the golfer play football. The exception may be basketball, where a scollie player in basketball can also play football without breaking the cap limit. With respect to other sports, what the NCAA seeks to avoid is schools exceeding the limit by having soccer award scollies to football players who incidentally play soccer. IMO, such rules were primarily established to minimize abuse by FBS schools, who have the financial resources and the incentive to undertake such abuse. One can readily see how rich boosters would/could start offering scholarship aid to recruited players, thus paying an off-the-books scholarship for a recruited (preferred) walk-on. Georgetown is not as generous as HYP in financial aid, so it cannot compete with HYP when offering need-based aid to recruits. According to Harvard, The average award for 60 percent of the Harvard students is about $50,000. Harvard admits there are several hundred students at Harvard with family incomes of over $200,000 who are receiving aid.
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Albany
Sept 22, 2016 7:54:46 GMT -5
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rgs318 likes this
Post by hcgrad94 on Sept 22, 2016 7:54:46 GMT -5
No one is saying we should be using freshmen exclusively but we should be developing them and getting something out of them if they are good. Last year HC started 2-4 and as the depth chart got younger and more talented players started to play the team went 4-1 to finish the year. I think this year's freshmen class was very talented. The RB and the two safeties who played against Albany looked like they could be difference makers right now. What are we afraid of at this point? What could be so "dicey"? Giving up 500+ yards per game and 40 points? Last year, there were 4 sophomores and 1 freshmen on the 1st team All Patriot team and 7 sophomores on the 2nd Team All Patriot team. I think our coaches have shown over the years they will play freshmen who they think are ready to play. I think of McBeath who was running around at linebacker as a freshman but got hurt because he wasn't physically ready for the rigors of division 1 football. If he had redshirted or been allowed to enroll early he probably would have put on the 15 pounds of muscle that would have help him get through the year. When you put some kids out there at age 18 who are going up against a 22 year old you are asking for injury in some cases. I would think it would be very hard for a freshman offensive lineman to have the strength to play at that position especially early in their freshman year. Again if a kid was strong enough to contribute at that position right away they probably would be playing at the highest level. And by the way the development to which you allude is going on in practice, film and the weight room every day.
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Albany
Sept 22, 2016 7:58:59 GMT -5
Post by rgs318 on Sept 22, 2016 7:58:59 GMT -5
I think I know the answer to this but, to clarify and remain current, if a player is receiving scholarship aid in one sport, does that count if he/she then plays in a second sport? Does it count for both teams equally?
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Albany
Sept 22, 2016 10:09:28 GMT -5
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 22, 2016 10:09:28 GMT -5
I think I know the answer to this but, to clarify and remain current, if a player is receiving scholarship aid in one sport, does that count if he/she then plays in a second sport? Does it count for both teams equally? The only simple answer is for football. Football has a headcount cap, not an equivalency cap. The limits on most other sports are equivalencies. As I recall the discussion from several years ago, a player playing lacrosse on a half scollie could also play soccer, either as a 'walk-on', or with an additional scollie monies. As a walk-on, he/she would not count against equivalency limits. If he/she received scollie money for soccer, he/she would count against the soccer equivalency limits. Bison (or eric if he ever re-appears) may be more authoritative.
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