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Post by hcgrad94 on Oct 28, 2020 7:14:34 GMT -5
It’s an event PP. Evening football in a different environment with walkable places to eat and drink before, during and after. The Park looks to have lots of great places to watch games from, move around and congregate.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 28, 2020 7:20:22 GMT -5
Seeing it as "an event" does give this a whole different perspective. It is one way to (perhaps) create renewed interest among the general population of Worcester in Holy Cross football.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 28, 2020 7:36:32 GMT -5
It’s an event PP. Evening football in a different environment with walkable places to eat and drink before, during and after. The Park looks to have lots of great places to watch games from, move around and congregate. I concede that the game and the opponent is basically immaterial if the purpose is simply a three hour tailgate in the stands. That's what happens now at games in Fitton, except the tailgaters don't bother strolling into the stands. Your proposition of the before, during, and after for a game at Polar Park would be even better -- a six-seven hour tailgate. This is The Grove at Ole Miss come to Worcester,.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 28, 2020 7:41:13 GMT -5
Seeing it as "an event" does give this a whole different perspective. It is one way to (perhaps) create renewed interest among the general population of Worcester in Holy Cross football. I still don't understand how playing football games at a minor league baseball stadium as opposed to Fitton is any more of an "event". Is the "general population" of Worcester not allowed to attend games on the Holy Cross campus or did I miss something? Is a pregame backdrop of a jam-packed Coney Island Hot Dogs going to be that much more of an attractive game day environment than Freshman Field tailgate? Holy Cross football kicks off the grand opening of Polar Park with a game against CCSU or Brown? OK that sounds cool. Count me in. Beyond that, no thanks.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Oct 28, 2020 8:19:58 GMT -5
panem et circenses
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Post by thecrossisback on Oct 28, 2020 8:31:47 GMT -5
I have no problem playing a game at Polar Park. HC should go for it.
Night game under the lights! I want to play it against Harvard!
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Post by hc6774 on Oct 28, 2020 8:34:28 GMT -5
Does PP have a video board?
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 28, 2020 8:51:38 GMT -5
Seeing it as "an event" does give this a whole different perspective. It is one way to (perhaps) create renewed interest among the general population of Worcester in Holy Cross football. I still don't understand how playing football games at a minor league baseball stadium as opposed to Fitton is any more of an "event". Is the "general population" of Worcester not allowed to attend games on the Holy Cross campus or did I miss something? Is a pregame backdrop of a jam-packed Coney Island Hot Dogs going to be that much more of an attractive game day environment than Freshman Field tailgate? Holy Cross football kicks off the grand opening of Polar Park with a game against CCSU or Brown? OK that sounds cool. Count me in. Beyond that, no thanks. 1. It is different - a break from the location where the home games have been played for many decades - and it is outside the fence that separates HC from the rest of Worcester.. 2. The lights give HC a chance to play at a time of day that could generate better attendance. 3. Are Coney Island franks better than those served at Fitton? Heck, yes! 4. The first time will be special...it is up to HC to keep it as an attractive option IF there is to be a repeat.
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Post by Tom on Oct 28, 2020 8:55:41 GMT -5
The big question (and I don't know the answer) is "is a night football game at Polar Park an "event" for the local community "?
A game in and of itself is not an "event" and you get the normal crowd. When they rented lights for that first night game vs UMass some years ago, it was an event and there was a larger than normal crowd. It was new. It was different. It was on a Thursday so it didn't affect other weekend stuff.
You might want to figure in tailgating. People like to tailgate. At Polar, there will be none. You can hang out in local bars and restaurants, but that is a very different feel than tailgating.
For any prayer of making this an event, it almost has to be the first season. Like the night game vs UMass, Polar Park will be new. It will be different. Early in that first year, it will also be a full baseball season old and many locals will have caught a WooSox game there already.
I'm sounding a bit like a broken record, but going back to Crucis' comment. HC at Yankee stadium was new and different. Not something you can repeat year in year out with the same success. A potential game at Polar Park would have to be a one off thing. Any potential gains would be rapidly diminishing with repeat games there
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Post by Crucis#1 on Oct 28, 2020 9:19:57 GMT -5
Conceptually the idea of trying something new to boost local interest in HC football is to be applauded. It would be a great idea except the venue seating design is poor for viewing a football game. There are 15 rows of seats in sections 1-16. In the upper deck, sections 201-207 offer 5 rows, the other sections only have 2 rows. It will be very difficult to see the entire field of play for football, while sitting in the first five rows of Polar Park. For those that remember the Aud, site lines would be comparable to sitting in the little theatre or the upper balcony. Take a look at the seat chart below, and envision a gridiron layout. Where would you like to sit? At best, I do not envision more than 1,000 to 1,500 optimal seats. www.polarparkseating.com/seat-chartPersonally, I am very happy that Worcester is building the Park and additional facilities in that long neglected area. I hope that after the pandemic, it will spur an economic benefit to the businesses in the canal district and refresh the infrastructure and housing in an area that should have been addressed 50 years ago.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Oct 28, 2020 9:27:15 GMT -5
I remember as a child watching the Boston Patriots play the Buffalo Bills (Jack Kemp at QB I think) at Fenway in a snowstorm. The sight lines weren't great, but as others have noted games like this were an event. I think a one-off at Polar would also be an event and a lot of fun.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Oct 28, 2020 9:36:20 GMT -5
Seeing it as "an event" does give this a whole different perspective. It is one way to (perhaps) create renewed interest among the general population of Worcester in Holy Cross football. I still don't understand how playing football games at a minor league baseball stadium as opposed to Fitton is any more of an "event". Is the "general population" of Worcester not allowed to attend games on the Holy Cross campus or did I miss something? Is a pregame backdrop of a jam-packed Coney Island Hot Dogs going to be that much more of an attractive game day environment than Freshman Field tailgate? Holy Cross football kicks off the grand opening of Polar Park with a game against CCSU or Brown? OK that sounds cool. Count me in. Beyond that, no thanks. Agree with your first paragraph ny, but trust me - CCSU or Brown isn't moving the needle at all to get more local asses in the seats for a at Polar Park than at Fitton. As far as regular HC opponents go - UNH and Harvard might, and that's about it.
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Post by hcgrad94 on Oct 28, 2020 10:33:10 GMT -5
I still don't understand how playing football games at a minor league baseball stadium as opposed to Fitton is any more of an "event". Is the "general population" of Worcester not allowed to attend games on the Holy Cross campus or did I miss something? Is a pregame backdrop of a jam-packed Coney Island Hot Dogs going to be that much more of an attractive game day environment than Freshman Field tailgate? Holy Cross football kicks off the grand opening of Polar Park with a game against CCSU or Brown? OK that sounds cool. Count me in. Beyond that, no thanks. Agree with your first paragraph ny, but trust me - CCSU or Brown isn't moving the needle at all to get more local asses in the seats for a at Polar Park than at Fitton. As far as regular HC opponents go - UNH and Harvard might, and that's about it. And lo and behold Harvard game on the schedule for October 2
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Post by hc87 on Oct 28, 2020 13:08:51 GMT -5
We might as well go all in on our minor league status these days. Sorry, but a football game at Polar Park makes zero-sense for the reasons already stated. I could possibly see a HC hockey game...but I have no idea what that would entail cost-wise for the rink/accommodations etc. We need to start winning consistently, be creative with scheduling (good home opponents/night games etc) and people will start to come back to Fitton in #s greatah than the capacity at Polar Park.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 28, 2020 13:21:06 GMT -5
I would like to think that, but I can't see why we don't have at least one night game at home every year.
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 28, 2020 14:26:43 GMT -5
Rob, the answer to your question, as always, is: $$$$$$$$$$$$$
I am sure I am not the only one to have recently this note within the hour (emphasis mine):
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 28, 2020 14:30:16 GMT -5
I still don't understand how playing football games at a minor league baseball stadium as opposed to Fitton is any more of an "event". Is the "general population" of Worcester not allowed to attend games on the Holy Cross campus or did I miss something? Is a pregame backdrop of a jam-packed Coney Island Hot Dogs going to be that much more of an attractive game day environment than Freshman Field tailgate? Holy Cross football kicks off the grand opening of Polar Park with a game against CCSU or Brown? OK that sounds cool. Count me in. Beyond that, no thanks. 1. It is different - a break from the location where the home games have been played for many decades - and it is outside the fence that separates HC from the rest of Worcester.. Still don't understand why the Holy Cross campus is any less accessible as a venue than a downtown stadium. Most Greater Worcester residents have cars. We have plenty of parking. Not difficult to get in and out on game day. It's not like we're Rutgers trying to sell NYC residents on going to games in Piscataway an hour away. Our campus is in the city of Worcester, right off the highway. 2. The lights give HC a chance to play at a time of day that could generate better attendance. Hard to generate better attendance when the stadium is smaller than the number of tickets we would sell for a night game in Fitton with temporary lights.3. Are Coney Island franks better than those served at Fitton? Heck, yes! Maybe we should invest in better hot dogs then?4. The first time will be special...it is up to HC to keep it as an attractive option IF there is to be a repeat. Definitely agree. Try it out once, make it a big event, see how it goes. Keep option open if pundits like me are wrong and the initial game is a rousing success.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 28, 2020 14:37:10 GMT -5
1. It is different - a break from the location where the home games have been played for many decades - and it is outside the fence that separates HC from the rest of Worcester.. Still don't understand why the Holy Cross campus is any less accessible as a venue than a downtown stadium. Most Greater Worcester residents have cars. We have plenty of parking. Not difficult to get in and out on game day. It's not like we're Rutgers trying to sell NYC residents on going to games in Piscataway an hour away. Our campus is in the city of Worcester, right off the highway.
I was not speaking about accessibility at all. The symbolic separation of campus and town is the fence. It is not an issue for me, but I have seen a number of residents comment on it, and not in a positive way.2. The lights give HC a chance to play at a time of day that could generate better attendance. Hard to generate better attendance when the stadium is smaller than the number of tickets we would sell for a night game in Fitton with temporary lights.
Are we going to have temporary lights and an evening game again? If so, that is great but the fact that it is possible does not mean there is any plan to make it happen. 3. Are Coney Island franks better than those served at Fitton? Heck, yes! Maybe we should invest in better hot dogs then? OK, why not give it a try?4. The first time will be special...it is up to HC to keep it as an attractive option IF there is to be a repeat. Definitely agree. Try it out once, make it a big event, see how it goes. Keep option open if pundits like me are wrong and the initial game is a rousing success.
I agree 100% with this last point.
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Post by timholycross on Oct 28, 2020 18:23:56 GMT -5
I would like to think that, but I can't see why we don't have at least one night game at home every year. Playing a night game at Polar is the only justification I can think of for playing there. No tailgating, if that's what would be the case, is the icing on the cake. I will say that if there was a legitimate (not the bogus attendance numbers we have been fed for quite a while now); a crowd in the 8-9K range would be a success.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 28, 2020 19:06:28 GMT -5
I still don't understand how playing football games at a minor league baseball stadium as opposed to Fitton is any more of an "event". Is the "general population" of Worcester not allowed to attend games on the Holy Cross campus or did I miss something? Is a pregame backdrop of a jam-packed Coney Island Hot Dogs going to be that much more of an attractive game day environment than Freshman Field tailgate? Holy Cross football kicks off the grand opening of Polar Park with a game against CCSU or Brown? OK that sounds cool. Count me in. Beyond that, no thanks. Agree with your first paragraph ny, but trust me - CCSU or Brown isn't moving the needle at all to get more local asses in the seats for a at Polar Park than at Fitton. As far as regular HC opponents go - UNH and Harvard might, and that's about it. Specifically mentioned ho-hum OOC opponents like CCSU or Brown as options for such an event because Harvard or UNH games in September at Fitton are games that draw 10-12K. So why restrict the crowd in a smaller venue with bad sight lines? And I wouldn't want to play a PL game there because I wouldn't want to undermine our home field advantage in a conference game by playing at a meh neutral site.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Oct 28, 2020 19:25:55 GMT -5
You could fit all those who wouldn't ordinarily already go to see HC play the likes of CCSU at Fitton (but would on a baseball field) in a phone booth.
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Post by hcgrad94 on Oct 28, 2020 19:26:57 GMT -5
Polar Park will be too small and, as noted above, it's not designed for football. I think neutral site games have an excitement factor to them but minor league baseball isn't it. Holy Cross is one of two, maybe three PL schools that have enough of a brand to attract good guarantee games (Colgate and Fordham are in this group; but try as they might, Lehigh isn't that kind of name.) The fact that Colgate could swing a deal with Stanford is the biggest scheduling news from the PL in more than 20 years. While HC takes a very conservative approach to non-conference scheduling (New England and rarely beyond it), it would not be inconceivable for HC to attract interest from a Tulane, Rice, or Air Force for a really high profile opener. AFA signed Robert Morris for 2023, so that's not out of the consideration set. Northwestern would be a reach, but down the road it might work. The earlier post above complaining about Georgetown's declining schedules is also a function of FCS non-conference scheduling. Georgetown lacks the equivalencies to count as a bowl eligible opponent by a considerable number, and so they aren't considered by any I-A teams, period. And for the first three weeks of the season, much of the rest of FCS is looking for guarantee games, so there's zero reason to schedule a Georgetown when a guarantee game pops up. This was the case with Howard, which cancelled a game late with Georgetown in 2019 to pick up $325,000 to bus to Maryland and get eviscerated, 79-0. After week three, add in the declining interest by Ivy schools to play Georgetown, and there's becoming even less to choose from. I'm only half-kidding about scheduling PSAC games in the future, but other than Marist (a game Sgarlata likes to schedule because he 's from Nyack), I don't know of many interested schools going forward. Road guarantee games and a new, fun, evening home event at a cool, fan friendly venue 1.5 miles from campus are completely different things. And if we sell all 10,000 tickets and there is excess demand, is that a bad thing?
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Post by Tom on Oct 29, 2020 8:02:43 GMT -5
I would like to think that, but I can't see why we don't have at least one night game at home every year. Playing a night game at Polar is the only justification I can think of for playing there. No tailgating, if that's what would be the case, is the icing on the cake.
I will say that if there was a legitimate (not the bogus attendance numbers we have been fed for quite a while now); a crowd in the 8-9K range would be a success. I'm local and not really sure where parking for the new park is going to be. I have not driven down that road lately (maybe I should check it out this weekend). I think there is going to be some limited parking behind the park (expansion of current municipal lot of Green St) and some parking adjacent to the park heading towards Kelly Sq. Not sure if these are going to be lots or garages. . Either way, not a lot of parking as that is a common concern voiced in the city. Tailgating in a garage would be similar to the garage on campus. Sandwiches etc OK, but certainly no grilling. If you like other aspects of tailgating, Fitton, Freshmen, Ho Jos, and even the Hogan lots are on private property. HC can make certain rules. The lots near Polar Park will be on public property. There is an open container law in MA. Be it garage or parking lot, it would be illegal to have adult beverages at a tailgate. The local cops might give the wink, wink, ignore public drinking, but they might not. I posted no tailgating earlier in the thread. You might get some limited amount of tailgating, but it would likely be some sort of hybrid, and very different than what happens on campus
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 29, 2020 8:30:02 GMT -5
HC-Maine in Portland at the SeaDogs stadium in late September would be a great idea.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Oct 29, 2020 10:39:59 GMT -5
HC-Maine in Portland at the SeaDogs stadium in late September would be a great idea. Hadlock Field seats 7,368. Seating is less than Polar Park. I cannot find a configuration chart for football at Hadlock Field. If a football game was to be played in the stadium, the seating configuration is far from ideal to watch a game. The Fordham game at Yankee Stadium was part of a series of events that weekend in NYC for the Become More Campaign. I am still not seeing the attraction to play at a venue not designed for football, particularly when part of the gridiron will be on the infield dirt. Football games, in the past, played in baseball stadiums were done out of necessity as a suitable football stadiums were not available with adequate seating. What is the rationale for playing a football game in a baseball stadium? en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadlock_Fieldwww.milb.com/portland/tickets/ticketinfo
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