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Post by bfoley82 on Mar 11, 2021 22:45:56 GMT -5
Roughly 20 percent of Wesleyan University’s student body comes from the West, the same percentage as from New England. That wasn’t always the case. Wesleyan obviously executed a plan that appears to have largely worked. Whatever plan we have to reach other regions simply isn’t working well enough. And, no, I don’t buy that somehow we won’t be able to succeed because of blah blah blah. This is an interesting stat. Wesleyan has a good reputation but I struggle to see how it's more desirable than HC. It is located in the extremely unexciting Middletown, CT. The campus is far less attractive than HC. It's endowment (I believe) is just a little larger. It is D3 in sports. So it does seem that they have a plan and they execute it well. And WORCESTER is attractive to students?? How so?
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Post by HC92 on Mar 12, 2021 8:30:11 GMT -5
Location is a draw. Wesleyan campus doesn’t hold a candle to HC’s. Wesleyan is uber-liberal and that is attractive to a lot of high school students, particularly on the left coast. HC’s leadership has tried to be just as woke as the Wesleyans of the world but we’ll never win that battle and will continue to alienate those who are in the middle or right of center. Organized religion is also increasingly unpopular among young people so that’s not going to help a school named Holy Cross. We’re in a tough spot. Hopefully the new President can figure out how best to make HC successful going forward.
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Post by hcpride on Mar 12, 2021 9:04:27 GMT -5
/\ Very good points. I also note Wesleyan’s significant applicant overlap schools are Brown, Columbia, Cornell, and Middlebury. Not only supporting the woke label but also indicating its academic reputation.
The general prediction in December was that the more prestigious schools (private and public) would have significant application increases - that includes this secular group of five.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Mar 12, 2021 9:09:17 GMT -5
Location is a draw. Wesleyan campus doesn’t hold a candle to HC’s. Wesleyan is uber-liberal and that is attractive to a lot of high school students, particularly on the left coast. HC’s leadership has tried to be just as woke as the Wesleyans of the world but we’ll never win that battle and will continue to alienate those who are in the middle or right of center. Organized religion is also increasingly unpopular among young people so that’s not going to help a school named Holy Cross. We’re in a tough spot. Hopefully the new President can figure out how best to make HC successful going forward. These are good points. Being a Catholic college is a built-in but not insuperable marketing issue (I think it's harder to market the name "Holy Cross" than the more innocuously named "Georgetown"). It's true that Wesleyan is extremely liberal so that reputation probably appeals to a certain cohort of high school students. And I know that Worcester does not have the best reputation, although I think it is improving (having gone to college there, worked there, and lived there I think that Worcester is greatly underappreciated by many--great restaurants, great colleges, great art museum, AAA baseball team, wonderful people). Wesleyan does have the advantage that its students can easily walk to downtown Middletown which, tough unexciting, has some decent restaurants and shops. I just agree with those that HC could do a better job marketing itself to get some geographic diversity. Grinnell College, for example, is an outstanding small liberal arts college but it is in the middle of Iowa. However, it has more geographic diversity (and a bigger endowment) than HC. I hope that President Rougeau emphasizes the marketing of our school to new areas of the country. Here's a question I don't know the answer to: has HC ever had a student from Hawaii or Alaska?
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Post by HC92 on Mar 12, 2021 10:14:04 GMT -5
As of Fall 2020, 42 states were represented in our student body. Not sure if this includes DC. Might be 41 plus DC.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 12, 2021 10:15:40 GMT -5
We had a student from Alaska--an indigenous person--when I was at HC.
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Post by HC92 on Mar 12, 2021 10:18:56 GMT -5
On a more positive note, my second son (who many here know) was visiting with two doctors in Boston a couple of weeks ago and the topic of colleges came up. He informed them he’s going to HC and then they asked about Harvard where they had both gone. He told them in no uncertain terms he’d still go to HC even if he got into Harvard. Needless to say, they were a little taken aback.
P.S. He’s only a high school freshman so he still needs to get in and could change his mind if we continue to stink at basketball.
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Post by alum on Mar 12, 2021 11:47:00 GMT -5
On a more positive note, my second son (who many here know) was visiting with two doctors in Boston a couple of weeks ago and the topic of colleges came up. He informed them he’s going to HC and then they asked about Harvard where they had both gone. He told them in no uncertain terms he’d still go to HC even if he got into Harvard. Needless to say, they were a little taken aback. P.S. He’s only a high school freshman so he still needs to get in and could change his mind if we continue to stink at basketball. My uncle (HC'50) grew up in Dorchester and graduated first in his class at the Boston Latin School. He was not allowed to go to Harvard because he might "lose his faith." He did get a PhD at Harvard so your son can tell the docs that he'll think about it for law school.
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Post by HC92 on Mar 12, 2021 13:08:13 GMT -5
Going to try very hard to steer my kids away from law school but I suspect at least one of them will ignore my advice.
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Post by higheredguy on Mar 15, 2021 15:45:05 GMT -5
Great observations by all. HC needs to increase its recruitment effort and change the direction of its admissions marketing policies. Another thing to point out, the goal of 820 students is misplaced. Housing and class scheduling are a mess because there are too many students. Those are issues that need to be solved alongside the low application numbers (hire more professors and figure out an on-campus housing solution). Holy Cross' budget is predicated on an enrollment of 3200-3300, x percentage of whom are full pays. Reduce enrollment, and the budget goes into the red. A consequence of budgets in the red are fewer faculty not more. HC this fiscal year has a revenue shortfall of about $30 million; much of that is the result of students not paying room and board to the college during the first semester. HC is about to spend $300 million on residence hall construction, and re-construction. Class scheduling is probably a mess, but this is because of COVID restrictions, that have reduced classroom capacity. So a class with an enrollment of 25 can't squeeze into a classroom with a capacity of 15, instead of the usual 30 student capacity. HC tacitly, if not explicitly, acknowledges this, which is why there is a two-term summer session this year, the first term of which begins before commencement. And there is no added tuition charge. Thanks for the additional information I was unaware of! Glad to hear that the school is offering summer sessions and the previous j-term (something I think the school should keep as other LACs do it). I've heard from students that scheduling was a mess pre-covid. Some departments just do not have the professors to meet the demand (for example, political science). I hope to see additional fundraising for endowed professorships and chairs in the future to address these concerns. Smith College has a dedicated page along with a nice brochure here: www.smith.edu/about-smith/giving/giving-opportunities/endowed-professorshipsMaybe this is something HC should produce for alumni and outside donors? Is this true about new housing plans? It's often been a complaint among students I've encountered.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 15, 2021 19:20:26 GMT -5
Re: the residence halls.
One new hall is to be used as swing space while four (five?) older halls are reconstructed. Similar to the timeframe that Harvard took to reconstruct the 'river houses', reconstruction of the older halls will probably take 12-15 months. This new hall supposedly will have apartment-type suites.
A new, smaller Jesuit residence will be built, allowing the current Jesuit residence to be converted into a student residence hall. The current Jesuit residence has about 2,000 square feet per Jesuit.
^^^ The result should be about 250-300 new student beds, when this new hall is no longer needed for swing space.
Recently, the number of new beds was upped to around 600. Which would mean a second new residence hall housing about 300 students.
The four halls being reconstructed are on Easy St., and are between 60 and 75 years old.
Given the total cost estimate, it may be that Brooks hall will also be re-constructed. It is about 55 years old. Reconstructing Brooks, given the number of beds, would likely require two new residence halls to be in place and used as swing space, unless HC again leased apartments in downtown Worcester.
I expect that, when all is said and done, that all the residence halls will have a reduced density; no more 'triples'. _____________ Villanova's new residence hall complex (with a 1200 space parking garage) has 1,135 beds, and cost $225 million. HC is spending $300 million or thereabouts.
BC's newest hall, Thomas More, houses about 500 students, and cost $50 million. (Estimate seems low.)
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Post by matunuck on Mar 15, 2021 19:34:46 GMT -5
Sure hope they get the exterior architecture right on the dorm remodels.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Mar 15, 2021 20:11:15 GMT -5
PP:
In the plans for new housing, are you aware of HC building a townhouses village on City View St or College St?
I have also been told of a cost of up to $300 million for new and remodel housing.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 16, 2021 7:46:44 GMT -5
PP: In the plans for new housing, are you aware of HC building a townhouses village on City View St or College St? I have also been told of a cost of up to $300 million for new and remodel housing. Yes, on the townhouse idea. However, the lots that HC owns on the north side of City View are polygons. The street frontage is about 400 feet (the house and lot to the immediate west of the Jesuit residence is not owned by HC), My sense was if a re-purposed Ciampi yielded 50 beds, then the townhouses would be sized to provide about 200 more; more than enough in combination to serve initially as swing space for the four oldest Easy St dorms, at a rate of one dorm reconstruction a year. I suspect HC would be hesitant to build townhouses on the south side of City View (where it owns all the lots bot one that is opposite the residence and abuts the Hart parking lot) because the south side of the townhouses would abut private residences. As to the $300 million estimate. Figge, in current $, cost around $25-27 million, for 156 beds and 60,000 square feet. Four Figge equivalents would cost $120 million in current $ and provide about 600 beds. The four Easy St. dorm reconstructions are estimated to cost $20-25 million apiece. The cost is now up to $200-220 million\; add a new Jesuit residence and remodeling of Ciampi for $10-15 million. Cost is up to $210-230 million. This suggests to me that the $300 million includes Brooks and Wheeler. And whether Wheeler is re-purposed or remains a residence hall probably turns on whether HC plans on a 10 percent increase in enrollment.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 16, 2021 8:24:06 GMT -5
Wheeler "re-purposed"? Stop it! Wheeler should always remain as the campus's most outstanding residence hall.
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 16, 2021 9:06:45 GMT -5
Wheeler 3 forever!
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Post by matunuck on Mar 16, 2021 9:23:33 GMT -5
PP: In the plans for new housing, are you aware of HC building a townhouses village on City View St or College St? I have also been told of a cost of up to $300 million for new and remodel housing. Yes, on the townhouse idea. However, the lots that HC owns on the north side of City View are polygons. The street frontage is about 400 feet (the house and lot to the immediate west of the Jesuit residence is not owned by HC), My sense was if a re-purposed Ciampi yielded 50 beds, then the townhouses would be sized to provide about 200 more; more than enough in combination to serve initially as swing space for the four oldest Easy St dorms, at a rate of one dorm reconstruction a year. I suspect HC would be hesitant to build townhouses on the south side of City View (where it owns all the lots bot one that is opposite the residence and abuts the Hart parking lot) because the south side of the townhouses would abut private residences. As to the $300 million estimate. Figge, in current $, cost around $25-27 million, for 156 beds and 60,000 square feet. Four Figge equivalents would cost $120 million in current $ and provide about 600 beds. The four Easy St. dorm reconstructions are estimated to cost $20-25 million apiece. The cost is now up to $200-220 million\; add a new Jesuit residence and remodeling of Ciampi for $10-15 million. Cost is up to $210-230 million. This suggests to me that the $300 million includes Brooks and Wheeler. And whether Wheeler is re-purposed or remains a residence hall probably turns on whether HC plans on a 10 percent increase in enrollment. Increasing enrollment without a corresponding increase in applications would be a mistake.
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Post by alum on Mar 16, 2021 11:00:26 GMT -5
Yes, on the townhouse idea. However, the lots that HC owns on the north side of City View are polygons. The street frontage is about 400 feet (the house and lot to the immediate west of the Jesuit residence is not owned by HC), My sense was if a re-purposed Ciampi yielded 50 beds, then the townhouses would be sized to provide about 200 more; more than enough in combination to serve initially as swing space for the four oldest Easy St dorms, at a rate of one dorm reconstruction a year. I suspect HC would be hesitant to build townhouses on the south side of City View (where it owns all the lots bot one that is opposite the residence and abuts the Hart parking lot) because the south side of the townhouses would abut private residences. As to the $300 million estimate. Figge, in current $, cost around $25-27 million, for 156 beds and 60,000 square feet. Four Figge equivalents would cost $120 million in current $ and provide about 600 beds. The four Easy St. dorm reconstructions are estimated to cost $20-25 million apiece. The cost is now up to $200-220 million\; add a new Jesuit residence and remodeling of Ciampi for $10-15 million. Cost is up to $210-230 million. This suggests to me that the $300 million includes Brooks and Wheeler. And whether Wheeler is re-purposed or remains a residence hall probably turns on whether HC plans on a 10 percent increase in enrollment. Increasing enrollment without a corresponding increase in applications would be a mistake. I would assume that the College thinks that the current housing options are depressing applications. They may be right. I don't think that traditional two person to a room with the bathroom down the hall living is considered desirable and HC has a lot of that.
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Post by matunuck on Mar 16, 2021 11:39:32 GMT -5
Could be but I'd certainly wait for a sustained and significant boost in apps before an enrollment increase.
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Post by higheredguy on Mar 16, 2021 12:01:00 GMT -5
Where are the funds coming from to complete these projects? That's a big price tag. The college shouldn't take on loads of debt without solid funding in place.
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Post by hcpride on Mar 16, 2021 12:14:41 GMT -5
Interesting article today on the leap in applications to the most selective schools and effects of those schools going SAT/ACT optional this year: “Harvard University received more than 57,000 freshman applications for next fall’s entering class, a 42% year-over-year jump. Yale, Columbia and Stanford universities were so overwhelmed they also pushed back the date to announce admission decisions. The University of Southern California’s applications pool beat the prior record by 7%. And New York University topped 100,000 applications, up 17% from last year.” www.wsj.com/articles/college-admission-season-is-crazier-than-ever-that-could-change-who-gets-in-11615909061
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Post by alum on Mar 16, 2021 12:24:02 GMT -5
Interesting article today on the leap in applications to the most selective schools and effects of those schools going SAT/ACT optional this year: “Harvard University received more than 57,000 freshman applications for next fall’s entering class, a 42% year-over-year jump. Yale, Columbia and Stanford universities were so overwhelmed they also pushed back the date to announce admission decisions. The University of Southern California’s applications pool beat the prior record by 7%. And New York University topped 100,000 applications, up 17% from last year.” www.wsj.com/articles/college-admission-season-is-crazier-than-ever-that-could-change-who-gets-in-11615909061What will be interesting is to see if this changes the demographics-international, geographic in the US, first generation, persons of color, LGBTQ, legacies, etc--of the applicant pool, the admitted class and the enrolled class. I doubt if it will change the grades and test scores as the most highly ranked schools because they already reject thousands of well qualified kids each year.
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Post by Chu Chu on Mar 16, 2021 12:43:26 GMT -5
Sure hope they get the exterior architecture right on the dorm remodels. Do you mean so that they blend in with Clark, Hanselman, etc?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 16, 2021 12:53:28 GMT -5
Where are the funds coming from to complete these projects? That's a big price tag. The college shouldn't take on loads of debt without solid funding in place. In my scenario, HC would not build the new residence halls; a third party would do this.. See: news.illinoisstate.edu/2019/08/developer-chosen-for-p3-student-residence-hall-project/I chose this example because it mentions Gilbane, There are many other examples, e.g., Northeastern, where universities have turned to the private sector to build and finance new residence halls. Gilbane is the general contractor for Worcester's new minor league baseball park. Last year, 129B Kendig St, a small parcel of shrub covered ledge (essentially an unbuildable lot) that backs on HC property on City View St was sold for $95,000. The purchaser of this out-of-the-way piece of land, with no value other than to HC, is this guy, www.wbjournal.com/article/2019-power-50-denis-p-dowdleConnecting the dots, Worcester city manager (who previously worked for HC); developer instrumental in developing the land for Worcester's baseball stadium; general contractor for the stadium who also happens to finance and build university housing. The great advantage of having a private developer build new residence halls is that HC doesn't need to bond to finance them, a strategy which could jeopardize its A+ financial grade from Forbes. HC's long term debt is sufficiently low that $100-$120 million of new bonds for reconstructing the old dorms is not an issue. (Dorms are cash cows, particularly when there is zero debt associated with them.) However, $180-200 million of new debt for new residence halls could be an issue, even though money is cheap currently.
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Post by matunuck on Mar 16, 2021 13:22:42 GMT -5
Sure hope they get the exterior architecture right on the dorm remodels. Do you mean so that they blend in with Clark, Hanselman, etc? Exactly
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