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Post by Sons of Vaval on May 30, 2020 22:26:29 GMT -5
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Post by hcpride on May 30, 2020 23:25:41 GMT -5
The looting, arson, and rioting we’ve seen on TV the last couple of nights have been enough to drive the pandemic from the front pages.
I am not familiar with the particular HC zoombombing referenced by Father Burroughs (I do know the term).
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Post by timholycross on May 31, 2020 8:31:50 GMT -5
Something's wrong out there. These major cities for the most part looked unprepared for what transpired. Did it have something to do with the lockdowns and (justifiably) burned out first responders?
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Post by hcpride on May 31, 2020 9:19:16 GMT -5
/\ I was thinking the same thing because it was so violent (wholesale riots, looting, arson, injuries, etc.) in so many cities for a few nights. Finally now we see 25 cities with curfews and many states calling in the National Guard to quell the violent lawbreakers.
Maybe this particular group of mayors initially tried a ‘softer’ approach (not actively confronting violations of social distancing, minor menacing, trespass, and petty vandalism) without really understanding that inevitably leads to more mob violence. As they have now learned to great cost. Compounding the tragedy, the violence had served to undermine or at least drown out the legitimacy of the peaceful protesters.
I thought Atlanta’s mayor was particularly eloquent in highlighting this latter point following the riots/looting there.
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Post by longsuffering on May 31, 2020 9:29:26 GMT -5
/\ I was thinking the same thing because it was so violent (wholesale riots, looting, arson, injuries, etc.) in so many cities for a few nights. Finally now we see 25 cities with curfews and many states calling in the National Guard to quell the violent lawbreakers. Maybe this particular group of mayors initially tried a ‘softer’ approach (not actively confronting violations of social distancing, minor menacing, trespass, and petty vandalism) without really understanding that inevitably leads to more mob violence. As they have now learned to great cost. Compounding the tragedy, the violence had served to undermine or at least drown out the legitimacy of the peaceful protesters. I thought Atlanta’s mayor was particularly effective in highlighting this latter point. The costs to local and state government of these protests will ultimately come out of services for poor people. Much of the money spent to control these anti police brutality demonstrations will go to police in overtime pay. Many are predicting Covid spikes among demonstrators and then their families, etc. The police have face shields and many protesters are bare faced. A thoughtful response from Fr. B. and his team makes more sense.
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Post by hc811215 on May 31, 2020 10:42:54 GMT -5
"If you want peace, work for justice." Pope Paul VI I still can't get over the casual look on the face of the policeman as he murdered that man. I can't imagine how it would make me feel if I was a member of the black community. I can't believe the other three officers who did nothing but watch the murder happen have yet to be charged. This coming just weeks after a young black man was shot to death while jogging. I thought Fr. Burroughs' response was somewhat tepid. Here is the letter from Fr. McShane of Fordham who may be the most impressive President of a Jesuit College or University in America.
Dear Members of the Fordham Family,
It is with a heavy and (let me be honest here) angry heart that I write to you today. I suspect that your hearts are also angry and heavy with sorrow. And how could we not be angry, dismayed and sorrowful at this moment? In the course of the past few painful months, we have witnessed the savage and senseless killings of George Floyd in Minneapolis, and Ahmaud Arbery in Brunswick, as well as many other instances of violence—lethal and not—against people of color in the United States. That is not to mention the longstanding economic violence against people of color and their communities in this country, and the widespread, systemic and shameful disregard for the value of their lives in the eyes of others. (We have seen this systemic disregard quite clearly during the COVID-19 pandemic: amid the suffering across the country, and especially in the Bronx, communities of color were and are more vulnerable and more harshly affected than are white communities.)
I do not think I have to convince any of you that these acts and this state of affairs are sinful and immoral, and that they go against everything that a Jesuit university stands for. I do, however, think that some of our fellow citizens need to be reminded that they are happening every day in our very midst—in our own communities. Although we don’t all like to admit it, people of color—and let’s be frank, especially Black people—live lives of relentlessly hostile scrutiny, and they have been telling us so since the ink on the Thirteenth Amendment was barely dry. Four years ago, when we were confronted with a sadly similar shameful moment, former President Obama wrote that, "When incidents like this occur, there’s a big chunk of our fellow citizenry that feels as if because of the color of their skin, they are not being treated the same. And that hurts. And that should trouble all of us. This is not just a black issue. It’s not just a Hispanic issue. This is an American issue that we should all care about. All fair-minded people should be concerned." And he was and is right. The problems that we must confront belong to all of us. Therefore, we need to own up to them. We have to own them. All of us. Their solutions also need to be owned by everyone, but especially by our leaders and those in positions of authority and influence.
Yesterday, in the immediate aftermath of George Floyd’s death former President Obama once again issued a statement that said, in part, “…we have to remember that for millions of Americans, being treated differently on account of race is tragically, painfully, maddeningly ‘normal’ — whether it’s while dealing with the health care system, or interacting with the criminal justice system, or jogging down the street, or just watching birds in a park.”
As you might imagine, I found myself returning to President Obama’s haunting reflections over and over again in the course of the past few days. And I was made uneasy by them—in the best possible sense of that word. For you see, I heard in them the unmistakable ring of truth. And that truth pierced me to the heart. Therefore, I asked myself how the Fordham family can and should respond to the challenges that the events of past week have presented to us. Of course, as a community of faith, we will pray for the repose of the souls of George Floyd and Ahmaud Arbery. We will also pray for their families as they wrestle with the losses they have suffered in and through the deaths of those whom they loved so dearly. That goes without saying, and I ask you to join me in those fervent prayers.
But, let’s be honest. That is not enough. We must do more. We are a university community. Therefore, we must also recommit ourselves to the work that is proper to us as an academic community. A university’s greatest strength is its intellectual capital—the research, teaching, and learning that occurs both in and outside of the classroom. It is our central mission, and the one on which we expend the great majority of our budget and most of our energy—intellectual and moral. Tapping into these strengths and assets, we must recommit ourselves to the work of educating for justice and to doing all we can to figure out how our beloved nation, to paraphrase President Abraham Lincoln, conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all are created equal, has allowed itself to stray from the ideals (and the promises those ideals hold out to all) upon which it was founded.
We are not, however, merely a university community. We are a Jesuit university community. And what does that mean for us and the work we must undertake? As I have told you before, I believe that the issues that divide and challenge our nation are moral issues. Therefore, I believe that precisely because we are a Jesuit institution, we have a special responsibility to reflect on the events of the past week and on the challenges that they have created for our nation in particularly moral terms. What do I mean? Just this: We can remind our students (and ourselves) that the situation in which the nation now finds itself is one that requires us to engage in an honest examination of conscience and consciousness so that we can be what God wants us to be. If we are willing to engage in this examination of consciousness, we will be able to take the first step toward the conversion of heart that will free us from the bondage of anger, frustration, and suspicion that holds us back.
I will not lie to you. The work of conversion is hard. And frequently it takes time. A long time. But I assure you that it is worth the exertion that it requires. The death of innocents calls us to it. The Gospel that has always stood at the center of our life and mission calls us to it. Therefore, let us all look into our hearts and see what justice would look like for the communities of color that are languishing and being crushed under the weight of racism in our country. Let us take to heart the loving invitation contained in the message issued on Friday by the United States Catholic Conference: “Encounter the people who historically have been disenfranchised [and] continue to experience sadness and pain and more authentically accompany them, listen to their stories, and learn from them, finding substantive ways to enact systemic change. Such encounters will start to bring about the needed transformation of our understanding of true life, charity, and justice in the United States.”
As I said, the work of conversion is hard, but if we commit ourselves to its rigors, we will be able to redeem the promises of our founding ideals for all of our citizens, who are (in the eyes of God) our brothers and sisters. Our beloved brothers and sisters.
You are in my thoughts and prayers today and every day.
Sincerely,
Joseph M. McShane, S.J.
FORDHAM UNIVERSITY
THE JESUIT UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK
441 East Fordham Road | Bronx, NY 10458
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Post by gks on May 31, 2020 19:09:16 GMT -5
Something's wrong out there. These major cities for the most part looked unprepared for what transpired. Did it have something to do with the lockdowns and (justifiably) burned out first responders? They were under prepared by choice. Minneapolis' slow response was disgusting. That cop should have been rooted out of the MPD years ago but local government and politicians too scared to stand up to police union. Rant over.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on May 31, 2020 22:00:04 GMT -5
How unbelievable is it that the Minneapolis police abandoned a precinct house and let the animals destroy it?
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Post by hchoops on May 31, 2020 22:04:25 GMT -5
Maybe you want change one word there, ky
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on May 31, 2020 22:11:19 GMT -5
I double-checked the spelling-everything looks correct to me.
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Post by hcpride on Jun 1, 2020 4:02:45 GMT -5
Doubtlessly Fr. B and Fordham President Fr. McShane have heard about the current violence, looting, and arson taking place during the riots. One imagines they could write letters condemning that sort of conduct.
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Post by gocrossgo on Jun 1, 2020 16:12:47 GMT -5
It seems all “protests” or “riots” in Worcester and the surrounding area have been nothing but peaceful, with the WPD marching along with the protesters. A bright spot in a dark time.
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Post by hcpride on Jun 1, 2020 16:35:27 GMT -5
It seems all “protests” or “riots” in Worcester and the surrounding area have been nothing but peaceful, with the WPD marching along with the protesters. A bright spot in a dark time. Thank goodness. Worcester is doing much better than Boston...we can only hope those prone to violence steer clear. Police Announce Charges Against 53 People In Boston RiotsBOSTON (CBS) – Police released a list of people arrested during a destructive night in Boston. A total of 53 people were arrested and one summonsed on a variety of charges in the aftermath of protests in response to the death of George Floyd. Boston Police said 27 of the people arrested Sunday night into early Monday morning were Boston residents. An additional 24 people were from outside of the city. Two of those arrested were from out of state, and one person who was summonsed was also from out of state. Mayor Marty Walsh said nine police officers were hospitalized and dozens were treated in the field after violence broke out at the conclusion of protest that featured thousands of people. Walsh said another 18 people were hospitalized and “untold economic damage” was done. People were arrested on charges that included destruction of property, assault and battery on a police officer, inciting a riot, breaking and entering, and disturbing the peace, among others. boston.cbslocal.com/2020/06/01/george-floyd-boston-riots-arrest-charges/
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Post by timholycross on Jun 1, 2020 19:52:40 GMT -5
Maybe you want change one word there, ky "Criminals?"
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jun 1, 2020 20:32:49 GMT -5
Maybe you want change one word there, ky I saw the videos. Throwing trash cans through windows and then lighting the storefronts on fire while looting the store is animalistic in my book.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jun 1, 2020 20:43:06 GMT -5
I've never seen any kind of animal torch a building, have two in my home, and I spend lots of time in the woods walking peacefully among them.
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Post by hcpride on Jun 2, 2020 5:39:07 GMT -5
Humans are animals. Shout-out to the late Professor Healy for that one. Beyond that I am still hopeful a message condemning the violence (and perhaps noting its impact on the underclass and any social justice message) might come from Father Burroughs or Fordham President Father McShane. It was reported pretty widely that one of the arrested Molotov cocktail tossers in NYC two nights ago was a rather privileged Fordham Law graduate. www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/06/01/molotov-cocktail-tossing-lawyers-tried-to-pass-out-explosives-cops/amp/On a lighter note her mug shot T-shirt is quite something.
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 2, 2020 7:28:00 GMT -5
Some of us seem to group protesters with the vandals and thieves who use such protests for their own ends together as one group. They clearly are not. I have seen many on this board in agreement with the protests over the unjust death of Mr. Floyd. I have also seen some express puzzlement about how stealing a large television can reduce systemic racism in any way. Clearly, it cannot.
I hope we all can try to see the distinction that others make in their responses to what is going on (and has been going on for some time) in this country. My years working with inner-city residents (teens and parolees) in Paterson, NJ showed me many ways to respond when such things happen. In a most positive response, the football team had an outstanding video stating their feelings about the killing and about racism. That sort of video statement serves, IMHO, a positive purpose and helps strengthen the bonds of those who made it and who watch it. I hope we see other such positive statements coming out of this tragedy and that the dialogue about race continues to find positive things upon which to build.
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Post by hc811215 on Jun 2, 2020 8:52:23 GMT -5
The vast majority of protesters are non-violent and not criminal. As has historically been the case, there have been some who try to take advantage of the situation for their own ends. Just as many of you would not want all police judged by the acts of the murderous Derek Chauvin and his three criminal compatriots, the hundreds of thousands of protesters should not be judged by the relatively few in number who cause property damage and loot.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 2, 2020 9:11:43 GMT -5
I see a simple solution. All legit peaceful protesters arrive at 6PM and go home at 7PM. The idiots will only have one hour of cover in daylight and the legit protesters will be in a park or in front of City Hall, not in front of the Nike store.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Jun 2, 2020 9:12:04 GMT -5
The vast majority of protesters are non-violent and not criminal. As has historically been the case, there have been some who try to take advantage of the situation for their own ends. Just as many of you would not want all police judged by the acts of the murderous Derek Chauvin and his three criminal compatriots, the hundreds of thousands of protesters should not be judged by the relatively few in number who cause property damage and loot. A point I was looking to make, but glad you beat me to it.
Not all protestors are looters? Not all cops are murderers. Not all people are racist. Not all people are bigoted. Not all people are corrupt. Not all people are anarchists. Not all people are antagonists.
But plenty of white people are citing these behaviors as reasons (just or unjust) for their own biases. And plenty of black people are citing these behaviors as reasons (just or unjust) for their own biases.
This is not a race issue. This is a people issue. As my high school theology teacher Dr. Conti often told us: If you're lucky enough to reach the afterlife, don't ask for justice-- ask for mercy.
My opinion? Nobody wants justice. They say the word, but don't know what it means. These bad actors are out for revenge. They're out to get "theirs." On both sides of the equation. They want to make the other party feel their hurt, their anger, their pain. In this most-recent police brutality instance, they're saying they want everyone in jail for life. I'm not a judge... that *could* be the correct sentencing for a guilty party... but they're not suggesting that the officers are due a trial by jury of their peers.
Smashing innocent parties' businesses do not weigh on the scales of justice. They help feed a baser human need to rage back, fight back, act out. I empathize with the sentiment-- I've got a bad temper-- but from a moral standpoint, I cannot equate the actions with the desired outcomes.
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 2, 2020 9:17:33 GMT -5
WCHC...nicely worded. I like the logic of your statement.
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Post by gocrossgo on Jun 2, 2020 9:28:30 GMT -5
Unless I was dreaming, I overheard someone say that 2 were arrested in Worcester last night. I’d like to believe it was with good reason and the WPD didn’t slap the cuffs on while they were being peaceful.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Jun 2, 2020 9:41:03 GMT -5
Unless I was dreaming, I overheard someone say that 2 were arrested in Worcester last night. I’d like to believe it was with good reason and the WPD didn’t slap the cuffs on while they were being peaceful. I'm going to quickly wade out of my depth into legal territory here, so I look forward to the inevitable corrections I deserve: I was under the impression that protestors in many locales need to have a permit. I've heard in NYC it often means not blocking traffic, causing major disruptions, and staying in designated areas. Now I get the notion that a protest should make people feel uncomfortable and inconvenienced to help get the point across, but there are certain codes against complete anarchy.
A peaceful protestor could lie in the middle of Park Avenue but I'm pretty sure if they are not following the rules (odd juxtaposition, "rules" and "protests", against one another) they can go to jail.
It's another subtlety that is glossed over by news reports and Twitter posts: "Look, he was being peaceful and had his hands up but he got arrested! Look at the brutality and injustice!" There must be some code governing that right to assembly peacefully and exercise the First Amendment. Maybe the protestors need a lawyer to help advise
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Post by hcpride on Jun 2, 2020 10:02:11 GMT -5
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