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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jun 8, 2020 17:04:43 GMT -5
All the PL needs to do is collectively sign off on 3 simple rule changes and it will be instantaneously on par with (or better than) the CAA, and we all know what those 3 are. The two leagues could then merge and have regional divisions based on geography, creating easy travel, better crowds, better media coverage, and real rivalries. You're nuts.
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Post by joe on Jun 8, 2020 17:05:08 GMT -5
We can be whatever we want to be academically and do not need to be in this league or that league to do it. Short answer is yes.
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Post by joe on Jun 8, 2020 17:06:00 GMT -5
All the PL needs to do is collectively sign off on 3 simple rule changes and it will be instantaneously on par with (or better than) the CAA, and we all know what those 3 are. The two leagues could then merge and have regional divisions based on geography, creating easy travel, better crowds, better media coverage, and real rivalries. You're nuts. Good thing there’s a screen between us.
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Post by hcpride on Jun 8, 2020 18:23:13 GMT -5
CAA FB > than PL FB by any measure. Not debating that, it is, no question. My argument is: will Villanova really care that much about being that competitive at this level when, truth be told, it really doesn't do much for the school in terms of branding. HC draws bettah than Nova right now, there is really no TV/playoff $$$ etc to be made at this level etc etc Why not play GTown, Fordham and HC instead of Elon, Maine and URI?....is the question they may start to ask themselves... Not to kick you when you are down (in your stages of grief) while simultaneously opening an old wound but Nova does play Georgetown two or three times a year in men's hoops in that other league they play in .
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Post by hc87 on Jun 8, 2020 19:11:56 GMT -5
No I hear ya....just that Villanova may get tired of playing in the CAA, and even being one of the bettah FCS programs in the country as it really barely moves the sports needle. I would wager to bet that not more than 50 or so people (not affiliated with Villanova) in Massachusetts know Villanova lost to SE Louisiana in the playoffs last year.
I like the FCS level of football, but the vast majority of people don't even think it's D1....why be in a league with a disparate group of schools, literally up and down the East Coast, when they could be in a league with more similar minded schools in a smaller geographic radius?
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jun 8, 2020 19:16:20 GMT -5
Hoops is the Nova brand, not football Basically my point....Nova switching to PL football from CAA football doesn't really change the scope of their program that much... but they will then be in a league with Georgetown, Fordham and HC as well as local private schools in their backyard. Which is why 'Nova to the PL in football COULD happen...in 10-15 years. Like Richmond, they have enough well-heeled football alum boosters that would go bananas at the idea of downgrading to the PL and without a doubt pull funding. And when you bring up geography, Villanova is actually in a pretty prime location within the CAA footprint. Only really long trips are Elon, UNH and Maine. And the way the schedule is laid, chances are they only travel to one of these schools each season.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jun 8, 2020 19:21:45 GMT -5
Four teams from the Quaker State would make an "Arnold Palmer" the official league soft drink and would certainly upgrade PL football. A plus for HC other than making it 14% less likely to win the league and putting the squeeze on our nascent rivalry with Merrimack. While Nova would reduce it's travel, HC travel would probably increase as most of our OOC games, of which we would have to sacrifice one, are local New England teams. We have distant history with Villanova and it's a Catholic School but are the Wildcats a better fit than UNH, Harvard, Brown, Dartmouth, Yale? An extra league game would compact our OOC season and the Ivies start late, so instead of losing Merrimack/Central CT./Bryant we could lose a regional foe we've been playing for more than a century. Gaining Villanova as a periodic OOC game might be better than expanding the league to play them, unless Georgetown joins a regional league or Fordham looks at their $100 million shortfall and puts football on hiatus again. I've explained multiple times why OOC games between HC and Villanova never happen in football. Given an 8-game CAA slate, 'Nova only has 3-4 OOC games to play. 1 is always an FBS and tends to be Temple about every other year. That leaves 2-3 OOC games. Given that the CAA schedule already involves multiple trips to New England, they tend to keep their non-conference schedule more local. That's why when they play Patriot League teams, it's always one of the Pennsylvania schools or Fordham. They also play Penn on a somewhat regular basis.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jun 8, 2020 19:26:15 GMT -5
No I hear ya.... just that Villanova may get tired of playing in the CAA, and even being one of the bettah FCS programs in the country as it really barely moves the sports needle. I would wager to bet that not more than 50 or so people (not affiliated with Villanova) in Massachusetts know Villanova lost to SE Louisiana in the playoffs last year. I like the FCS level of football, but the vast majority of people don't even think it's D1....why be in a league with a disparate group of schools, literally up and down the East Coast, when they could be in a league with more similar minded schools in a smaller geographic radius? Wut?
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Post by thecrossisback on Jun 8, 2020 19:26:18 GMT -5
I would wager to bet that not more than 50 or so people (not affiliated with Villanova) in Massachusetts know Villanova lost to SE Louisiana in the playoffs last year. I like the FCS level of football, but the vast majority of people don't even think it's D1....why be in a league with a disparate group of schools, literally up and down the East Coast, when they could be in a league with more similar minded schools in a smaller geographic radius? I agree with the top statement that probably nobody knows that. But when it comes to the people that think FCS is not Division 1, in my opinion they know absolutely nothing about college football. Some of the best FCS teams would bury bottom FBS schools. If the IVY schedules weren't so strict. They best IVY's would start beating teams around the country. FCS at least has a legit playoff bracket that lets all the conference champs and at large bids in. It's not perfect. But it is not FBS where 4 big name schools get in. UCF went undefeated and never made the top 4. That playoff is made for SEC, BIG 10, BIG 12, Notre Dame and Clemson. Not the teams with the best records, but the popular teams. Everyone else you are out of luck.
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Post by hcpride on Jun 8, 2020 19:55:22 GMT -5
Four teams from the Quaker State would make an "Arnold Palmer" the official league soft drink and would certainly upgrade PL football. A plus for HC other than making it 14% less likely to win the league and putting the squeeze on our nascent rivalry with Merrimack. While Nova would reduce it's travel, HC travel would probably increase as most of our OOC games, of which we would have to sacrifice one, are local New England teams. We have distant history with Villanova and it's a Catholic School but are the Wildcats a better fit than UNH, Harvard, Brown, Dartmouth, Yale? An extra league game would compact our OOC season and the Ivies start late, so instead of losing Merrimack/Central CT./Bryant we could lose a regional foe we've been playing for more than a century. Gaining Villanova as a periodic OOC game might be better than expanding the league to play them, unless Georgetown joins a regional league or Fordham looks at their $100 million shortfall and puts football on hiatus again. I've explained multiple times why OOC games between HC and Villanova never happen in football. Given an 8-game CAA slate, 'Nova only has 3-4 OOC games to play. 1 is always an FBS and tends to be Temple about every other year. That leaves 2-3 OOC games. Given that the CAA schedule already involves multiple trips to New England, they tend to keep their non-conference schedule more local. That's why when they play Patriot League teams, it's always one of the Pennsylvania schools or Fordham. They also play Penn on a somewhat regular basis. I agree although this year Nova did play 3 PL schools plus LIU (game 1 of a home and away to be completed in 2021). ————- Nova would see no upside in dropping down to PL-level football.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jun 8, 2020 19:58:55 GMT -5
I've explained multiple times why OOC games between HC and Villanova never happen in football. Given an 8-game CAA slate, 'Nova only has 3-4 OOC games to play. 1 is always an FBS and tends to be Temple about every other year. That leaves 2-3 OOC games. Given that the CAA schedule already involves multiple trips to New England, they tend to keep their non-conference schedule more local. That's why when they play Patriot League teams, it's always one of the Pennsylvania schools or Fordham. They also play Penn on a somewhat regular basis. I agree although this year Nova did play 3 PL schools plus LIU (game 1 of a home and away to be completed in 2021). ————- Nova would see no upside in dropping down to PL-level football. All in-state PA schools.
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Post by hcpride on Jun 8, 2020 20:02:03 GMT -5
I agree although this year Nova did play 3 PL schools plus LIU (game 1 of a home and away to be completed in 2021). ————- Nova would see no upside in dropping down to PL-level football. All in-state PA schools. Colgate is in NY. (and the game was at Colgate).
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jun 8, 2020 20:06:46 GMT -5
Colgate is in NY. (and the game was at Colgate). I forgot about that one! Watched it on TV -- 1st college football game of the year nationally. That was the game we learned indeed how far Colgate had fallen off of their 2018 high.
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 8, 2020 20:13:05 GMT -5
Villanova had, has, and will have no interest in the PL.
Yet, the league continues to avoid expansion figuring none of its schools would ever look beyond the gilded cage of AI-regulated football. Eventually, someone will.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 8, 2020 20:33:14 GMT -5
Four teams from the Quaker State would make an "Arnold Palmer" the official league soft drink and would certainly upgrade PL football. A plus for HC other than making it 14% less likely to win the league and putting the squeeze on our nascent rivalry with Merrimack. While Nova would reduce it's travel, HC travel would probably increase as most of our OOC games, of which we would have to sacrifice one, are local New England teams. We have distant history with Villanova and it's a Catholic School but are the Wildcats a better fit than UNH, Harvard, Brown, Dartmouth, Yale? An extra league game would compact our OOC season and the Ivies start late, so instead of losing Merrimack/Central CT./Bryant we could lose a regional foe we've been playing for more than a century. Gaining Villanova as a periodic OOC game might be better than expanding the league to play them, unless Georgetown joins a regional league or Fordham looks at their $100 million shortfall and puts football on hiatus again. I've explained multiple times why OOC games between HC and Villanova never happen in football. Given an 8-game CAA slate, 'Nova only has 3-4 OOC games to play. 1 is always an FBS and tends to be Temple about every other year. That leaves 2-3 OOC games. Given that the CAA schedule already involves multiple trips to New England, they tend to keep their non-conference schedule more local. That's why when they play Patriot League teams, it's always one of the Pennsylvania schools or Fordham. They also play Penn on a somewhat regular basis. Yes, you've explained that and it makes sense. I'll change my position: Protect the seven team league configuration to keep HC's easy path to the playoffs and keep our robust OOC options open. I can't think of a better school than Villanova if the PL needs a new member but I like the advantages of the current arrangement.
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 8, 2020 23:08:06 GMT -5
Again, going to my point....PL football may seem more "attractive" down the road to Villanova playing the likes of Georgetown, Colgate, Lafayette et. al. in terms of its school branding instead of playing Towson or Albany in front of 3,000 fans at home etc I'm not saying it will or should happen...but I could easily see it happen. Villanova reported an average attendance of 6,003 fans in 2019 with the lowest attended game against NEC member LIU which was 3051. And there was no way that Holy Cross had nearly 11k fans for the Colgate game.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 9, 2020 9:21:38 GMT -5
Right you are, no doubt--Holy Cross is the one US college that exaggerates its attendance figures. All other institutions are scrupulous about reporting turnstile figures, not tickets sold, and there's no padding whatsoever
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 9, 2020 10:08:12 GMT -5
lol ...and schools still seem to act as if people care.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 9, 2020 12:06:28 GMT -5
They haven't been announcing the numbers of PLN viewers per game, but if the season proceeds without live fans, perhaps PL schools will crow about a 282% increase in per game viewership next year. I also think HC has some loyal older fans who have difficulty getting to games in the winter and trying to give away HC BB tickets is not the same as tickets to Fenway Park or Boston Garden. Even when you give them away people often don't show.
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 9, 2020 21:47:36 GMT -5
Right you are, no doubt--Holy Cross is the one US college that exaggerates its attendance figures. All other institutions are scrupulous about reporting turnstile figures, not tickets sold, and there's no padding whatsoever FWIW, Colgate claimed this game as an attendance of 1,827.
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Post by hc87 on Jun 9, 2020 22:05:28 GMT -5
It is what it is but it's mostly sad basically.....PL football (and really all non P5 college football ) attendance has just plummeted during the 21st C outside of a very few outliers.
What's depressing is that there really is no answer to this problem in general.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 9, 2020 22:38:29 GMT -5
It is what it is but it's mostly sad basically.....PL football (and really all non P5 college football ) attendance has just plummeted during the 21st C outside of a very few outliers. What's depressing is that there really is no answer to this problem in general. As is made evident by the rise of country music, soccer, and auto racing: we cannot force people to have good taste or to make the right choice between entertainment options.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 10, 2020 1:11:20 GMT -5
Right you are, no doubt--Holy Cross is the one US college that exaggerates its attendance figures. All other institutions are scrupulous about reporting turnstile figures, not tickets sold, and there's no padding whatsoever FWIW, Colgate claimed this game as an attendance of 1,827. 1827 includes the players, coaches, refs, band, reporter, ticket taker and hot dog maker.😊
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Post by HC92 on Jun 10, 2020 6:57:20 GMT -5
Right you are, no doubt--Holy Cross is the one US college that exaggerates its attendance figures. All other institutions are scrupulous about reporting turnstile figures, not tickets sold, and there's no padding whatsoever FWIW, Colgate claimed this game as an attendance of 1,827. Pretty sure that’s the game where, as a gesture of local goodwill, they gave every student at Hamilton College a free ticket and included those tickets in the attendance number.
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Post by matunuck on Jun 10, 2020 9:11:19 GMT -5
Still don’t quite get how Robert Morris has an FCS football program at all given the size of their endowment.
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