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Post by rgs318 on Jun 18, 2020 7:55:06 GMT -5
If a homeowner decides that she no longer likes a piece of artwork in her home or the flowers in his yard or the color of their car, must that person check with you before replacing it? Why the heck can't the people at Dartmouth look at something and say, "Hell, this stereotypical depiction of Native Americans isn't great. It has been here for a hundred years. Let's replace it with something new?" Do you complain if your neighbors decide to change the color of their houses or their political parties? Why the need to keep every damn old thing just because it's old? You know, I would imagine that when Holy Cross did away with mandatory chapel attendance, a whole bunch of guys from the class of 1913 were really ticked off. I have not seen anywhere that someone has said to keep this "because it is old." Where did that argument come from? That would be as foolish as saying everything that exists should be replaced because "newer" always means "better."
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jun 18, 2020 7:55:26 GMT -5
The weather vane depicts Eleazar Wheelock, the founder of Dartmouth, and a Native American student. Wheelock was a missionary and founded Dartmouth as a school where he could teach Native Americans.
So, yeah, Dartmouth can do whatever they want with their campus, it’s a shame what — to me — is a cool and aesthetic piece of their history being taken down.
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 18, 2020 7:58:17 GMT -5
When it is removed, I hope it can be preserved somewhere as a piece of Dartmouth's history.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 18, 2020 9:11:44 GMT -5
In the book "Missions to the North American Indians" published in London in 1795, there is described the provisioning of rum to the Indians. According to Dartmouth, among the objects depicted on the wind vane is a barrel of rum.
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 18, 2020 9:38:23 GMT -5
I thought that was part of the purchase price of land received from the Indians. Is any reference to alcohol now politically incorrect? What might that mean for the Mass?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 18, 2020 10:13:08 GMT -5
I thought that was part of the purchase price of land received from the Indians. Is any reference to alcohol now politically incorrect? What might that mean for the Mass? I think it's the association of alcohol with Native Americans that is the issue
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 18, 2020 10:45:59 GMT -5
The book, a contemporaneous account, indicates the Indians, having no prior experience with alcohol, quickly became alcoholics. The tribal chiefs forbade alcohol consumption, but without success, as alcoholic spirits continued to be supplied. For the white men, it seems providing the Indians with alcohol made them dependent and pliant.
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Post by Tom on Jun 18, 2020 11:38:33 GMT -5
Is any reference to alcohol now politically incorrect? Yes - that is why so many houses on Caro street have been razed
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Post by hcpride on Jun 18, 2020 11:46:51 GMT -5
Lest one think the weather vane in question illustrates a Native American drinking alcohol...well, not so much (but one shape in question and in the background might be a rum barrel). Given the fact that the weather vane is on the top of a cupola on the top of a tall building I am not sure much is visible to those who try to view it from the distant ground below (not saying that is relevant to Dartmouth's decision).
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 18, 2020 14:58:44 GMT -5
Speaker Pelosi has ordered removed from the walls of the Capitol the portraits of four Speakers of the House who were members of the Confederacy: Robert Hunter-Whig- of Virginia; Howell Cobb-Democrat-of Georgia; James Orr-Democrat-of South Carolina; and Charles Crisp--Democrat- of Georgia.
I lived in Cobb County, Georgia for a number of years but that county was named after a US Senator & Judge, Thomas Willis Cobb, not the US Speaker
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 18, 2020 18:40:21 GMT -5
Is any reference to alcohol now politically incorrect? Yes - that is why so many houses on Caro street have been razed Good one. Q: Did the Catholic Church use wine in Mass during prohibition? A: Yes, there was an exemption for medicinal and sacramental use of alcohol. There was no Priest shortage during Prohibition.
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 18, 2020 19:02:32 GMT -5
Christian Brothers' Winery in NY made altar wine for the Church. Their annual output would have supplied all the Churches east of the Mississippi for about 10 years. It was obviously a time of sincere devotion.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 18, 2020 20:08:17 GMT -5
Brown-Forman made Old Forester Bourbon throughout Prohibition as the brand was one of those that physicians could prescribe for patients.
When asked what he thought about Prohibition, Will Rogers replied “Well, it’s better than no whiskey at all”.
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Post by Dean Wormer on Jun 19, 2020 8:11:54 GMT -5
I knew I should have stepped in yesterday. Someone want to tell me what this has to do with the Crusader nickname? Doesn't seem like much of any of the 5+ pages here has anything to do the Crusader nickname and the title of this thread was an excuse to discuss this in this way.
I'll have more to say later, but am going to lock this thread.
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