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Post by lou on Jul 15, 2020 10:35:10 GMT -5
I grew up 20 miles away from HC. If I were a student today, would the school have prohibited me from living at home? Another thing I noticed. It said that they'd send a student home if he/she got the virus. What if the parents had at risk conditions? I would expect most households to be ready for this situation. It's a possibility whether a student is sent home or already lives at home
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Post by hc89 on Jul 15, 2020 10:38:16 GMT -5
I grew up 20 miles away from HC. If I were a student today, would the school have prohibited me from living at home? Another thing I noticed. It said that they'd send a student home if he/she got the virus. What if the parents had at risk conditions? A student can live at home and “commute” to campus. A student cannot live in an off campus apartment (unless he/she was granted “permission” to do so last fall) and “commute” to campus. No more “permission” to live off campus will be granted until the dorms are chock full of students. At HC the bottom line is the bottom line...
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Post by crusader99 on Jul 15, 2020 10:39:43 GMT -5
From our research, and having had another child matriculate from the College, the money is a wash with the cost to rent/eat for off-campus the same as the room/board (+/- a few dollars); just that the $ flow to others and not the College. Most apartments have full kitchens with living rooms -- with the newer buildings having other amenities such as 24 hour security, on-site parking, storage, common study areas, recreational and exercise equipment and, more importantly, the lack of a RA or another monitoring movement. The College should take this opportunity to adjust with their customers. History is replete with examples of organizations that do not.
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Post by alum on Jul 15, 2020 10:43:41 GMT -5
What specifically are HC's failings compared to the other schools you've listed? See response of njcrusader above. I also have a child at Nova and have been following the responses of other like colleges to this awful mess. A common theme of other school’s responses is “students first”. Take a look at PC’s website (“As faculty members, staff members and administrators, we must commit to keeping the welfare of our students foremost”). At Nova, the message is “We will get through this together”. These schools highlight the “possibilities”. HC’s response is “bottom line first”. “Our ‘financial models’ require us to force our students to live in more densely populated dorms because we do not want to take a financial hit”. You have about 50-60 students (mostly seniors) seeking to go to Worcester to be with their classmates that are willing to help HC de-densify the campus by living elsewhere (at much greater expense) and they are being denied “permission” to do so. HC has chosen $$ over the health and safety (and overall well-being) of these students. This is not surmise, by the way- it is being openly stated during the various webinars and Zoom calls being held. Dean Irish repeated it twice yesterday. When he said it the first time, it met with some shock. When he was asked in follow up if money is the prime reason for the denial of “permission” to live off-campus, he confirmed that is is! I give him high marks for being brutally honest. This is not his decision. It is the decision of the “rudderless” ship that HC has unfortunately become. This is sad and shortsighted. Where have you gone Father Swords and Father Brooks? Given the restrictions placed on students on campus, I think that it is safe to assume that the entire social life will be "OC" as we said way back in the early 80's. I have no doubt that the College wants to keep the kids on campus for the revenue but I am also sure that they are terrified about what will happen outside the gates, both with regard to partying and with regard to the possibility of transmission of the virus. It occurs to me that the decision to send kids home if they live within 250 miles of campus might backfire because kids will ignore their symptoms and "forget" the names of those with whom they have come in contact so as to keep themselves and their friends in Worcester.
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Post by HC92 on Jul 15, 2020 11:10:54 GMT -5
Time for Fr. B to be replaced. Keep him in a fundraising role if that’s what he’s good at. He is not good at leading, making decisions, communicating them or running a business.
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Post by alum on Jul 15, 2020 11:45:34 GMT -5
Time for Fr. B to be replaced. Keep him in a fundraising role if that’s what he’s good at. He is not good at leading, making decisions, communicating them or running a business. It is time anyway. He has been at the College for eight and a half years and the campaign is over (or should be.) But for the pandemic, I suspect that he would announce in September that he was resigning on July 1, 2021. A search would begin immediately, a new person would be hired in January to start in July. I'm just not sure if the pandemic will affect who is available. Some might want to stay where they are to see their current schools through to the end of this.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 15, 2020 12:20:36 GMT -5
^^^ Thank you for your reply.
As I understand the housing situation at HC, state guidelines allow no more than two students to a room. HC is going with two students per room; not one, as some colleges and universities have done. The latter is achieved by only bringing one or two class years on-campus at a time. The two students per room limit requires some HC students to reside off campus.
The housing situation is further complicated because (1) several hundred students who would be studying abroad, cannot; (2) the entering freshman class apparently being larger in numbers than the target; (3) the setting aside of some spaces on campus for isolation and/or quarantine.
Subtractions are (1) students choosing to live at home and take classes virtually; (2) students deferring their enrollment; (3) students taking the year off; (4) foreign students (50-60?) who may have trouble entering the United States., if they are not already here.
With these uncertainties, HC is expecting several hundred or more students to live off-campus, for which HC has leased space. This may include the space in a new apartment building in downtown Worcester that appears to have been built expressly to house students from Worcester's residential colleges and universities. HC has supposedly used this building in the past year or two. As I understand the student handbook, students who had earlier applied to live off-campus, and were approved, will continue to do so.
Which leaves this supposed group of 50-60 seniors who were going to live on-campus, and now want to live off-campus in a less restrictive environment, and let's be honest, where they can gather in groups and party.
The positive test rate for the city of Worcester for the 14 days ending July 8, was 4.17%, among the highest for MA cities. Cambridge's rate was 0.67%, Boston's was 2.27%. Madison County, where Colgate is located, had a rate of 0.3 percent two days ago. Fairfield County is doing very well, the daily positive test number is running between zero and five. While I cannot readily find a test rate for Montgomery Co. PA, that county has the second highest number of cases in PA after Philadelphia Co. Must reflect the mobile nature of residents living on the Main Line, and I say that having lived in Montgomery county (quite close to the university on Lancaster Pike).
So I think HC ought be rightly concerned about the comparatively high rate of COVID infections among Worcester residents; the seven-day running MA average state-wide is 1.7-1.8 percent.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 15, 2020 12:36:21 GMT -5
See response of njcrusader above. I also have a child at Nova and have been following the responses of other like colleges to this awful mess. Given the restrictions placed on students on campus, I think that it is safe to assume that the entire social life will be "OC" as we said way back in the early 80's. I have no doubt that the College wants to keep the kids on campus for the revenue but I am also sure that they are terrified about what will happen outside the gates, both with regard to partying and with regard to the possibility of transmission of the virus. It occurs to me that the decision to send kids home if they live within 250 miles of campus might backfire because kids will ignore their symptoms and "forget" the names of those with whom they have come in contact so as to keep themselves and their friends in Worcester. The college at one point earlier in the spring was considering erecting modular housing, which can be put up quickly. I assumed it would be used for students who were in isolation/ quarantine..
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 15, 2020 12:52:21 GMT -5
I will add that the University of Pennsylvania's COVID infections model currently predicts a surge / resurgence of cases late summer / fall in all regions of the country, except for New England.
For the Northeast other than New England, the model is predicting surges in the suburbs of I-95 cities, south of New York. Most of the models are picking up that the virus is being spread along the Interstate corridors, and once seeded, it then 'metastasizes' locally.
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Post by hc89 on Jul 15, 2020 12:52:46 GMT -5
^^^ Thank you for your reply. As I understand the housing situation at HC, state guidelines allow no more than two students to a room. HC is going with two students per room; not one, as some colleges and universities have done. The latter is achieved by only bringing one or two class years on-campus at a time. The two students per room limit requires some HC students to reside off campus. The housing situation is further complicated because (1) several hundred students who would be studying abroad, cannot; (2) the entering freshman class apparently being larger in numbers than the target; (3) the setting aside of some spaces on campus for isolation and/or quarantine. Subtractions are (1) students choosing to live at home and take classes virtually; (2) students deferring their enrollment; (3) students taking the year off; (4) foreign students (50-60?) who may have trouble entering the United States., if they are not already here. With these uncertainties, HC is expecting several hundred or more students to live off-campus, for which HC has leased space. This may include the space in a new apartment building in downtown Worcester that appears to have been built expressly to house students from Worcester's residential colleges and universities. HC has supposedly used this building in the past year or two. As I understand the student handbook, students who had earlier applied to live off-campus, and were approved, will continue to do so. Which leaves this supposed group of 50-60 seniors who were going to live on-campus, and now want to live off-campus in a less restrictive environment, and let's be honest, where they can gather in groups and party. The positive test rate for the city of Worcester for the 14 days ending July 8, was 4.17%, among the highest for MA cities. Cambridge's rate was 0.67%, Boston's was 2.27%. Madison County, where Colgate is located, had a rate of 0.3 percent two days ago. Fairfield County is doing very well, the daily positive test number is running between zero and five. While I cannot readily find a test rate for Montgomery Co. PA, that county has the second highest number of cases in PA after Philadelphia Co. Must reflect the mobile nature of residents living on the Main Line, and I say that having lived in Montgomery county (quite close to the university on Lancaster Pike). So I think HC ought be rightly concerned about the comparatively high rate of COVID infections among Worcester residents; the seven-day running MA average state-wide is 1.7-1.8 percent. You can dress it up any way you like. HC has admitted this is a "money decision", plain and simple. This has nothing to do with protecting Worcester residents (and certainly has NOTHING to do with protecting its OWN STUDENTS). Listen to the replay of Dean Irish's Zoom call yesterday. He lays it out in no uncertain terms. Brutal honesty. "We need the money".
The "leased space" can ONLY be used if all dorms are filled to the brim with "paying" students. No student may live at The Edge Apartments without "permission" from the school. "permission" will only be granted if all dorms are FULL.
There is nothing "supposed" about the 50-60 number- that was Dean Irish's number- not mine.
And "how nice" of HC to "allow" those "pre-approved" students to still live off-campus. Very magnanimous!
Dean Irish was asked yesterday, "Has the City of Worcester asked HC to restrict the number of students living in the city?" Dean Irish "No:. And OF Course they would not!
PC says "Students First"! HC says "$$$$$$$$$ first"!
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Post by hc89 on Jul 15, 2020 13:00:37 GMT -5
I will add that the University of Pennsylvania's COVID infections model currently predicts a surge / resurgence of cases late summer / fall in all regions of the country, except for New England. For the Northeast other than New England, the model is predicting surges in the suburbs of I-95 cities, south of New York. Most of the models are picking up that the virus is being spread along the Interstate corridors, and once seeded, it then 'metastasizes' locally. And I will add that HC has made the express decision to attempt to "force" its students to live on campus so it can fill up its coffers before allowing its OWN STUDENTS the peace of mind of choosing to live in a potentially safer living environment.
HC will, no doubt, regret this extremely shortsighted decision.
Nova "We are in this together".
HC "Welcome to boot camp...that will be $75,000.00"
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Post by rgs318 on Jul 15, 2020 13:27:50 GMT -5
I am not sure where the bitterness is coming from. I am sorry to hear it, and I do not believe that HC would ignore its OWN STUDENTS for cash (emphasis yours). It is trying to keep the school going and to bring things up to what is needed. Who benefits from that? I believe it is the students. HC has had periods in its past where living on campus was required. Student health and safety seem to be factors in almost every decision the school makes. This is clearly a critical period for the Holy Cross Community. (I also feel it has nothing to do with Villanova or with dueling made up "quotes")
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Post by hc89 on Jul 15, 2020 13:45:39 GMT -5
I am not sure where the bitterness is coming from. I suppose it's coming from a lifetime of love of and support for a school that has been the centerpiece of my entire life and the disappointment that comes with having a family member treated very poorly by said school.
Am I upset? Yes! Is it fully warranted? Who knows?
The quotes from PC and Nova are not "made up" they come directly from websites and communications from those schools.
Here is another one from Santa Clara University sent just today, "we are excited to welcome our students back, whether they will reside on campus, in nearby off-campus housing, or at their permanent residences. Our aim is to preserve as much of our prized community, student support, and Bronco spirit as possible, given the realities of this time." That is a direct quote.
We get none of this from HC. We get this will be "boot camp". Again, a direct quote...from the President of the College!
Trust me, HC's own representative admitted yesterday that the school's "financial models" (direct quote) make it necessary to have full dorms before any student is allowed "permission" to live elsewhere and commute to campus...
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Post by hcpride on Jul 15, 2020 13:48:09 GMT -5
I just snipped one small portion from the website (this does seem a bit much...): All students are required to wear face coverings that completely cover mouth and nose at all times when on and off campus, in both indoor and outdoor spaces. The only times face coverings are not required are when students are (1) in their bedroom/ suite/apartment with only their roommate or suite/apartment mates, (2) eating with adequate physical distancing, or (3) undertaking personal grooming. www.holycross.edu/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-information/student-resources
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Post by hc89 on Jul 15, 2020 13:52:24 GMT -5
I just snipped one small portion from the website (this does seem a bit much...): All students are required to wear face coverings that completely cover mouth and nose at all times when on and off campus, in both indoor and outdoor spaces. The only times face coverings are not required are when students are (1) in their bedroom/ suite/apartment with only their roommate or suite/apartment mates, (2) eating with adequate physical distancing, or (3) undertaking personal grooming. www.holycross.edu/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-information/student-resourcesFor the record, I have NO problem with these types of requirements, nor does my child, or the potential roommates.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jul 15, 2020 13:57:33 GMT -5
I just snipped one small portion from the website (this does seem a bit much...): All students are required to wear face coverings that completely cover mouth and nose at all times when on and off campus, in both indoor and outdoor spaces. The only times face coverings are not required are when students are (1) in their bedroom/ suite/apartment with only their roommate or suite/apartment mates, (2) eating with adequate physical distancing, or (3) undertaking personal grooming. www.holycross.edu/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-information/student-resourcesGoing for a run outside = mask on. Absolutely unnecessary and ridiculous.
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Post by hcpride on Jul 15, 2020 14:01:02 GMT -5
I just snipped one small portion from the website (this does seem a bit much...): All students are required to wear face coverings that completely cover mouth and nose at all times when on and off campus, in both indoor and outdoor spaces. The only times face coverings are not required are when students are (1) in their bedroom/ suite/apartment with only their roommate or suite/apartment mates, (2) eating with adequate physical distancing, or (3) undertaking personal grooming. www.holycross.edu/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-information/student-resourcesGoing for a run outside = mask on. Absolutely unnecessary and ridiculous. Drive off campus to a quarry. Wear a mask. (I assume while driving and while at the quarry). I suppose the general Massachusetts guidance to wear a mask where social distancing is not possible was simply not enough.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 15, 2020 14:04:04 GMT -5
Residence halls are cash cows at nearly all universities/colleges. No fiscally prudent college or university is going to leave empty beds in the residence halls it controls; the financial loss of revenue is too great. That's a fact of life.
(The way for an undergraduate to move off-campus at Harvard is to get married. (A former football player did just that, and, as he now was 'independent', he got a full ride from Harvard, where I believe he was a full pay before.))
I looked at off-campus housing for Villanova. Villanova states that 85 percent of the undergraduates will live on-campus this fall. Living off-campus, at least near Villanova, is limited to certain houses, student occupancy of which is pre-approved by the nearby townships (local government). It appears that demand for off-campus housing is constricted by the supply (which would not be the case in Worcester). So unless you want to live in Upper Darby and commute via the high-speed trolley, there is no ready ability to suddenly decide, as a Villanova student, that I am going to live off-campus fall semester.
I looked at Villanova simply because Villanova is absolutely relying on 100 percent occupancy of its residence halls. The University only very recently finished construction of a massive complex of residence halls on the south side of Lancaster Pike. This complex cost $225 million to build. Villanova is not printing money to pay for this; paying off the financing bonds will depend on full occupancy of this complex. If I was a bondholder, and the President of Villanova was now allowing students to freely switch out of the residence halls and move to off-campus housing, I would go semi-ballistic, wondering if the university is exhibiting sound fiscal stewardship.
Moody's rated the bonds for these Villanova residence halls as A1
Moody's rated HC's bonding in 2019 as Aa3, one grade higher than Villanova's. Providence is rated A2, one grade lower than Villanova. Fairfield is rated A3, one grade above being in sub-prime.
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Post by hcpride on Jul 15, 2020 14:06:02 GMT -5
Residence halls are cash cows at nearly all universities/colleges. No fiscally prudent college or university is going to leave empty beds in the residence halls it controls; the financial loss of revenue is too great. That's a fact of life. Actually, HYP and some other schools just did that.
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Post by hc89 on Jul 15, 2020 14:09:35 GMT -5
Residence halls are cash cows at nearly all universities/colleges. No fiscally prudent college or university is going to leave empty beds in the residence halls it controls; the financial loss of revenue is too great. That's a fact of life. (The way for an undergraduate to move off-campus at Harvard is to get married. (A former football player did just that, and, as he now was 'independent', he got a full ride from Harvard, where I believe he was a full pay before.)) I looked at off-campus housing for Villanova. Villanova states that 85 percent of the undergraduates will live on-campus this fall. Living off-campus, at least near Villanova, is limited to certain houses, student occupancy of which is pre-approved by the nearby townships (local government). It appears that demand for off-campus housing is constricted by the supply (which would not be the case in Worcester). So unless you want to live in Upper Darby and commute via the high-speed trolley, there is no ready ability to suddenly decide, as a Villanova student, that I am going to live off-campus fall semester. I looked at Villanova simply because Villanova is absolutely relying on 100 percent occupancy of its residence halls. The University only very recently finished construction of a massive complex of residence halls on the south side of Lancaster Pike. This complex cost $225 million to build. Villanova is not printing money to pay for this; paying off the financing bonds will depend on full occupancy of this complex. If I was a bondholder, and the President of Villanova was now allowing students to freely switch out of the residence halls and move to off-campus housing, I would go semi-ballistic, wondering if the university is exhibiting sound fiscal stewardship. Moody's rated the bonds for these Villanova residence halls as AI. Moody's rated HC's bonding in 2019 as Aa3, one grade higher than Villanova's. Providence is rated A2, one grade lower than Villanova. Fairfield is rated A3, one grade above being in sub-prime. All lovely. None of this changes the fact that HC is putting its financial interests well before the health and safety of its students. That is just, plain wrong. It is a terrible way to treat your own students.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 15, 2020 14:23:21 GMT -5
Residence halls are cash cows at nearly all universities/colleges. No fiscally prudent college or university is going to leave empty beds in the residence halls it controls; the financial loss of revenue is too great. That's a fact of life. Actually, HYP and some other schools just did that. Their endowments allow for such. Georgetown's does not. Georgetown lost $75 million between March and June 2020, because of COVID. Georgetown is tightening the screws for those students who intend living off-campus if their class year is not resident on-campus. The closest my nephew got to living off-campus at Harvard was to join a Finals Club, the members of which had evening meal together, rather than in a university dining room. They paid extra for this opportunity. Unlike a fraternity, no one gets to live in one of these restricted membership clubs.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Jul 15, 2020 14:30:12 GMT -5
We want HC to be altruistic, but if there's no money coming in, they won't be able to support any of their missions. If they wanted to be so nice to your kids, they'd let them in for free. You paid, I paid, they pay. It's a business. HC (in my opinion) happens to do things with a bit more integrity and mindfulness of the wider world, but if it ran out of money tomorrow, it's operations to educate, serve, and better the planet would stop tomorrow+60 seconds.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 15, 2020 14:43:32 GMT -5
We want HC to be altruistic, but if there's no money coming in, they won't be able to support any of their missions. If they wanted to be so nice to your kids, they'd let them in for free. You paid, I paid, they pay. It's a business. HC (in my opinion) happens to do things with a bit more integrity and mindfulness of the wider world, but if it ran out of money tomorrow, it's operations to educate, serve, and better the planet would stop tomorrow+60 seconds. I believe HC has advised students with a pre-existing condition that poses a heightened risk with respect to COVID that perhaps they would be better off living at home, and taking classes remotely. From reading the student handbook, HC is acutely concerned about COVID infection and spread among students (ranked order>) 1) living off-campus in housing secured by the student; 2.) living off-campus in HC leased housing; 3.) trips off-campus (beyond Worcester and environs) by students who have cars on campus, of which there are a great many, relatively speaking. All three represent potential 'breaks' in the bubble. ______________ Let me add that HC and Worcester sought unsuccessfully to have stringent inspections of the life safety of off-campus housing rented to Holy Cross students, and lost in court. I know that when Fr. B. was at Georgetown, there were two off-campus fires in successive years that killed an undergraduate. After the second, the District of Columbia and the university went and inspected dozens of houses, and many had their certificate of occupancy pulled immediately, with red warning signs plastered on the front door. Students who were living in these had mere hours to remove all their possessions.
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Post by hc89 on Jul 15, 2020 16:16:47 GMT -5
If they wanted to be so nice to your kids, they'd let them in for free. Nobody is asking for anything close to "free"- believe me. We do pay, and plenty. We all recognize how expensive these places are to attend and run. No doubt about it. But "being nice" to your students can take many, many forms. We are in a competitive environment. Why would we not want HC to have a reputation of doing right by its students?
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Post by rgs318 on Jul 15, 2020 16:59:56 GMT -5
HC certainly has a reputation of taking care of foreign students based on how they handled. Last year.
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