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Post by hc2020 on Sept 22, 2020 17:09:52 GMT -5
Clark University just announced yesterday with their latest round of testing zero positive cases. More than safe if students act responsibly. I agree....HC optics not good. I've decided to refrain from second-guessing HC's decision. For one thing it's still only September. Second, there were compelling reasons to go virtual. BTW, I'm also not second-guessing those schools that brought their students back. My goodness, you might have a career in politics, my friend.
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Post by HC92 on Sept 23, 2020 5:29:16 GMT -5
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 23, 2020 5:59:35 GMT -5
The optics surrounding HC being, to my knowledge, the only college in the Worcester area that does not have an open campus is already troubling. If they decide to extend this moratorium into the spring, which would likely include no spring athletics, I suspect the PR will not be very good. To this day, I don’t understand why freshmen and seniors were not permitted on campus this fall. It could have been done with proper planning and a real commitment to work through any potential problems. How old are you? You don't have to answer. I only ask that because you don't seem to have much real word experience in how enterprises are managed. The college did not open on-campus for three main reasons. 1.) Insufficient testing capacity to test 3,000 students twice a week at the start of the fall semester. This required the college to downsize from the planned two students per room to one student per room. The re-open the campus plan was predicated on twice a week testing. 2.) Most of the older residence halls have bathrooms shared by many students. Those residence halls were taken off-line. Loyola which has the most beds, and the highest ratio of rooms to bathrooms of any residence hall, was taken off-line for use as an isolation / quarantine hall. So too few beds on campus. 3.) The city of Worcester prohibited any indoor dining at Holy Cross, other than in student rooms. That edict is being appealed.
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Post by HC92 on Sept 23, 2020 6:11:26 GMT -5
The optics surrounding HC being, to my knowledge, the only college in the Worcester area that does not have an open campus is already troubling. If they decide to extend this moratorium into the spring, which would likely include no spring athletics, I suspect the PR will not be very good. To this day, I don’t understand why freshmen and seniors were not permitted on campus this fall. It could have been done with proper planning and a real commitment to work through any potential problems. How old are you? You don't have to answer. I only ask that because you don't seem to have much real word experience in how enterprises are managed. The college did not open on-campus for three main reasons. 1.) Insufficient testing capacity to test 3,000 students twice a week at the start of the fall semester. This required the college to downsize from the planned two students per room to one student per room. The re-open the campus plan was predicated on twice a week testing. 2.) Most of the older residence halls have bathrooms shared by many students. Those residence halls were taken off-line. Loyola which has the most beds, and the highest ratio of rooms to bathrooms of any residence hall, was taken off-line for use as an isolation / quarantine hall. So too few beds on campus. 3.) The city of Worcester prohibited any indoor dining at Holy Cross, other than in student rooms. That edict is being appealed. I assume other schools face similar challenges but many have found ways to stay open. Is the HC campus uniquely poorly positioned for a Covid plan or have other schools just found a better job finding workable solutions?
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Post by hcpride on Sept 23, 2020 6:16:55 GMT -5
The optics surrounding HC being, to my knowledge, the only college in the Worcester area that does not have an open campus is already troubling. If they decide to extend this moratorium into the spring, which would likely include no spring athletics, I suspect the PR will not be very good. To this day, I don’t understand why freshmen and seniors were not permitted on campus this fall. It could have been done with proper planning and a real commitment to work through any potential problems. How old are you? You don't have to answer. I only ask that because you don't seem to have much real word experience in how enterprises are managed. The college did not open on-campus for three main reasons. 1.) Insufficient testing capacity to test 3,000 students twice a week at the start of the fall semester. This required the college to downsize from the planned two students per room to one student per room. The re-open the campus plan was predicated on twice a week testing. 2.) Most of the older residence halls have bathrooms shared by many students. Those residence halls were taken off-line. Loyola which has the most beds, and the highest ratio of rooms to bathrooms of any residence hall, was taken off-line for use as an isolation / quarantine hall. So too few beds on campus. 3.) The city of Worcester prohibited any indoor dining at Holy Cross, other than in student rooms. That edict is being appealed. To be fair to hc2020 , the optics (especially considering some nearby schools) don't look great and I don't think hc2020 was denying that there were reasons HC did not open its campus. Let's just hope HC can solve its issues and fully open up in the spring. Including sports. (Note: I do realize that the view on optics is not universal. Some, for example, may want all colleges to be fully closed at this time so HC may look stellar.)
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 23, 2020 6:37:36 GMT -5
I personally don’t care a rat’s posterior about the “optics” for Holy Cross, Worcester, the state of Massachusetts, any city or state, the federal government, the CDC, the NIH, any politician on any level.
I care about the people who died of COVID; those who got it and were seriously ill; their families; the medical and first responders who are putting themselves at risk every day and for those who are highly vulnerable due to underlying conditions but need to go out for food, medicine and other essentials but are put needlessly at risk because some think this pandemic is a media-sponsored hoax and refuse to wear a mask and social distance.
But, that’s just my opinion.
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Post by hcpride on Sept 23, 2020 6:52:07 GMT -5
/\ /\ Don't think the college-age kids occasionally socializing and occasionally smooching (both sans masks and sans social distancing BTW) think Covid is a media-sponsored hoax. They just don't think it is a deadly disease for them.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 23, 2020 7:03:02 GMT -5
How old are you? You don't have to answer. I only ask that because you don't seem to have much real word experience in how enterprises are managed. The college did not open on-campus for three main reasons. 1.) Insufficient testing capacity to test 3,000 students twice a week at the start of the fall semester. This required the college to downsize from the planned two students per room to one student per room. The re-open the campus plan was predicated on twice a week testing. 2.) Most of the older residence halls have bathrooms shared by many students. Those residence halls were taken off-line. Loyola which has the most beds, and the highest ratio of rooms to bathrooms of any residence hall, was taken off-line for use as an isolation / quarantine hall. So too few beds on campus. 3.) The city of Worcester prohibited any indoor dining at Holy Cross, other than in student rooms. That edict is being appealed. I assume other schools face similar challenges but many have found ways to stay open. Is the HC campus uniquely poorly positioned for a Covid plan or have other schools just found a better job finding workable solutions? The college's plan was guided by two alums, one is the chancellor of the University of Massachusetts Medical School, the other is the head of global infectious diseases at Tufts Medical Center. And, of course, there is always Dr. Fauci. Dr. Fauci is far too busy to be writing a college's re-opening plan, but the college has hinted there was contact with him, at least with respect to the general approach. Let's be clear. The college was put in the position of the media potentially asking Fauci, its most prominent graduate at the moment, of his assessment of HC's plan if that plan turned out to have epidemiological shortcomings. HC had to be like Caesar's wife. Fauci has consistently stressed the need for frequent testing and contact tracing. BC's testing was sporadic and its contact tracing so inadequate that the Commonwealth of Massachusetts has intervened, and taken over the latter. How embarrassing. Providence College secured the banner headline in the Boston Globe today because of the outbreak there. The bathroom and dining hall issues, in part, revolve around poor ventilation and air circulation. The possibility of contagion in a bathroom shared by 40 students is high, and most epidemiologists would posit that it is unacceptably high. To reduce that risk, one has to test frequently. HC tested over 800 students and staff on Monday and Tuesday. One positive staff test from those tested yesterday, for a total of three. The last student positives were a week ago, for a total of 13 student positives. Of the student positives to date, most were detected in the initial round of tests near the start of the semester. Staff are tested once a week if they potentially have contact with students. <<< The total of 13 students does not include the 21 positive cases from the off-campus party. The grand total of HC student cases is 33 over the past five weeks, nearly four percent of the HC students in Worcester.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 23, 2020 7:13:57 GMT -5
I posted this in the Other Holy Cross sports, subforum, but I will re-post it here.
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Post by gks on Sept 23, 2020 9:01:04 GMT -5
I assume other schools face similar challenges but many have found ways to stay open. Is the HC campus uniquely poorly positioned for a Covid plan or have other schools just found a better job finding workable solutions? The college's plan was guided by two alums, one is the chancellor of the University of Massachusetts Medical School, the other is the head of global infectious diseases at Tufts Medical Center. And, of course, there is always Dr. Fauci. Dr. Fauci is far too busy to be writing a college's re-opening plan, but the college has hinted there was contact with him, at least with respect to the general approach. Let's be clear. The college was put in the position of the media potentially asking Fauci, its most prominent graduate at the moment, of his assessment of HC's plan if that plan turned out to have epidemiological shortcomings. HC had to be like Caesar's wife. Fauci has consistently stressed the need for frequent testing and contact tracing. BC's testing was sporadic and its contact tracing so inadequate that the Commonwealth of Massachusetts has intervened, and taken over the latter. How embarrassing. Providence College secured the banner headline in the Boston Globe today because of the outbreak there. The bathroom and dining hall issues, in part, revolve around poor ventilation and air circulation. The possibility of contagion in a bathroom shared by 40 students is high, and most epidemiologists would posit that it is unacceptably high. To reduce that risk, one has to test frequently. HC tested over 800 students and staff on Monday and Tuesday. One positive staff test from those tested yesterday, for a total of three. The last student positives were a week ago, for a total of 13 student positives. Of the student positives to date, most were detected in the initial round of tests near the start of the semester. Staff are tested once a week if they potentially have contact with students. <<< The total of 13 students does not include the 21 positive cases from the off-campus party. The grand total of HC student cases is 33 over the past five weeks, nearly four percent of the HC students in Worcester. If Clark and WPI in Worcester figured it out......Holy Cross should have been able to.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Sept 23, 2020 10:18:10 GMT -5
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Post by Crucis#1 on Sept 24, 2020 1:08:01 GMT -5
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 24, 2020 5:57:35 GMT -5
The college's plan was guided by two alums, one is the chancellor of the University of Massachusetts Medical School, the other is the head of global infectious diseases at Tufts Medical Center. And, of course, there is always Dr. Fauci. Dr. Fauci is far too busy to be writing a college's re-opening plan, but the college has hinted there was contact with him, at least with respect to the general approach. Let's be clear. The college was put in the position of the media potentially asking Fauci, its most prominent graduate at the moment, of his assessment of HC's plan if that plan turned out to have epidemiological shortcomings. HC had to be like Caesar's wife. Fauci has consistently stressed the need for frequent testing and contact tracing. BC's testing was sporadic and its contact tracing so inadequate that the Commonwealth of Massachusetts has intervened, and taken over the latter. How embarrassing. Providence College secured the banner headline in the Boston Globe today because of the outbreak there. The bathroom and dining hall issues, in part, revolve around poor ventilation and air circulation. The possibility of contagion in a bathroom shared by 40 students is high, and most epidemiologists would posit that it is unacceptably high. To reduce that risk, one has to test frequently. HC tested over 800 students and staff on Monday and Tuesday. One positive staff test from those tested yesterday, for a total of three. The last student positives were a week ago, for a total of 13 student positives. Of the student positives to date, most were detected in the initial round of tests near the start of the semester. Staff are tested once a week if they potentially have contact with students. <<< The total of 13 students does not include the 21 positive cases from the off-campus party. The grand total of HC student cases is 33 over the past five weeks, nearly four percent of the HC students in Worcester. If Clark and WPI in Worcester figured it out......Holy Cross should have been able to. Did you go to Holy Cross? I ask that pointedly because if you did, you are familiar with dining arrangements at the college. And based on that familiarity, when the Board of Health prohibits indoor dining at Holy Cross, what would be your plan for providing meals for 2400 resident students, and where would students eat these meals? If you didn't go to HC, then you need not answer.
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Post by gks on Sept 24, 2020 8:29:04 GMT -5
If Clark and WPI in Worcester figured it out......Holy Cross should have been able to. Did you go to Holy Cross? I ask that pointedly because if you did, you are familiar with dining arrangements at the college. And based on that familiarity, when the Board of Health prohibits indoor dining at Holy Cross, what would be your plan for providing meals for 2400 resident students, and where would students eat these meals? If you didn't go to HC, then you need not answer. No I did not but I have been on the campus hundreds of times and am familiar with the dining set up. There are ways to do it. Grab and go. Limit numbers at a time. Set up tents. IMO HC didn't want to do the work.
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Post by lou on Sept 24, 2020 8:55:57 GMT -5
May not be as easy as it sounds, Bucknell kids complaining about not enough food during the day
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Post by gks on Sept 24, 2020 12:59:39 GMT -5
May not be as easy as it sounds, Bucknell kids complaining about not enough food during the day Never said it was easy and yes I know a kid at Bucknell and have heard the same. At least they're trying....
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 24, 2020 14:03:09 GMT -5
Did you go to Holy Cross? I ask that pointedly because if you did, you are familiar with dining arrangements at the college. And based on that familiarity, when the Board of Health prohibits indoor dining at Holy Cross, what would be your plan for providing meals for 2400 resident students, and where would students eat these meals? If you didn't go to HC, then you need not answer. No I did not but I have been on the campus hundreds of times and am familiar with the dining set up. There are ways to do it. Grab and go. Limit numbers at a time. Set up tents. IMO HC didn't want to do the work. HC has grab and go. HC has tents. Though come November, eating outside under a tent is likely to generate lots of gripes by students. Limit numbers. Ok. Allow ten students per minute at the food stations to grab and go and exit. That's 600 students per hour. For 2400 students, that means four hours per meal service. I suppose its feasible if breakfast is 6AM-10AM; lunch is 11AM-3PM; dinner is 4 PM-8PM. And students can readily secure reservation slots within these time periods that do not conflict with classes, or practices. I did take OR courses in a graduate program, but the above is quite superficial and quick. Perhaps, you can describe a better optimization. Did you go to WPI perchance, and take an OR course? E.g., MA 4237. PROBABILISTIC METHODS IN OPERATIONS RESEARCH., or OIE 552 Modeling and Optimizing Processes.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Sept 24, 2020 14:19:03 GMT -5
If gks has been on the HC campus hundreds of times and is at all familiar with HC he would know that it is not the kind of place where a difficult decision is made because the school "didn't want to do the work." His comments seem like a lot of fatuous brick-throwing to me.
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Post by hc2020 on Sept 24, 2020 15:52:15 GMT -5
According to the CDC as of September 24, 2020, of the 188,051 reported COVID-19 deaths in the US, 353 were school-aged individuals between 15-24 years old. That’s a death rate of 0.18%.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Sept 24, 2020 16:55:56 GMT -5
For Colleges with a decentralized dining service it is easier to implement grab and go. For example at Yale, each of the 14 residential colleges has a dining option within each residence. At NYU, with students spread out in Manhattan, the university provides 16 dining options, which can accommodate grab and go.
At schools such as HC, with a centralized dining service, such as Kimball Dining, grab and go is a logistical stretch to have everyone accommodated in a reasonable time frame for each meal service and plan. Thus adding to our Dilemma within a pandemic.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Sept 24, 2020 17:06:16 GMT -5
Between the dining area in the science building, Crossroads and Cool Beans in Hogan, and Kimball (upper and lower), there was a way for HC to make it work. May have required some work and ingenuity. Dinner service, at least when I was at HC, was only available at Crossroads and upper Kimball -- perhaps if all dining locations served dinner, then there could be a way to safely accommodate the students. Also, I remember when I was at HC, often times the tables at the far left of upper Kimball were totally empty.
Whatever. What's done is done.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Sept 24, 2020 17:25:09 GMT -5
If it is necessary to decentralize dining going forward, another option would be deployed food trucks with meals already prepared in advance. Just like in a hospital setting, where a patient calls to the kitchen with their choices, an app can be created that provides menu options that can be selected in advance of pickup. The food would be available at a selected time from specific trucks located throughout the campus. This would alleviate long lines, and allow for social distance in an outdoor setting.
All bets would be off when a blizzard visits Worcester during the second semester. Then the IPF at Luth, the Jo, and Upper Kimball and the Hogan Ballroom, would be used for these circumstances for a limited period until the weather crisis concludes.
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Post by HC16 on Sept 24, 2020 17:56:17 GMT -5
If it is necessary to decentralize dining going forward, another option would be deployed food trucks with meals already prepared in advance. Just like in a hospital setting, where a patient calls to the kitchen with their choices, an app can be created that provides menu options that can be selected in advance of pickup. The food would be available at a selected time from specific trucks located throughout the campus. This would alleviate long lines, and allow for social distance in an outdoor setting. All bets would be off when a blizzard visits Worcester during the second semester. Then the IPF at Luth, the Jo, and Upper Kimball and the Hogan Ballroom, would be used for these circumstances for a limited period until the weather crisis concludes. This existed when I was at school (Tapingo!) for all locations except upper Kimball. It didn't reduce lines, you just had more people standing around for longer waiting for their order. I don't know if they still use Tapingo, but I doubt it just went away without a replacement.
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Post by hcpride on Sept 24, 2020 18:29:57 GMT -5
Well, my high school right now serves lunches by doing a phased 2 hour (4-period) lunch, spacing out the food line, no more salad bar or complicated deli orders so the line zips along (many wraps are premade, salads are premade, drinks are bottled, etc), masks (we’re in them 7 hours or so a day) of course while in line, and then the kids carry their trays/drinks to relatively spread out areas and eat (lobby, gym, cafeteria, library, etc) in a socially distanced fashion.
Don’t see why a thoughtful college couldn’t do something along those lines for each meal... even a college with one Kimball and limited alternate food locations
FWIW the 7-8th grade are full time in class, 9-12 are every other day.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Sept 24, 2020 19:00:20 GMT -5
Well, my high school right now serves lunches by doing a phased 2 hour (4-period) lunch, spacing out the food line, no more salad bar or complicated deli orders so the line zips along (many wraps are premade, salads are premade, drinks are bottled, etc), masks (we’re in them 7 hours or so a day) of course while in line, and then the kids carry their trays/drinks to relatively spread out areas and eat (lobby, gym, cafeteria, library, etc) in a socially distanced fashion. Don’t see why a thoughtful college couldn’t do something along those lines for each meal... even a college with one Kimball and limited alternate food locations FWIW the 7-8th grade are full time in class, 9-12 are every other day. If Fr. B resigned last year, maybe HC would be in session.
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