Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 10:09:48 GMT -5
You could always walk on and if doesn't materialize, drop out. In all honesty, I would rather be working on a vocation than attending HC with no football in the fall. I don't think people on this board understand how important the major sports are to the overall experience at HC. For the players themselves or the overall student body? Both? From afar, it seems that HC students are nowhere as "into" the football or hoop teams as they were in the 1960s, 70s and 80s. Multiple reasons for this it seems: coed since '72, a lot of student-athletes at HC in the PL-era are "into" their own sport but not attending others, seems like the student demographics have shifted somewhat in the last 25 or so years i.e. students that are non-varsity athletes at HC aren't into following sports as much as they were 30, 40 years ago etc etc Could be all wet on this but this is what I've observed at Fitton and Hart for the last 25 years or so mostly. I agree with you on your observations with the student body, but was mainly addressing student athletes. I think you would have close to 90-95%% turnover with student athletes in basketball, football, baseball, and ice hockey.
|
|
|
Post by timholycross on Jul 31, 2020 19:25:24 GMT -5
Someone who's a senior in 2020-21 might get screwed out of playing again. Has the school taken a position on scholarship athletes being able to come back?
At least those people have the grad transfer option in 2021-22.
|
|
|
Post by nycrusader2010 on Aug 1, 2020 9:55:59 GMT -5
Someone who's a senior in 2020-21 might get screwed out of playing again. Has the school taken a position on scholarship athletes being able to come back? At least those people have the grad transfer option in 2021-22. Assuming that the timing of cancelling a spring season would be done before second semester enrollment, senior football players would have following options: 1) Un-enroll for spring 2021 and play their last semester in the fall. 2) Add a double major or minor so as to extend their academic career and scholarship for a ninth semester. 3) Graduate on time and utilize final semester of eligibility while in grad school somewhere else. Must be nearly impossible right now for coaches to know how many scholarships they'll have available for next year...
|
|
|
Post by lou on Aug 3, 2020 8:09:01 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Aug 3, 2020 10:05:55 GMT -5
Someone who's a senior in 2020-21 might get screwed out of playing again. Has the school taken a position on scholarship athletes being able to come back? At least those people have the grad transfer option in 2021-22. Assuming that the timing of cancelling a spring season would be done before second semester enrollment, senior football players would have following options: 1) Un-enroll for spring 2021 and play their last semester in the fall. 2) Add a double major or minor so as to extend their academic career and scholarship for a ninth semester. 3) Graduate on time and utilize final semester of eligibility while in grad school somewhere else. Must be nearly impossible right now for coaches to know how many scholarships they'll have available for next year... It would be nice if HC would work with the football kids now to make option 2 a real possibility (if spring is toast too) . I don't see the Ivies doing it given their long-standing rules (FWIW) but we do have a medical redshirt in the PL so we might be more liberal in introducing this sort of thing. I certainly agree with you regarding your last line. Given our current rules, I guess the football staff are going with the presumption our seniors are gone next year.
|
|
|
Post by Sons of Vaval on Aug 3, 2020 10:08:18 GMT -5
That’s one way to spin it. These football players are using the coronavirus as a springboard to tackle many other issues. In the list of demands, there are only three points related to the virus.
|
|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Aug 3, 2020 10:35:50 GMT -5
Insanity demonstrated once again
|
|
|
Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Aug 3, 2020 10:39:36 GMT -5
Insanity. Unions don't attempt to strong-arm municipalities this much.
Hope the schools call their bluff, but unlikely to be an issue since I won't believe there will be a season until I see a kickoff.
|
|
|
Post by WCHC Sports on Aug 3, 2020 10:54:25 GMT -5
Students who probably couldn't get into a university otherwise, saying that their demographics are being disproportionately compensated (going to school, usually for "FREE")... probably spitting into the wind here.
I will say that there is no reason why the NCAA needs to exist or hold rights over any college in any sport. The leagues themselves can have their own championships or TV deals or sponsorship deals or revenue deals with the paying parties. Yes, it can mean that the big time schools get away with more, and marginalize the smaller schools as far as athletics are concerned, but that's happening pretty much year in and year out at this point.
|
|
|
Post by purplehaze on Aug 3, 2020 11:24:40 GMT -5
They’re acting like they’re pro athletes- I suggest the players withdraw from school and open their own league - they’ll draw hundreds in high school facilities Keep in mind these P5 athletes receive a monthly stipend in addition . to their full scholarship- called ‘cost of attendance’ compensation
|
|
|
Post by hc87 on Aug 3, 2020 11:39:44 GMT -5
While not a big fan of "where" we are in the D1 basketball landscape today, I am somewhat pleased we aren't part of the FBS world of $8MM/yr paid head coaches, $800,000/yr strength coaches and God knows how many other ridiculous perks etc. The $$$ at the Power 5 football conferences has nearly completed corrupted the concept of "college football" today.
Like a lot of things in our lives, I think this pandemic will have a long-lasting effect (for both bettah and worse) on college football moving forward...I can envision some sort of "professional minor league" for football coming about in the not too distant future.
I think both FBS/FCS/D1 football and a minor league could coexist and bring back some sort of normalcy to college athletics.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Aug 3, 2020 17:27:55 GMT -5
While not a big fan of "where" we are in the D1 basketball landscape today, I am somewhat pleased we aren't part of the FBS world of $8MM/yr paid head coaches, $800,000/yr strength coaches and God knows how many other ridiculous perks etc. The $$$ at the Power 5 football conferences has nearly completed corrupted the concept of "college football" today. Like a lot of things in our lives, I think this pandemic will have a long-lasting effect (for both bettah and worse) on college football moving forward...I can envision some sort of "professional minor league" for football coming about in the not too distant future. I think both FBS/FCS/D1 football and a minor league could coexist and bring back some sort of normalcy to college athletics. The CFL works and has stood the test of time. NFL Europe and the other failed U.S. "minor league" football efforts haven't. The 32 team NFL is a hard product to compete against. I had the good fortune to hear Ray Charles and his orchestra live in the 1970s. Afterwards the group I was with stopped at a lounge for a nightcap. The house band were all experienced musicians and I knew they were members of the musicians union local because my buddy was in politics and had to hire only union members for any events. The drop off in quality of music was so great we all left because we didn't want to spoil the vibe from Ray Charles. I think of that comparison when watching the latest WWE inspired knock off football league. But I agree Covid will prompt a reassessment of many things.
|
|
|
Post by nycrusader2010 on Aug 3, 2020 18:44:12 GMT -5
While not a big fan of "where" we are in the D1 basketball landscape today, I am somewhat pleased we aren't part of the FBS world of $8MM/yr paid head coaches, $800,000/yr strength coaches and God knows how many other ridiculous perks etc. The $$$ at the Power 5 football conferences has nearly completed corrupted the concept of "college football" today. Like a lot of things in our lives, I think this pandemic will have a long-lasting effect (for both bettah and worse) on college football moving forward...I can envision some sort of "professional minor league" for football coming about in the not too distant future. I think both FBS/FCS/D1 football and a minor league could coexist and bring back some sort of normalcy to college athletics.I think that you are wrong here. Typically you're spot on with a lot of analysis but I think we've seen the "minor league football" movie a half-dozen or so too many times. There simply ISN'T a market for minor league football in the US. And the CFL to my knowledge has never tapped the market of trying to draft American high school players. They have rules mandating a certain % of Canadian-born players that would make this difficult anyway. The real irony of major-college football players trying to unionize is that the reason none of them are seeing their market value in compensation is because another powerful labor union is restricting the supply of labor in the market. And that union would be called the NFL Players Association which restricts the labor supply by way of an age limit. The NFL age limit is beyond ridiculous -- running backs ,whose careers for the most part begin to sputter out at age 30, have to labor for FREE for three years in college to a productive seven or so years as a pro, and that's if they're lucky. There is absolutely no reason why the likes of Ezekiel Elliott or Saiquon Barkley shouldn't have been in the NFL, and winning starting jobs, at 19 years old. And longer careers for star players would be a great thing for fans of the NFL!
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Aug 3, 2020 19:20:56 GMT -5
I am not sure that college scholarship players getting full tuition, room and board are laboring for "free" by any means.
|
|
|
Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Aug 3, 2020 19:45:04 GMT -5
To echo Rob's point -sorry nycru- but what do you call getting a quarter of a million dollar education in return for playing a sport?
Want to pay the players? Fine. Eliminate scholarships and let them pay their own freight.
|
|
|
Post by nycrusader2010 on Aug 3, 2020 21:16:36 GMT -5
To echo Rob's point -sorry nycru- but what do you call getting a quarter of a million dollar education in return for playing a sport? Want to pay the players? Fine. Eliminate scholarships and let them pay their own freight. I AGREE that players should NOT be paid to play college football. Scholarships, and the added value of a college education and degree, ABSOLUTELY are compensation. I DO think the National Football League should give the most elite high school talent the opportunity to immediately play as a professional. A full ride + FCOA at Penn State is a heist for 99.9% of all student-athletes -- but for a guy like 19-year old Saiquon Barkley, it would be considered below market value when you consider how much he would've been paid in a rookie contract if drafted into the NFL out of high school. And again, I don't think he should've been paid to play college football. He should've been allowed to get paid to play pro ball right away -- if he so chose..
|
|
|
Post by bfoley82 on Aug 4, 2020 1:24:49 GMT -5
To echo Rob's point -sorry nycru- but what do you call getting a quarter of a million dollar education in return for playing a sport? Want to pay the players? Fine. Eliminate scholarships and let them pay their own freight. I AGREE that players should NOT be paid to play college football. Scholarships, and the added value of a college education and degree, ABSOLUTELY are compensation. I DO think the National Football League should give the most elite high school talent the opportunity to immediately play as a professional. A full ride + FCOA at Penn State is a heist for 99.9% of all student-athletes -- but for a guy like 19-year old Saiquon Barkley, it would be considered below market value when you consider how much he would've been paid in a rookie contract if drafted into the NFL out of high school. And again, I don't think he should've been paid to play college football. He should've been allowed to get paid to play pro ball right away -- if he so chose.. Barkley was only a four star recruit in high school so the expectation of him being able to jump right into the NFL at 18 is ludicrous.
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Aug 4, 2020 5:33:44 GMT -5
True, and (as happened with some NBA players who did that) the result of that choice could be a personal disaster. However, to have the "opportunity" to make that choice can be important. I would hope that calmer heads would prevail so that a teenager (no matter how talented) would not lose everything in his future by getting crushed by older and more experienced pros.
|
|
|
Post by nycrusader2010 on Aug 4, 2020 6:07:08 GMT -5
I AGREE that players should NOT be paid to play college football. Scholarships, and the added value of a college education and degree, ABSOLUTELY are compensation. I DO think the National Football League should give the most elite high school talent the opportunity to immediately play as a professional. A full ride + FCOA at Penn State is a heist for 99.9% of all student-athletes -- but for a guy like 19-year old Saiquon Barkley, it would be considered below market value when you consider how much he would've been paid in a rookie contract if drafted into the NFL out of high school. And again, I don't think he should've been paid to play college football. He should've been allowed to get paid to play pro ball right away -- if he so chose.. Barkley was only a four star recruit in high school so the expectation of him being able to jump right into the NFL at 18 is ludicrous. I dont follow HS recruiting like that, was just throwing out an example. But certainly the top 10-15 recruits out if HS would get drafted in a free labor market. Or how about this. Barkley was a pretty darn solid physical specimen as a soph and jr at penn state. Pretty sure he would've had no problem making an NFL team by then.
|
|
|
Post by timholycross on Aug 4, 2020 7:27:48 GMT -5
Insanity. Unions don't attempt to strong-arm municipalities this much. Hope the schools call their bluff, but unlikely to be an issue since I won't believe there will be a season until I see a kickoff. It's where we are as a country now, trying to use this crisis to solve everything. Look at all the things that people (from both sides) are trying to cram in these stimulus packages. The odds on these colleges caving in on most of this stuff, even if they eventually should, is slim and none.
|
|
|
Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Aug 4, 2020 14:35:48 GMT -5
To echo Rob's point -sorry nycru- but what do you call getting a quarter of a million dollar education in return for playing a sport? Want to pay the players? Fine. Eliminate scholarships and let them pay their own freight. I AGREE that players should NOT be paid to play college football. Scholarships, and the added value of a college education and degree, ABSOLUTELY are compensation. I DO think the National Football League should give the most elite high school talent the opportunity to immediately play as a professional. A full ride + FCOA at Penn State is a heist for 99.9% of all student-athletes -- but for a guy like 19-year old Saiquon Barkley, it would be considered below market value when you consider how much he would've been paid in a rookie contract if drafted into the NFL out of high school. And again, I don't think he should've been paid to play college football. He should've been allowed to get paid to play pro ball right away -- if he so chose.. You stated in your earlier post that players "have to labor (work) for free (before they can be draft eligible)". Scholarship athletes receiving expensive educations in return do not. My sister essentially sent her entire yearly salary to HC the last four years for my neice's tuition and board. Parents like her who value the education and opportunities a school of HC's ilk provide for their children, and have to pay sticker price, are the ones who "labor" for free.
|
|
|
Post by nycrusader2010 on Aug 4, 2020 15:31:33 GMT -5
I AGREE that players should NOT be paid to play college football. Scholarships, and the added value of a college education and degree, ABSOLUTELY are compensation. I DO think the National Football League should give the most elite high school talent the opportunity to immediately play as a professional. A full ride + FCOA at Penn State is a heist for 99.9% of all student-athletes -- but for a guy like 19-year old Saiquon Barkley, it would be considered below market value when you consider how much he would've been paid in a rookie contract if drafted into the NFL out of high school. And again, I don't think he should've been paid to play college football. He should've been allowed to get paid to play pro ball right away -- if he so chose.. You stated in your earlier post that players "have to labor (work) for free (before they can be draft eligible)". Scholarship athletes receiving expensive educations in return do not. My sister essentially sent her entire yearly salary to HC the last four years for my neice's tuition and board. Parents like her who value the education and opportunities a school of HC's ilk provide for their children, and have to pay sticker price, are the ones who "labor" for free. My use and emphasis of the word free in that first post is indeed inaccurate as you pointed out. However, my main point remains the same. TOP college football players are forced to play for 3 years for far below market value. Its not and shouldn't be the NCAA's or colleges' problem to have to rectify this.
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Aug 6, 2020 19:38:41 GMT -5
It is sad when professionals are treated as amateurs and their chance to become multi-millionaires is delayed in this way. All they may get for the time is a free education worth hundreds of thousands of dollars and a degree that they can benefit from for the rest of their lives...but I won't be shedding any tears over their hardships. Let them go pro whenever they want...and get them the heck out of amateur athletics.
|
|
|
Post by timholycross on Aug 8, 2020 9:51:13 GMT -5
MAC is dun. Might play in the spring. That cancels BC's supposed opener.
|
|
|
Post by hc87 on Aug 8, 2020 10:43:47 GMT -5
Yeah, just saw that on twitter....bad pun but it's starting to spread into the FBS conferences now....I doubt any college football is played this Fall.
|
|