|
Post by longsuffering on Sept 27, 2020 15:42:46 GMT -5
Might I suggest at least a temporary moratorium on stating the 3-29 record. It is what it is...and that is in the past. Posting it over and over seems not to serve much of a purpose. OK, I'll hint at it opaquely when necessary 😉
|
|
|
Post by hceconhist on Sept 27, 2020 22:52:36 GMT -5
To me, the real stunner was the departure of Joe Pridgen for a school and basketball program, far from home, that I don't see as a step up in any way. Iirc, In the Jen Toland article Joe said he fit in with the athletes at HC but not socially with the HC student body whereas he does fit in at UNC Wilmington. He said UNC Wilmington is where he can grow as a basketball player and person and he sees it as a step up basketball wise even if we don't. It's not a compliment to HC in any way. And it's not sour grapes because Joe led the team in points, shooting percentage, rebounding and was both PL and ECAC rookie of the year. It's also puzzling because he spent four years at two MA prep schools where the student body shouldn't be radically different from HC, but he also said when he signed at HC he thought he probably wouldn't stay four years, which opens the door a crack for the Carmody bashers to slither through.😊 I did not realize he talked to Jennifer Toland for an article. I am not surprised Carmody brought in players who did not see themselves staying at HC for their four years; I would not be surprised if Lowder had the same perspective. That tells you just how desperate Carmody was for talent towards the end of his time here.
|
|
|
Post by Tom on Sept 28, 2020 8:14:03 GMT -5
Two totally disconnected points on stuff earlier in the thread:
- No matter what last year's record was, freshmen are going to need some sort of senior leadership from Austin and Matt, if for no other reason than helping them adjust to life at an academic first college and the time management skills to balance academics, D-I sports, and some sort of life
- Lowder, Copeland, Yeutter, Pridgen, Hargis, Lovisolo, Verbeek, Niego, and Sandy equals 9. I forget portal timing, but Green and Grandison signed on at their new schools after Coach Nelson was hired. Probably not fair to count them as leaving on Coach Nelson's watch, but technically they did. That makes 11
-----
Oh ya, #3 - I thought Coulibaly's issue had nothing to do with remote vs hybrid vs in-person education. I thought he was just a victim of current international travel policies
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on Sept 28, 2020 8:31:37 GMT -5
I believe that Copeland is still at HC though he is not playing
|
|
|
Post by Tom on Sept 28, 2020 8:49:12 GMT -5
I believe that Copeland is still at HC though he is not playing I believe you are correct. Based on his career at HC, his departure from the team MAY be health related and nothing to do with Coach Nelson. I'm not commenting about the role Coach Nelson played, if any in the departures. Heck, from the Toland article, Pridgen had one foot out the door before either he or Coach Nelson set foot on campus. Merely stating that from the day Coach Nelson was hired either 9 or 11 people left the program depending if leaving the program is defined as entering the portal or enrolling someplace else. Even 9 counts as close to double digits
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on Sept 28, 2020 9:06:10 GMT -5
If Pridgen really planned to leave before he started he must have either had a much higher estimation of his abilities than almost all college coaches or he was very prescient. Or that was a lot of BS.
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Sept 28, 2020 9:26:24 GMT -5
I can confirm from direct communication with Kyle that he remains a student at Holy Cross and his decision to leave the team was health related [He didn't specify if the thought of playing for Nelson made him ill! ]. I did not ask nor did he volunteer whether he remains on athletic scholarship.
|
|
|
Post by trimster on Sept 28, 2020 9:40:49 GMT -5
I can confirm from direct communication with Kyle that he remains a student at Holy Cross and his decision to leave the team was health related [He didn't specify if the thought of playing for Nelson made him ill! ]. I did not ask nor did he volunteer whether he remains on athletic scholarship. Very happy to hear that KC is continuing to work towards his degree from Holy Cross.
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Sept 28, 2020 10:31:53 GMT -5
Actually, I just re-read the email I got from Kyle back 3 weeks ago. My memory isn't what it once was!:
"In regards to my plans we discussed previously...the school is still honoring my athletic scholarship for my senior year even though I will not be a part of the basketball program." [emphasis mine]
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on Sept 28, 2020 10:42:18 GMT -5
Very admirable
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Sept 28, 2020 17:42:18 GMT -5
Pleased to learn this because it wouldn't be very attractive for Holy Cross to gain the ills of a basketball factory (not honoring the scholarship) without any of the benefits. It also verifies at least one of the departed was not run off to be replaced by someone the coach felt was more talented.
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on Sept 28, 2020 18:11:07 GMT -5
I can confirm from direct communication with Kyle that he remains a student at Holy Cross and his decision to leave the team was health related [He didn't specify if the thought of playing for Nelson made him ill! ]. I did not ask nor did he volunteer whether he remains on athletic scholarship. Like your info and the new avatar Wonder if HC had another alum who graced the cover of Time ?
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on Sept 28, 2020 18:14:46 GMT -5
Pleased to learn this because it wouldn't be very attractive for Holy Cross to gain the ills of a basketball factory (not honoring the scholarship) without any of the benefits. It also verifies at least one of the departed was not run off to be replaced by someone the coach felt was more talented. No one was run off. That is a remark that can damage a reputation.
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Sept 28, 2020 18:20:47 GMT -5
Had exactly the same thought and guessing Clarence Thomas made the cover during his confirmation process.
|
|
|
Post by hceconhist on Sept 28, 2020 19:22:10 GMT -5
Pleased to learn this because it wouldn't be very attractive for Holy Cross to gain the ills of a basketball factory (not honoring the scholarship) without any of the benefits. It also verifies at least one of the departed was not run off to be replaced by someone the coach felt was more talented. No one was run off. That is a remark that can damage a reputation. Respectfully, some of us on this board have heard differently. It's also not unprecedented in modern HC basketball history. The Last Amateurs documents Willard cutting incoming SENIORS going into his first season. I would also argue the opposite your last claim. In today's landscape, it is worse for a coach's reputation to have 2/3 of a team quit on him rather than run them off.
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Sept 28, 2020 19:30:01 GMT -5
Since no one had 2/3rds of a team quit (on Coach Nelson or anyone else), that is not a problem.
As to rumors, I understand that they are not to be passed on here. I am sure there are stories circulating that tell interesting versions of what happened.
|
|
|
Post by hceconhist on Sept 28, 2020 19:37:30 GMT -5
Since no one had 2/3rds of a team quit (on Coach Nelson or anyone else), that is not a problem. As to rumors, I understand that they are not to be passed on here. I am sure there are stories circulating that tell interesting versions of what happened. Having around 8 or 9 players leave is close to 2/3 of a team. Also, I did not discuss any rumors. I simply asserted that some of us have heard different to what was claimed. That should be fair game.
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on Sept 28, 2020 19:40:44 GMT -5
Since no one had 2/3rds of a team quit (on Coach Nelson or anyone else), that is not a problem. As to rumors, I understand that they are not to be passed on here. I am sure there are stories circulating that tell interesting versions of what happened. Having around 8 or 9 players leave is close to 2/3 of a team. Also, I did not discuss any rumors. I simply asserted that some of us have heard different to what was claimed. That should be fair game. Can you define “rumor” ? ”some of us have heard “ ??
|
|
|
Post by hceconhist on Sept 28, 2020 19:55:02 GMT -5
Having around 8 or 9 players leave is close to 2/3 of a team. Also, I did not discuss any rumors. I simply asserted that some of us have heard different to what was claimed. That should be fair game. Can you define “rumor” ? ”some of us have heard “ ?? I am pretty sure we all know what a rumor is. If you are asking me what "some of us have heard" means, it means exactly what you would think. You clearly have your sources, and I have mine. I will repeat: this is not unprecedented at Holy Cross. Page 160, The Last Amateurs:"Willard did cut a couple of walk-ons and he cut Malik Waters, who had come back the previous season from major knee surgery but simply didn't have the quickness Willard though imperative to contribute to his system. Stowers was so busy with his schoolwork that he didn't really have a chance to brood about not being a basketball player anymore. Waters did. He sat around the dorm in his practice gear for days, clearly adrift and devastated."
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Sept 28, 2020 19:55:48 GMT -5
Since no one had 2/3rds of a team quit (on Coach Nelson or anyone else), that is not a problem. As to rumors, I understand that they are not to be passed on here. I am sure there are stories circulating that tell interesting versions of what happened. Having around 8 or 9 players leave is close to 2/3 of a team. Also, I did not discuss any rumors. I simply asserted that some of us have heard different to what was claimed. That should be fair game. Fair enough." Close to" 2/3 is not 2/3 unless it fits a prior bias. That is a bit like saying we lost double figures of our players when we did not. Aren't things difficult enough without some stating fiction as fact to try to prove a point? (...even if it is "almost" true?) Stating that one "heard" something different than what was posted sounds like a rumor brewing, but - to be fair - you never did state what was said. My apologies.
|
|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 28, 2020 20:03:37 GMT -5
Had exactly the same thought and guessing Clarence Thomas made the cover during his confirmation process. Phillip Berrigan was on the cover of Time with his brother Daniel. joe califano was on the cover in 1978 i will have to check for timothy leary- attended hc but not an alum
|
|
|
Post by Crucis#1 on Sept 28, 2020 20:10:09 GMT -5
Had exactly the same thought and guessing Clarence Thomas made the cover during his confirmation process. October 21, 1991, Clarence Thomas shared the cover of Time Magazine. Also, October 1, 2018. Edward Bennett Williams was on the cover of Sports Illustrated with Otto Graham, 7-25-66.
|
|
|
Post by hceconhist on Sept 28, 2020 20:20:00 GMT -5
Having around 8 or 9 players leave is close to 2/3 of a team. Also, I did not discuss any rumors. I simply asserted that some of us have heard different to what was claimed. That should be fair game. Fair enough." Close to" 2/3 is not 2/3 unless it fits a prior bias bias. That is a bit like saying we lost double figures of our players when we did not. Aren't things difficult enough without some stating fiction as fact to try to prove a point? (...even if it is "almost" true?) Stating that one "heard" something different than what was posted sounds like a rumor brewing, but - to be fair - you never did state what was said. My apologies. That is fair. I will change to this, "It may be worse for a coach's reputation to have several players quit in a very short time period than simply run players off the team that he feels are insufficiently talented."
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Sept 28, 2020 21:23:17 GMT -5
Had exactly the same thought and guessing Clarence Thomas made the cover during his confirmation process. Phillip Berrigan was on the cover of Time with his brother Daniel. joe califano was on the cover in 1978 i will have to check for timothy leary- attended hc but not an alum If you have access to a list of cover appearances, perhaps check if U.S. Senator David I. Walsh, D-MA ever made it in the years leading up to WW2. He was a graduate of Holy Cross in the 1890s and was chairman of the powerful Naval Affairs committee before and during the war and a major thorn in the side of FDR because Walsh was an isolationist and head of the "America First Committee" right up until the bombs dropped on Pearl Harbor, and FDR was in favor of supporting England and the allies against Hitler before the US entered the war. So Walsh was a key figure in a major political story of the day and might have made the cover of Time.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Sept 28, 2020 21:40:01 GMT -5
Fair enough." Close to" 2/3 is not 2/3 unless it fits a prior bias bias. That is a bit like saying we lost double figures of our players when we did not. Aren't things difficult enough without some stating fiction as fact to try to prove a point? (...even if it is "almost" true?) Stating that one "heard" something different than what was posted sounds like a rumor brewing, but - to be fair - you never did state what was said. My apologies. That is fair. I will change to this, "It may be worse for a coach's reputation to have several players quit in a very short time period than simply run players off the team that he feels are insufficiently talented." How about this: "I overheard a rumor...but someone coughed in the middle of it so I can't be sure it's about you."
|
|