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Post by WCHC Sports on Sept 8, 2020 8:47:32 GMT -5
It is interesting we all had fun evoking Soviet style excesses when the on campus RA function is tried, true and well established across Academia and I think RA's must have a commitment to "See something, say something" as opposed to "Snitches get stitches." The "R" in "RA" stands for Resident or Residence. If a student is living off-campus, they are not a "resident," in my opinion. Much like when we were on Christmas break and I'd sneak into a bar, or party long and loud into the night, Holy Cross had no right to have students report on my behavior (or write me up, or break the party up in my backyard), I don't see how they have grounds to do anything in a disciplinary fashion here. The College chose for whatever reasons to not have students attend on campus. So again in my opinion, they gave up the rights to govern what students are doing on their own times, on their own private property, outside of the educational experience (virtual classes, exams, reports, etc.).
Now, if a student is not allowed on campus unless they take a COVID test, sign an affidavit, waiver, or other restrictions related to personal behavior, then I swing back the other way. The College has a right to protect the students, faculty, and staff who are on campus and under some reasonable responsibility/care of the school. But if a student is staying off campus, whether it's down the street, or out in California somewhere, no restrictions, no narc-ing.
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Post by Tom on Sept 8, 2020 9:39:46 GMT -5
Isn't that what's happening now?
Kids with access to campus have signed an agreement that says they will follow the state guidelines, and breach of those guidelines will result in penalties. I don't think anything can or will happen to people with no access to campus because they probably didn't sign an agreement giving the school broader disciplinary powers. Back in mid-August, when no one had access to campus, those agreements probably weren't in place yet and our rumor mill has not reported any discipline to the kids at that College St party
I would consider the Edge apartments the school has leased as being "on campus" and the school can (and probably should) put an RA there. Same goes for any apartments in the neighborhood that the school owns or holds the lease on
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Post by WCHC Sports on Sept 8, 2020 10:55:22 GMT -5
The earlier feedback and reporting made it seem like students who were staying away had a committee formed against them to report on their doings off-campus. If the campus is closed for classes, and the students aren't living on the campus, then why else are these students allowed to go back on for other purposes? The library is open for socially-distanced studying? The dining hall?
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Post by Tom on Sept 8, 2020 11:25:41 GMT -5
The campus isn't totally closed for classes. Things like labs and performing arts type classes are still happening on campus. There are probably others that I'm not aware of.
A percentage of the students in those special on campus classes have off campus apartments
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 8, 2020 11:55:22 GMT -5
The earlier feedback and reporting made it seem like students who were staying away had a committee formed against them to report on their doings off-campus. If the campus is closed for classes, and the students aren't living on the campus, then why else are these students allowed to go back on for other purposes? The library is open for socially-distanced studying? The dining hall? There are five cohorts of students. 1.) Those living on-campus. 2.) Those living off-campus, in HC leased apartments. (Assuming HC continued its leases of apartments at The Edge. I will also assume that all students at The Edge have permission to use resources and facilities at HC.) 3.) Those living off-campus, in private leases, and who have permission to use resources and facilities at HC. 4.) Those living off-campus, in private leases, and who do not have permission to use resources and facilities at HC. 5. a) Those residing at home, and commuting to the campus, as they have permission to be on campus. (illustratively, a FB player who is the son of a member of the athletic staff, and presumably living at home, and would have permission to come to campus and practice, workout.) 5.b) Those living at home and who do not have permission As I understand HC's testing protocol, starting around August 27, cohorts 1, 2, 3, and 5a had their initial tests, and will now be tested periodically by HC under its contract with the Broad Institute. HC has said it will not test every day. As part of the contract, the Broad institute provides HC with uniquely numbered test kits, one kit per individual test. HC takes the test swab and sends the swab back to Broad for analysis. The library is open for those students who need access to the library for research purposes; it is not a study hall. Students on-campus are living one student per room, so noise and distractions of roommates should not be an issue. There are three dining facilities open to students; main Kimball may be reserved to students living on-campus.
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Post by hcpride on Sept 8, 2020 12:44:19 GMT -5
/\ FWIW I know of a group of 4 HC kids who are renting a place in Boston together this semester who we can group in cohort 4B. That is actually a quite popular thing to do (not necessarily Boston and not necessarily HC, of course) for kids whose campuses are closed. Why be remote from mom's basement if you can be remote while living with pals in a nice city?
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 8, 2020 14:07:00 GMT -5
If HC is still giving courses on-campus (even if only for a few students) that would. make HC a hybrid program...not distance learning exclusively. Can't HC then accept foreign students and have them on campus?
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 8, 2020 14:43:47 GMT -5
If HC is still giving courses on-campus (even if only for a few students) that would. make HC a hybrid program...not distance learning exclusively. Can't HC then accept foreign students and have them on campus? I think Some foreign students have been on campus for the duration since possibly September, 2019 when they arrived for an uneventful academic year.
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 8, 2020 14:45:48 GMT -5
My understanding was there was a bunch of foreign students who were "trapped" in the U.S. and couldn't go home and they were and are allowed to stay on campus. As for accepting new (freshmen/transfers), that may be another thing altogether.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 8, 2020 15:07:32 GMT -5
The number of foreign students who were 'trapped' was about 50, and these were at HC all summer, and there were no positive cases. I assume this number, more or less, has continued into the fall semester. HC may also be allowing foreign students who are entering freshmen to live on campus, as remote learning for such students can be difficult.
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Post by hc6774 on Sept 8, 2020 15:23:57 GMT -5
/\ FWIW I know of a group of 4 HC kids who are renting a place in Boston together this semester who we can group in cohort 4B. That is actually a quite popular thing to do (not necessarily Boston and not necessarily HC, of course) for kids whose campuses are closed. Why be remote from mom's basement if you can be remote while living with pals in a nice city? I'm aware of another 2 or more [one from Oregon] that are using parents Buzzards Bay second home
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Post by Tom on Sept 9, 2020 7:33:21 GMT -5
The earlier feedback and reporting made it seem like students who were staying away had a committee formed against them to report on their doings off-campus. If the campus is closed for classes, and the students aren't living on the campus, then why else are these students allowed to go back on for other purposes? The library is open for socially-distanced studying? The dining hall? There are five cohorts of students. 1.) Those living on-campus. 2.) Those living off-campus, in HC leased apartments. (Assuming HC continued its leases of apartments at The Edge. I will also assume that all students at The Edge have permission to use resources and facilities at HC.) 3.) Those living off-campus, in private leases, and who have permission to use resources and facilities at HC. 4.) Those living off-campus, in private leases, and who do not have permission to use resources and facilities at HC. 5. a) Those residing at home, and commuting to the campus, as they have permission to be on campus. (illustratively, a FB player who is the son of a member of the athletic staff, and presumably living at home, and would have permission to come to campus and practice, workout.) 5.b) Those living at home and who do not have permission From HC's viewpoint, is there really any difference between group 4 and group 5b? Students living somewhere not owned by HC who will not be setting foot on campus. If the kid isn't allowed on campus, it shouldn't matter to HC if the kid is living with mom and dad, with other family members, a 3rd party owned apartment or a van parked down by the Blackstone River. I'm not even sure its incumbent on the student to tell the school where they're 100% remoting from. --------------------------------------------------- HC can let foreign or domestic students on campus if they so choose. That doesn't do much if a foreign student can get into the country. Even with our closest buddy Canada, the border is fairly closed
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 9, 2020 7:44:21 GMT -5
I read at one time that foreign students could be admitted, but not if the college was fully into distance learning. If HC has students taking labs and a few other things on campus, it would seem that distance learning is not 100%. (But I long ago stopped looking for consistency in government policies. )
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Post by hc6774 on Sept 9, 2020 8:31:47 GMT -5
I read at one time that foreign students could be admitted, but not if the college was fully into distance learning. If HC has students taking labs and a few other things on campus, it would seem that distance learning is not 100%. (But I long ago stopped looking for consistency in government policies. ) "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. A great person does not have to think consistently from one day to the next. This remark comes from the essay “ Self-Reliance ” by Ralph Waldo Emerson. Emerson does not explain the difference between foolish and wise consistency." from dictionary.com
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 9, 2020 8:36:03 GMT -5
Thanks, I was not familiar with that quote. I have lived by another one: A neat desk is the sign of a troubled mind.
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Post by alum on Sept 9, 2020 8:54:02 GMT -5
Did we ever determine whether the off campus student monitoring committee was a real thing?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 9, 2020 9:20:31 GMT -5
The distinction that I draw between 4 and 5b is that HC retains some degree of in loco parentis, in that HC allowed the student to live off-campus. Students wishing to live off-campus must first apply and then be approved to do so by HC. Not so for students living at home.
Holy Cross is reporting one more positive case today, a student. That is a total of ten students who tested positive using the Broad Institute test. As HC appears to be starting a second round of student tests, this positive test suggests the student became infected after returning to HC / Worcester.
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Post by Tom on Sept 9, 2020 10:37:01 GMT -5
The distinction that I draw between 4 and 5b is that HC retains some degree of in loco parentis, in that HC allowed the student to live off-campus. Students wishing to live off-campus must first apply and then be approved to do so by HC. Not so for students living at home. Holy Cross is reporting one more positive case today, a student. That is a total of ten students who tested positive using the Broad Institute test. As HC appears to be starting a second round of student tests, this positive test suggests the student became infected after returning to HC / Worcester. I suppose that the kids at some point got permission to live off campus before the campus was basically closed. I don't know how much in loco parentis the school retains if they don't know where the kid is living. Are students with no access to campus required to tell the school where they are setting up remotely?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 9, 2020 12:28:26 GMT -5
The distinction that I draw between 4 and 5b is that HC retains some degree of in loco parentis, in that HC allowed the student to live off-campus. Students wishing to live off-campus must first apply and then be approved to do so by HC. Not so for students living at home. Holy Cross is reporting one more positive case today, a student. That is a total of ten students who tested positive using the Broad Institute test. As HC appears to be starting a second round of student tests, this positive test suggests the student became infected after returning to HC / Worcester. I suppose that the kids at some point got permission to live off campus before the campus was basically closed. I don't know how much in loco parentis the school retains if they don't know where the kid is living. Are students with no access to campus required to tell the school where they are setting up remotely? 300 students, mainly seniors, received permission to live off campus in the spring. Over the summer, the college allowed additional students to apply to live off-campus. More did. From memory, the initial responses to the college's asking students where they planned to live fall semester was this: 70 percent on-campus; 4 percent at home and commute; 11 percent at home and completely remote; 15 percent off-campus in Worcester. That's roughly 475 students planning to live off-campus in Worcester. << These percentages were partial returns, and could have changed in the final tabulation. The college was amenable to having more students live on-campus because the study abroad programs were cancelled (but not the DC or NY semesters) and the freshmen class yield was higher than anticipated. I may have a better gauge of the number of students living on-campus, and off-campus in Worcester with permission to come on campus, by tomorrow / Friday with more test results are in from The Broad Institute. The college's interest in knowing which students are living off-campus in Worcester stems from the interactions / relationships these students have with each other. A student living off-campus in Worcester and without permission to come on campus may be living with a student who does have permission. For this reason, if I were HC, I would also regularly test the latter. A group of students who decide to spend the semester on the Cape living together, I don't give a rat's ass about (if I'm the college). I also don't give a rat's ass about students living off-campus and who are not interacting in a material way with those other off-campus students who have permission to come on campus.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 9, 2020 14:40:52 GMT -5
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 9, 2020 14:43:51 GMT -5
Moving across state lines? Sounds like a return to the bad old days of prohibition (or so I hear...not old enough to have been there).
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Post by Tom on Sept 9, 2020 15:25:22 GMT -5
Didn't click the read full article, but the first paragraph says HC has "issued sanctions or launched disciplinary proceedings against students for breaking coronavirus directives" I wonder if this is regarding the kids over the summer or if there has been something since school started. We never heard of any repercussions from that mid August party When I started at HC, drinking age in MA was 20, but NH was 18. More so at places like U Lowell, but heading to NH was not the worst plan
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 10, 2020 15:07:34 GMT -5
Based on HC's test reporting, there appears to be about 700 students living on-campus, or living off-campus with permission to come on campus. This is based on tests administered Mon-Wed, and reported on Wed-Thurs (today). AFAIK, HC does not yet have a policy of surveillance testing of students living either off-campus or at home in Worcester County who do not have permission to come on campus.
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