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Post by thecrossisback on Nov 27, 2020 14:18:40 GMT -5
Liberty 38-0
Umass give it up.
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Post by longsuffering on Nov 27, 2020 23:09:49 GMT -5
Even with a limited schedule and no victories, this year of seasoning will make UMass tough to beat next year...by FCS teams. I wish they would use the disruption of Covid as cover for a division change and drop down.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 28, 2020 0:20:35 GMT -5
Sagarin has UMass with a 38.1 Predictor rating before the loss on Friday. HC was at 42.0 last year
UMass was outgained 629 to 227 yards.
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Post by timholycross on Nov 28, 2020 11:41:56 GMT -5
'twould be interesting to see their balance sheet going forward. They have guarantee games against big opponents yearly. Do those games pay the bills, so to speak; or is the program still going to lose money, especially vis-a-vis being in the CAA (and remember, the guarantee games might be null and void if they are in FBS- part of the guarantee is that they're "bowl eligible" games)?
Notice I didn't say a word about competitiveness; everyone that's commented about that versus dropping down is 100% correct.
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Post by Ignutz on Nov 28, 2020 17:23:19 GMT -5
Without taking my shoes off, I calculate the composite scoring for our State U’s gridders at 12 points for and 161 against. That works out to an average loss of 40-3.
Ouch.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 5, 2020 8:41:35 GMT -5
'twould be interesting to see their balance sheet going forward. They have guarantee games against big opponents yearly. Do those games pay the bills, so to speak; or is the program still going to lose money, especially vis-a-vis being in the CAA (and remember, the guarantee games might be null and void if they are in FBS- part of the guarantee is that they're "bowl eligible" games)? Notice I didn't say a word about competitiveness; everyone that's commented about that versus dropping down is 100% correct. The program will continue to lose money. In 2019, football expenses at UMass were $10.3 million. |
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 5, 2020 9:14:00 GMT -5
The program will continue to lose money. In 2019, football expenses at UMass were $10.3 million. In 2019, football expenses at Fordham were $7.6 million. Net of attendance and guarantee games, Fordham might have lost as much. |
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 5, 2020 9:21:02 GMT -5
I'm not a college sports accounting geek by any means. But I believe the logic is that you "lose less" as a low-level FBS than as an FCS in a lot of cases. UMASS did an extensive study before making the move, they knew what they were doing. From a W-L prospective, the move has been a disaster. From an athletic financial perspective, it might not be. Until you get to the top half of P5, very few schools are net profiting off of football. Though of course, athletic office accounting may have incentive to underreport revenue or overreport expenses.
Sports are weird when it comes to finances, especially at the pro level. The Pittsburgh Pirates throughout the 1990's and 2000's were one of the most profitable baseball franchises and the late 1990's Bulls AFTER JORDAN were one of the most profitable NBA teams despite losing 60+ games.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Dec 5, 2020 9:48:45 GMT -5
Failing to read the tea leaves correctly on the implosion of the Big East as a FB conference (which was their ultimate landing spot with Bob Kraft's influence paving the way) is what killed any shot of UMess making it work as a 1A.
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Post by hcgrad94 on Dec 5, 2020 10:02:10 GMT -5
The program will continue to lose money. In 2019, football expenses at UMass were $10.3 million. In 2019, football expenses at Fordham were $7.6 million. Net of attendance and guarantee games, Fordham might have lost as much. Does the $7.6M include scholarship aid? Would have to - no way their operating expenses along would get to that point. UMass, on the other hand, probably did spend $10.3M on salaries/operations alone. |
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Post by hcgrad94 on Dec 5, 2020 10:06:54 GMT -5
I'm not a college sports accounting geek by any means. But I believe the logic is that you "lose less" as a low-level FBS than as an FCS in a lot of cases. UMASS did an extensive study before making the move, they knew what they were doing. From a W-L prospective, the move has been a disaster. From an athletic financial perspective, it might not be. Until you get to the top half of P5, very few schools are net profiting off of football. Though of course, athletic office accounting may have incentive to underreport revenue or overreport expenses. Sports are weird when it comes to finances, especially at the pro level. The Pittsburgh Pirates throughout the 1990's and 2000's were one of the most profitable baseball franchises and the late 1990's Bulls AFTER JORDAN were one of the most profitable NBA teams despite losing 60+ games. Heres how that extensive survey you mentioned went. Clearly they didn’t know what they were doing. commonwealthmagazine.org/education/umass-football-thrown-for-big-losses/ |
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 5, 2020 10:15:05 GMT -5
Does the $7.6M include scholarship aid? Would have to - no way their operating expenses along would get to that point. UMass, on the other hand, probably did spend $10.3M on salaries/operations alone. Walt Bell makes $600K at UMass, which is less than some SEC assistants make. On a net-net basis, the losses at UMass aren't as much as you think compared to Fordham. UMass got guarantee money in 2019 from Rutgers ($1.3 million), Northwestern ($1.2 million) Army ($250,000) FIU ($150,000), and Charlotte ($150,000). Fordham got $350,000 for its only guarantee game in 2019 at Ball State. |
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Post by hcgrad94 on Dec 5, 2020 10:40:32 GMT -5
According to article I posted, UMass has lost $40M plus since move to FBS. No way Fordham is losing close to that or they would have dropped FB years ago. I’m going to channel my inner PP and say the $7.3M includes the cost of 60 scholarships, meaning their operating expenses are more like $3M. With revenues of $7-800k, including guarantees, that puts the losses at more like $2M/year.
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Post by timholycross on Dec 5, 2020 15:04:02 GMT -5
Failing to read the tea leaves correctly on the implosion of the Big East as a FB conference (which was their ultimate landing spot with Bob Kraft's influence paving the way) is what killed any shot of UMess making it work as a 1A. If that was the impetus, that was an incredibly bad decision, given that the Big East was on life support football-wise when UMass announced it was moving up. UConn taking the FBS plunge was much more forgivable. |
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 6, 2020 7:50:32 GMT -5
In 2019, football expenses at Fordham were $7.6 million. Net of attendance and guarantee games, Fordham might have lost as much. Does the $7.6M include scholarship aid? Would have to - no way their operating expenses along would get to that point. UMass, on the other hand, probably did spend $10.3M on salaries/operations alone. Fordham's expenses include scollie aid. As do UMass' . Except scollie aid per scollie athlete is 'cheaper' at a public university as cost of attendance is less. In 2019, Fordham spent $8.1 million in financial aid for male athletes. Football operating expenses were less than $1 million. In 2019, UMass spent $6.7 million in financial aid for male athletes. Football operating expenses were $1.6 million. |
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Post by hcgrad94 on Dec 6, 2020 9:19:46 GMT -5
No way that’s the total $ for UMass to operate their program. With a head coach making $600k and about 20+ personnel associated with the program, salaries alone would be $1.6M+.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Dec 6, 2020 10:12:15 GMT -5
UMess was 6.9 mil in the hole on FB for FY '18, and no way it improved by 5+ mil in a year.
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Post by hchoops on Dec 6, 2020 10:14:12 GMT -5
7 pages on UMass football !!
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 6, 2020 13:12:20 GMT -5
No way that’s the total $ for UMass to operate their program. With a head coach making $600k and about 20+ personnel associated with the program, salaries alone would be $1.6M+. UMass cost of attendance is $30,000 in-state, $43,000 other New England states, $50,000 outside of New England $30,000 x 85 full scollies is $2.6 million $50,000 x 85 full scollies is $4.3 million Add what you think is the scollie cost for football, + recruiting costs, + coaches compensation costs, + operating expenses of $1.6M = $10.3 million. << This sum is for direct expenses. The two unknown variables (compensation and recruiting) amount to a max of $4 million Operating costs DO NOT INCLUDE coaches compensation. Operating costs, so-called game-day costs, include travel, equipment, etc. HC's rental of Yankee Stadium was an operating cost. Some football related costs may be included in indirect expenses, e.g., strength & conditioning, medical insurance, Indirect expenses are not included in the $10.3 million. |
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steve81
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 98 
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Post by steve81 on Jan 3, 2021 13:17:59 GMT -5
Going to comment on 3 different topics and then finally the main reason of posting, why don't you guys schedule a home and home with James Madison?
One is donations have never been higher or guarantee revenue.
You could say guarantee revenue pays for the additional scholarships and donations pay for the extra expenses as salaries and big ticket items, which would have not been given if still fcs.
That said we moved up at the worst possible time and then fu-ked up the transition. So with the worst case scenario we are basically losing the same money as fcs.
Think we'll have 3-5 wins and feel very good with the OL assistant coaching replacement with Alex Miller coming home from UNH.
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Post by timholycross on Jan 3, 2021 16:17:20 GMT -5
Going to comment on 3 different topics and then finally the main reason of posting, why don't you guys schedule a home and home with James Madison?
I probably have the most vested interest in that as my daughter is a student there. JMU has to hoof it to Kingston, Durham and (ugh) Orono every two or three years. I doubt they'd want to add a fourth trip to that list. More in it for Holy Cross to go there, especially when you factor in the crowds they draw vis-a-vis Fitton. But it's not an easy trip by any means. 525 or so mile bus trip. Flying there requires at least one stop; and that's originating from Logan or Providence. If you just fly to DC, it's 120 miles from there. |
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Post by efg72 on Jan 3, 2021 18:24:50 GMT -5
But there are great Golden Retreiver Breeders within 20 minute of the campus😇
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Post by timholycross on Jan 3, 2021 18:31:27 GMT -5
But there are great Golden Retreiver Breeders within 20 minute of the campus😇 A sh**tload of caves, too. Driving along I81 in VA is, for the most part, reminiscent of Vermont. |
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 3, 2021 18:42:13 GMT -5
Going to comment on 3 different topics and then finally the main reason of posting, why don't you guys schedule a home and home with James Madison?
I probably have the most vested interest in that as my daughter is a student there. JMU has to hoof it to Kingston, Durham and (ugh) Orono every two or three years. I doubt they'd want to add a fourth trip to that list. More in it for Holy Cross to go there, especially when you factor in the crowds they draw vis-a-vis Fitton. But it's not an easy trip by any means. 525 or so mile bus trip. Flying there requires at least one stop; and that's originating from Logan or Providence. If you just fly to DC, it's 120 miles from there. Maybe Bob Kraft will lend/rent HC the Patriots plane for a direct flight if the Pats are home that weekend and won't need it. I wonder if it can fit on the Worcester Airport runway. |
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Post by efg72 on Jan 3, 2021 18:45:07 GMT -5
He is a generous man-he gave my group $3 m plus for our work in addiction
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