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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 13, 2020 22:32:51 GMT -5
I just read a report that speculates that the Cleveland Indians, named for Holy Cross's Louis Sockalexis, will soon announce that they are dropping the Indians nickname...
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 13, 2020 23:03:52 GMT -5
Handled more maturely than Dan Snyder handled it in Washington. I like tradition but respect for Native Americans is more important. If I can learn to say Los Angeles instead of San Diego when discussing the Chargers I can learn to say whatever Cleveland's new name will be.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 14, 2020 1:03:44 GMT -5
As a person of Irish ancestry, the Boston Celtics’ logo and mascot should be next to go.
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Post by trimster on Dec 14, 2020 7:01:06 GMT -5
As a person of Irish ancestry, the Boston Celtics’ logo and mascot should be next to go. Speaking of Irish logos, how about the Fighting Irish or as that one untouchable, kind of like the Seminole Chief of Florida State. |
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Post by Tom on Dec 14, 2020 9:04:04 GMT -5
Handled more maturely than Dan Snyder handled it in Washington. I like tradition but respect for Native Americans is more important. If I can learn to say Los Angeles instead of San Diego when discussing the Chargers I can learn to say whatever Cleveland's new name will be. Two ways to look at it. Chief Wahoo has been gone for a while now. Changing the name can also be about we no longer respect Native Americans and don't want to emulate them |
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Post by Tom on Dec 14, 2020 9:06:50 GMT -5
As a person of Irish ancestry, the Boston Celtics’ logo and mascot should be next to go. Speaking of Irish logos, how about the Fighting Irish or as that one untouchable, kind of like the Seminole Chief of Florida State. The most recent information I have is that the Seminole Nation likes the fact that Florida State chooses to honor them with the nickname |
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Post by alum on Dec 14, 2020 9:19:33 GMT -5
Private business made a decision.
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Post by thecrossisback on Dec 14, 2020 10:13:16 GMT -5
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Post by Tom on Dec 14, 2020 10:21:20 GMT -5
Not sure if it's the same book, but a guy named Ed Rice from Maine wrote a good book on Sockalexis. He also spoke at HC maybe 10 years ago. I enjoyed the talk |
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Post by hcpride on Dec 14, 2020 10:35:50 GMT -5
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Post by alum on Dec 14, 2020 10:46:12 GMT -5
As a person of Irish ancestry, the Boston Celtics’ logo and mascot should be next to go. Well, then get on it. Start a campaign. Heck, you could set up a nonprofit, declare yourself director, start a gofundme, promote it on Parler and pay yourself a hefty salary. |
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 14, 2020 11:12:43 GMT -5
Being a descendant of the last high king of Ireland, I don't find the name Celtics offensive but wonder how the WASPs of Boston allowed the name unless they thought it was a pejorative. As for Cleveland, not sure how "Indians" is offensive per se, unless they prefer "Native Americans" which doesn't roll trippingly off the tongue, or even more of a tongue twister, "Indigenous People" or "First Nation." I suppose "Indians" just continues the misnomer going back to Columbus - the person, not the Ohio city and capital. Somewhere along the lines, a name intended as an honor, became an insult. How about the Cleveland "Lous" as the "Cleveland Sockalexis" is still a rough one to pronounce but sounds plural. "Cleveland Eries?" Lakes shouldn't be offensive, right?  |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 14, 2020 11:34:13 GMT -5
Being a descendant of the last high king of Ireland, I don't find the name Celtics offensive but wonder how the WASPs of Boston allowed the name unless they thought it was a pejorative. As for Cleveland, not sure how "Indians" is offensive per se, unless they prefer "Native Americans" which doesn't roll trippingly off the tongue, or even more of a tongue twister, "Indigenous People" or "First Nation." I suppose "Indians" just continues the misnomer going back to Columbus - the person, not the Ohio city and capital. Somewhere along the lines, a name intended as an honor, became an insult. How about the Cleveland "Lous" as the "Cleveland Sockalexis" is still a rough one to pronounce but sounds plural. "Cleveland Eries?" Lakes shouldn't be offensive, right? Are you not aware of the many people who cannot swim? Why target them for ridicule and mockery? |
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 14, 2020 11:36:36 GMT -5
Speaking of Irish logos, how about the Fighting Irish or as that one untouchable, kind of like the Seminole Chief of Florida State. The most recent information I have is that the Seminole Nation likes the fact that Florida State chooses to honor them with the nickname You are correct. They spoke up to keep that nickname. However, the Sioux also liked their nickname ("the Fighting Sioux") but it did them no good. |
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Post by Crucis#1 on Dec 14, 2020 12:00:49 GMT -5
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Post by WorcesterGray on Dec 14, 2020 13:09:43 GMT -5
Sockalexis played for the Cleveland Spiders, 1897-1899. The 1899 team went 20-134, the worst record in major league history. In true "elite strike force" fashion, they went 1-40 down the stretch.
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Post by hchoops on Dec 14, 2020 13:36:48 GMT -5
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 14, 2020 14:17:28 GMT -5
Sockalexis played for the Cleveland Spiders, 1897-1899. The 1899 team went 20-134, the worst record in major league history. In true "elite strike force" fashion, they went 1-40 down the stretch.
Those 1899 games were rigged. |
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Post by Tom on Dec 14, 2020 14:40:52 GMT -5
Per the Ed Rice book, in the olden days team names were less formal. Hence the sportswriters referring to the Cleveland team as the Nap's after player/manager Nap Lajoie. During Sockalexis' time the sportswriters often referred to the team as the Indians because they had an Indian on the team. As mentioned in the NBC column, when Lajoie left town the team really needed a new name and a group of sportswriters were tasked with coming up with a name. Part of the process was researching things that team had been called before. They came upon Indians and decided to go with it.
In the 19th century, the Cleveland team was sometimes (mockingly ) called the Indians because of Sockalexis. In the early 20th century the team was officially named resurrecting a past unofficial name. So the Indians are kind of named after a Holy Cross guy
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 14, 2020 14:53:01 GMT -5
Worcester's National League Team (1880-82) was known as the Worcester Worcesters. Their field was on the present day site of Becker College if I am remembering correctly the marker I read years ago while walking by.
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Post by Tom on Dec 14, 2020 16:07:50 GMT -5
Being a descendant of the last high king of Ireland, I don't find the name Celtics offensive but wonder how the WASPs of Boston allowed the name unless they thought it was a pejorative. I did not know we were related. On my mother's side so I can't claim any throne |
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 14, 2020 16:38:32 GMT -5
Yeah, Tom, I believe we've had this discussion in the past. I've already done my version of Edward VIII and renounced any claim to the throne.  |
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Post by timholycross on Dec 14, 2020 19:45:22 GMT -5
So, ironically, the nicknames Braves (which one would have to say is also in jeopardy) and Redskins originated in Boston and the nickname Indians just down the road at HC!
Trivia question: What was the Braves' nickname briefly changed to; and what similar change (again reverted) was made by the Phillies?
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 14, 2020 22:07:15 GMT -5
Bees
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Post by timholycross on Dec 15, 2020 8:32:17 GMT -5
Correct. And the Phillies were briefly the Blue Jays; which puts Toronto (baseball), Houston and Tennessee (both football) in the category of cities that recycled a nickname used in the same sport (I'm sure there are others). |
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