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Post by Tom on Dec 15, 2020 8:42:39 GMT -5
Correct. And the Phillies were briefly the Blue Jays; which puts Toronto (baseball), Houston and Tennessee (both football) in the category of cities that recycled a nickname used in the same sport (I'm sure there are others). The Washington Senators and Winnipeg Jets both left town and were later replaced with a franchise with the same name. I believe the relocating Expos considered recycling the Senators for a 3rd time
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Post by Crucis#1 on Dec 15, 2020 8:54:45 GMT -5
The team was the Bees from 1936-1941. The team changed back to the Braves once Lou Perini became the owner. There is a HC connection with the Braves.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Dec 15, 2020 9:40:32 GMT -5
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Post by Crucis#1 on Dec 15, 2020 11:46:28 GMT -5
Great Reference ACTP. One that many would not make as the Babe is commonly associated with the Red Sox and Yankees.
The connection is even more personal and direct to HC than Babe Ruth’s appearance and playing in the band.
The Holy Cross connection is with Lou Perini, former owner of the Braves and father of Dave Perini, a HC Alum, ’59, Football Athlete, and former member of the Board of Trustees.
At one time a story circulated that Lou Perini, owner of Perini Construction, during the 1950’s offered to build an on campus athletic facility and gym for HC, provided the gym had his name. The offer was turn down, due to HC and the Jesuits having a policy to name buildings only after Jesuits. Fortunately, HC has seen that decision was not in the best interest to the College.
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Post by Tom on Dec 15, 2020 12:50:19 GMT -5
Great Reference ACTP. One that many would not make as the Babe is commonly associated with the Red Sox and Yankees. The connection is even more personal and direct to HC than Babe Ruth’s appearance and playing in the band. The Holy Cross connection is with Lou Perini, former owner of the Braves and father of Dave Perini, a HC Alum, ’59, Football Athlete, and former member of the Board of Trustees. At one time a story circulated that Lou Perini, owner of Perini Construction, during the 1950’s offered to build an on campus athletic facility and gym for HC, provided the gym had his name. The offer was turn down, due to HC and the Jesuits having a policy to name buildings only after Jesuits. Fortunately, HC has seen that decision was not in the best interest to the College. There used to be an old trivia question about the 3 members of the 500 HR club that started their careers in one city, left town, and then finished up in their original city. Obviously Ruth was one. (Boston Red Sox => New York Yankees => Boston Braves) With players moving more frequently, I think the count is now 6
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Post by Chu Chu on Dec 15, 2020 15:09:37 GMT -5
What a thoroughly excellent article! I learned a lot I didn't know.
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Post by HC92 on Dec 15, 2020 15:53:57 GMT -5
I suspect the lives of all Native Americans will immediately become better based on this change. Really gets at the problems our Native American communities face in the real world.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 15, 2020 17:49:29 GMT -5
The sarcasm isn't needed. As these things seem to go, all that is being changed is removing any connection to Lou Sockalexis (and his contribution to MLB) - an outstanding athlete. Removing diversity?
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Post by Crucis#1 on Dec 15, 2020 20:11:37 GMT -5
Always interesting to see the opinions of people who have never set foot on a Native American Reservation (other than possibly Mashantucket - Pequot / Foxwoods on a gambling excursion).
Chief Wahoo is an highly inaccurate characterization whose use should have never been created. It was not a tribute to Louis Sockalexis. The connection and contributions of Sockalexis is not being erase or canceled by people who are informed in baseball history. The willfully ignorant will continue to be so and make fools of themselves. Chief Wahoo and Chief Knockahoma are evil depictions by some who would be outraged when their particular heritage group is mocked and made fun of in a derogatory fashion.
The lives of First Nations people will not change as a result of the Cleveland baseball decision. Change will only occur with the support of concerned American citizens who have recognize 400 years of economic suppression and who take steps through their volunteer actions to provide improvement to the conditions on the reservations and the Urban enclaves that Native people reside.
As a start, they could contribute to the American Indian College Fund, help organize a church or fraternal organization to provide clean water, electricity and broadband access in a First Nation community, become involved in the Urban Indian Health Program, support JVC programs that focus on education and training on reservations.
Amazing how people whose ancestors two or three generations ago were mocked and derided for their ethnic cultural traditions and idiosyncrasies can defend the use of Chief Wahoo. I was pleased when my daughter’s high school dropped the “Indian” mascot. It took years of effort by parents and alumni to see it through. I always cringed at sporting events when some adolescents, with no cultural affinity, started what they though was a war chant. It was shameful.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Dec 15, 2020 21:01:05 GMT -5
Excellent post Crucis.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Dec 15, 2020 21:45:50 GMT -5
Thanks ACTP! I appreciate your feedback.
It is extremely difficult to deal with people who continue to not understand how words, graphics, derogatory pictures and stereotypes can be harmful. The damage to First Nations and Indigenous people continues to be inflicted daily in a pervasive manner throughout North America and South America.
For those that are willing to listen, there is hope than you can understand. For those that can not see the damage that these symbols inflict upon First Nations People, you have waisted an education. Look in a mirror, your grandparents and great grandparents suffered the same indignities. It is a shame you did not learn from them the hurt they received from callous and bigoted creatures.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Dec 15, 2020 22:16:56 GMT -5
25 years ago a friend from Worc taught boxing on the Menominee Reservation in WI for a year. The stories he told me about life on the reservation were incredibly sad and heartbreaking, and to your point Crucis, very few realize what they endure.
Also my wife is what was previously known as a division Chief in the U.S. Dept. of the Interior, however the word "Chief" has recently been struck permanently from DOI titles.
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Post by HC92 on Dec 15, 2020 22:35:12 GMT -5
25 years ago a friend from Worc taught boxing on the Menominee Reservation in WI for a year. The stories he told me about life on the reservation were incredibly sad and heartbreaking, and to your point Crucis, very few realize what they endure. Also my wife is what was previously known as a division Chief in the U.S. Dept. of the Interior, however the word "Chief" has recently been struck permanently from DOI titles. This post perfectly makes my point. 1. There are incredibly sad and heartbreaking situations in these communities. 2. A bunch of mostly white bureaucrats decide that not calling the leader of a department of bureaucrats the “Chief” of that department is somehow impactful on anything in the real world. I can only imagine all the backslapping and high-fiving in Washington when this momentous decision was made. Meanwhile, people are still suffering just as much as they were the day before.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Dec 15, 2020 22:47:08 GMT -5
You're off on #2 92. The elimination of the title of "Chief" emanated from field sites in the NPS, not a "look what we did" moment dropped down from the suits in DC.
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Post by HC92 on Dec 15, 2020 23:09:37 GMT -5
You're off on #2 92. The elimination of the title of "Chief" emanated from field sites in the NPS, not a "look what we did" moment dropped down from the suits in DC. I don’t think it matters which bureaucrats came up with the idea. My opinion of its impact on any real world problem is the same. It does, however, put lots of “Chief Diversity Officers” at corporations all around the country in a real predicament.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Dec 15, 2020 23:29:43 GMT -5
There isn't a field staffer in the National Park Service who would ever be referred to as, or consider themselves a "bureaucrat".
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Post by HC92 on Dec 16, 2020 8:23:48 GMT -5
I don’t think it matters which field staffer(s) in the National Park Service came up with the idea. My opinion of its impact on any real world problem is the same.
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Post by timholycross on Dec 16, 2020 10:29:41 GMT -5
I don’t think it matters which field staffer(s) in the National Park Service came up with the idea. My opinion of its impact on any real world problem is the same. Exactly. Removing the nickname "indian" is entirely different matter.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 16, 2020 18:50:19 GMT -5
I’m just thankful we have gone away with the term “master bedroom” because that was grossly inappropriate. “Primary bedroom” allows me to sleep better at night.
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