|
Post by Sons of Vaval on Oct 16, 2017 7:08:27 GMT -5
If Coach Rock runs the table, could he get the permanent post ? No. Clean slate needed. Rock was more of a Pine hire than a Gilmore hire.
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 16, 2017 7:20:17 GMT -5
Columbia was once so bad that the Ivy League allowed them to recruit below the AI floor for several years. It didn't help much.
|
|
|
Post by gks on Oct 16, 2017 7:21:36 GMT -5
Get out of the 'Ivy' mindset. Need someone who thinks bigger.
|
|
|
Post by alum on Oct 16, 2017 7:26:10 GMT -5
Is he the best Bergen Catholic grad available?
|
|
|
Post by joe on Oct 16, 2017 7:27:03 GMT -5
Get out of the 'Ivy' mindset. Need someone who thinks bigger. Thank you. We didn’t dump 97 million down just to be even with the IL. Next move is get the hell out of the PL. Do it now and take the lumps; we’re at rock bottom and have nothing to lose and nowhere to go from here but up.
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on Oct 16, 2017 7:28:41 GMT -5
Get out of the 'Ivy' mindset. Need someone who thinks bigger. Thank you. We didn’t dump 97 million down just to be even with the IL. Next move is get the hell out of the PL. Do it now and take the lumps; we’re at rock bottom and have nothing to lose and nowhere to go from here but up. What league do you suggest ? for all sports ?
|
|
|
Post by joe on Oct 16, 2017 7:50:55 GMT -5
I’ve always tolerated the PL for football, but am disappointed with the league’s failure to capitalize of schollies to outplay the IL and get more competitive with the CAA. I also cannot for the life of me fathom why the PL insists on martyring itself by limiting schollies numbers and non-medical redshirting. In my mind, non-medical redshirting gives these guys a chance to spread out their coursework and actually actually have some time to learn a little more over the course of 4.5 years. It’s just so stupid, shortsighted, and self-righteous. What I’d love to see is a new league with HC, Fordham, and a few of the CAA schools who would be willing to break away into a small league, also UMass and UConn if they ever came back down to earth. I have zero interest in the PA schools or Colgate where you drive for 10 hours to play in front of 9 fans. No wonder we have trouble getting up for these games. Georgetown does it’s own thing and we stand nothing to gain by playing them, only something to lose. FU is a great rival, Jesuit school, NYC, etc. We need to embrace our old rivals like BC and find some new ones, like UNH.
Basketball? PL is simply a crap league. However, I think BC may be able to play us out over 3-5 years. I’d maybe punt on this one for now, but if the BE or A10 came knocking why the hell not. Hockey is not PL, but needs to be in HE, not having down this by now is unacceptable. Again, what the heck are we waiting for? Don’t waste another minute. Let’s take our lumps and go for it. No regrets in 7-10 years. De-emphasize the smaller sports. Too small of a school for all these D1 sports. Pick a few and go big.
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 16, 2017 7:50:58 GMT -5
Thank you. We didn’t dump 97 million down just to be even with the IL. Next move is get the hell out of the PL. Do it now and take the lumps; we’re at rock bottom and have nothing to lose and nowhere to go from here but up. What league do you suggest ? for all sports ? This is a recurring mantra of a few. HC is not leaving the PL, because the PL is the only level where traditional liberal arts colleges can survive in Div I (other than the IL). Davidson is the single exception, and it doesn't play scollie football, and gets heaps of money from the Duke endowment. (Not the Duke U. endowment.) If HC changes the curriculum, expands in enrollment, then it can think about leaving the PL for a higher conference. The PL maintains the AI for a reason, even though the AI is a huge constraint on recruiting.
|
|
|
Post by gks on Oct 16, 2017 7:56:36 GMT -5
Forget the Ivies....unlimited budgets, no roster restrictions, something like 120 equivalencies....can't compete with that. Let them be there own little island that people in tweed care about. Shoot tom compete with CAA and yes the NEC, who in many ways have passed the PL.
|
|
|
Post by joe on Oct 16, 2017 7:57:50 GMT -5
Dare to be different. HC can create it’s own reality in the landscape of D1 athletics. If the PL can’t bend with the times, HC needs to pick up the gauntlet with new league partners and a form a new set of rules in which a small, liberal arts school can compete at the FCS level. What it takes is passion, creativity, and strategy. The status quo is not working. It’s had it chance and has failed.
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Oct 16, 2017 8:05:35 GMT -5
Forget the Ivies....unlimited budgets, no roster restrictions, something like 120 equivalencies....can't compete with that. Let them be there own little island that people in tweed care about. Shoot tom compete with CAA and yes the NEC, who in many ways have passed the PL.
Why not try to join CAA Football ? Add the redshirt and the schollies. Keep an internal AI if that is necessary. We can out recruit some of them with the right leadership. And I'd like to see us play UNH, URI, Villanova, Maine, Stony Brook and the others. We'll bring Fordham in the CAA with us. And play a few Ivies and a NEC OOC.
(I am aware CAA wouldn't necessarily have room for us. Maybe I'll write a letter with my suggestion to the CAA and have us as part of a CAA-North. Keep Richmond, William and Mary, etc in the CAA-South)
|
|
|
Post by joe on Oct 16, 2017 8:06:42 GMT -5
Forget the Ivies....unlimited budgets, no roster restrictions, something like 120 equivalencies....can't compete with that. Let them be there own little island that people in tweed care about. Shoot tom compete with CAA and yes the NEC, who in many ways have passed the PL. You know at some point someone ought to drop the dime and write an article about he hypocrisy of IL recruiting. They’ve been smart asses about recruiting now for decades. Non-scholarship my ass. They’ve found a way to actually give MORE money than a PL school can give by massaging aids and grant, and basically running silent auctions on recruits to see whose willing to come up with the most creative package. They can get kids from rich families where money is no object, and also find kids from less wealthy families to justify enormous aid packages. I lived this at HC when we also tried this approach but failed to compete on those terms. This is to say nothing of the fact that there are basically no roster limits, which gives new meaning to “next man up.” I’d be fine walking away from IL opponents in general, and finding some new sand box partners, even if that means a leap up in conference affiliation. Simplest fix is going to the CAA but this is an already bloated conference. Here’s a BCS conference to chew on: Army Navy HC UConn UMass Fordham Villanova James Madison Richmond
|
|
|
Post by realism on Oct 16, 2017 8:18:37 GMT -5
I’ve always tolerated the PL for football, but am disappointed with the league’s failure to capitalize of schollies to outplay the IL and get more competitive with the CAA. I also cannot for the life of me fathom why the PL insists on martyring itself by limiting schollies numbers and non-medical redshirting. In my mind, non-medical redshirting gives these guys a chance to spread out their coursework and actually actually have some time to learn a little more over the course of 4.5 years. It’s just so stupid, shortsighted, and self-righteous. What I’d love to see is a new league with HC, Fordham, and a few of the CAA schools who would be willing to break away into a small league, also UMass and UConn if they ever came back down to earth. I have zero interest in the PA schools or Colgate where you drive for 10 hours to play in front of 9 fans. No wonder we have trouble getting up for these games. Georgetown does it’s own thing and we stand nothing to gain by playing them, only something to lose. FU is a great rival, Jesuit school, NYC, etc. We need to embrace our old rivals like BC and find some new ones, like UNH. Basketball? PL is simply a crap league. However, I think BC may be able to play us out over 3-5 years. I’d maybe punt on this one for now, but if the BE or A10 came knocking why the hell not. Hockey is not PL, but needs to be in HE, not having down this by now is unacceptable. Again, what the heck are we waiting for? Don’t waste another minute. Let’s take our lumps and go for it. No regrets in 7-10 years. De-emphasize the smaller sports. Too small of a school for all these D1 sports. Pick a few and go big. Sorry to interfere with your fantasies so early in the morning . But TPTB know that with H.C.'s 39% acceptance rate ( read it again 39% acceptance rate ), they'd better cling to the P.L. to provide some branding support, lest they be perceived as totally broken. And TPTB know that the P.L. is willing to cover for H.C. as long as TPTB at H.C. are willing to assume the liabiity of being the punching bag for the league. It was so pathetic watching how Yale had to lean over backwards in the 2nd half this Saturday to limit the embarrassment and liability all the way around. Implicitly Yale was saying to H.C., "what are you doing here ?" Nice try, Joe, with this morning's fantasy....but, the comprehensive events of the weekend expose a tragedy of incompetence that's apparent to everyone. I wonder, what are you missing ? H.C. is a mess. H.C. has no alternatives right now...
|
|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 16, 2017 8:22:16 GMT -5
Why would those CAA schools want to leave that conference?
|
|
|
Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 16, 2017 8:29:19 GMT -5
Forget the Ivies....unlimited budgets, no roster restrictions, something like 120 equivalencies....can't compete with that. Let them be there own little island that people in tweed care about. Shoot tom compete with CAA and yes the NEC, who in many ways have passed the PL. You know at some point someone ought to drop the dime and write an article about he hypocrisy of IL recruiting. They’ve been smart asses about recruiting now for decades. Non-scholarship my ass. They’ve found a way to actually give MORE money than a PL school can give by massaging aids and grant, and basically running silent auctions on recruits to see whose willing to come up with the most creative package. They can get kids from rich families where money is no object, and also find kids from less wealthy families to justify enormous aid packages. I lived this at HC when we also tried this approach but failed to compete on those terms. This is to say nothing of the fact that there are basically no roster limits, which gives new meaning to “next man up.” I’d be fine walking away from IL opponents in general, and finding some new sand box partners, even if that means a leap up in conference affiliation. Simplest fix is going to the CAA but this is an already bloated conference. Here’s a BCS conference to chew on: Army Navy HC UConn UMass Fordham Villanova James Madison Richmond Richmond FBS? Last time I checked they just built a 7,000 seat stadium. Villanova will end up playing football in the PL before they move up to FBS (that ship sailed when Big East football blew up). And Navy's going to leave a football conference with ECU, Temple, Tulane, Houston, Memphis & SMU so they can join up with Fordham and Holy Cross? Not happenin'.
I like that you're thinking big but the first step into whatever the future might bring is to get to parity with Colgate, Lehigh and Fordham on a regular basis at the top of the PL. We've been closer to Georgetown in many recent years than we have to the guys at the top. I want the days of getting blown out by Fordham at Yankee Stadium, losing 51-7 to Lehigh @ home and losing three straight Homecoming games in embarrassing fashion to come to an end. Then we can talk about switching conferences. Holy Cross would have been 1-7 or 2-6 at best in the CAA the past five years.
|
|
|
Post by joe on Oct 16, 2017 8:29:31 GMT -5
Why would those CAA schools want to leave that conference? I’m not saying they would, or at least those schools in particular. But I don’t think it’s unreasonable for us to have some conversations with Army and Navy more regularly. They seems to be of the same general mold as HC and many of it’s opponents - elite, selective schools, competing at relatively high athletic levels. Who would not want to be on a small, elite, conference which can compete with the best of FCS and hang in there with FBS schools. Yes it sounds crazy, but less crazy that whatever crapshow magic trick we’ve been trying to pull off for the last 4-6 years. Point is that HC needs to consider all options and where there is none, create them. It’s a wonderful opportunity time right now and anything is possible. First step is that the Crusader moniker stays, the college reaffirms who it wants to be, and NP and others dream big. No more compromises, excuses, or reasons why not. If we can’t do this, then just downsize now. No half steps.
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Oct 16, 2017 8:42:07 GMT -5
Sorry to interfere with your fantasies so early in the morning . But TPTB know that with H.C.'s 39% acceptance rate ( read it again 39% acceptance rate ), they'd better cling to the P.L. to provide some branding support, lest they be perceived as totally broken. And TPTB know that the P.L. is willing to cover for H.C. as long as TPTB at H.C. are willing to assume the liabiity of being the punching bag for the league. ( It was so pathetic watching how Yale had to lean over backwards in the 2nd half this Saturday to limit the embarrassment and liability all the way around. Implicitly Yale was saying to H.C., "what are you doing here ?" Nice try, Joe, with this morning's fantasy....but, the comprehensive events of the weekend expose a tragedy of incompetence that's apparent to everyone. I wonder, what are you missing ? H.C. is a mess. H.C. has no alternatives right now... No doubt our real admission woes (overlooked or glossed over by some) are part of our current athletic affiliation decision making process.
When Yale graciously ran out the ball to turn it over on downs rather than kick the gimme field goal against us I think all observers realized something about the state of HC football. That was within the context of Yale stopping their passing attack and burning the clock in any case.
We're just not doing well on a couple of fronts.
|
|
|
Post by nhteamer on Oct 16, 2017 9:00:34 GMT -5
WIN
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Oct 16, 2017 9:00:52 GMT -5
Yale showed true sportsmanship by what they did. It was appreciated.
|
|
|
Post by nhteamer on Oct 16, 2017 9:08:32 GMT -5
Wow, sometimes i need to be reminded how mind blowing Duffner's record was !!
Edward Anderson 1933-38, 50-64 21 204 129-67-8 .652 Tom Gilmore 2004-2017 14 146 72-81-0 .471 Cleo O’Donnell 1919-1929 11 102 69-27-6 .706 Mark Duffner 1986-1991 6 66 60-5-1 .916 Rick Carter 1981-1985 5 56 35-19-2 .643 Maurice Connor 1898-1902 5 46 27-15-4 .630 Dan Allen 1996-2003 8 89 27-62-0 .303 John McEwen 1930-1932 3 27 21-5-1 .796 Ed Doherty 1971-1975 5 53 20-31-2 .396 Neil Wheelwright 1976-1980 5 55 20-35-0 .364 Timothy Larkin 1907-1912 6 51 18-26-7 .421 John DaGrosa 1945-1947 3 29 17-10-2 .621 Anthony Scanlan 1942-1944 3 27 16-8-3 .648 Frank Cavanaugh 1903-1905 3 28 16-10-1 .607 Joseph Sheeketski 1939-1941 3 29 15-11-3 .569 Peter Vaas 1992-1995 4 44 14-30-0 .318 Luke Kelly 1914-1917 4 32 12-17-3 .422 Melvin Massucco 1965-1966 2 20 8-10-2 .450 Tom Boisture 1967-1968 2 20 8-11-1 .425 A.C. Peterson 1896-1897 2 14 6-5-3 .536 William Osmanski 1948-1949 2 20 6-14-0 .300 George King 1906 1 8 4-3-1 .563 Harry Von Kersberg 1913 1 9 3-6-0 .333 Bart Sullivan 1918 1 2 2-0-0 1.000 John Corbett 1898 1 1 1-0-0 1.000 Arthur Corcoran 1932 1 3 0-1-2 .333 Bill Whitton 1969-1970 2 13 0-12-1 .036
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Oct 16, 2017 9:12:04 GMT -5
Where are Bart Sullivan and John Corbett when HC needs them so badly?
|
|
|
Post by timholycross on Oct 16, 2017 9:33:46 GMT -5
Wow, sometimes i need to be reminded how mind blowing Duffner's record was !! Edward Anderson 1933-38, 50-64 21 204 129-67-8 .652 Tom Gilmore 2004-2017 14 146 72-81-0 .471 Cleo O’Donnell 1919-1929 11 102 69-27-6 .706 Mark Duffner 1986-1991 6 66 60-5-1 .916 Rick Carter 1981-1985 5 56 35-19-2 .643 Maurice Connor 1898-1902 5 46 27-15-4 .630 Dan Allen 1996-2003 8 89 27-62-0 .303 John McEwen 1930-1932 3 27 21-5-1 .796 Ed Doherty 1971-1975 5 53 20-31-2 .396 Neil Wheelwright 1976-1980 5 55 20-35-0 .364 Timothy Larkin 1907-1912 6 51 18-26-7 .421 John DaGrosa 1945-1947 3 29 17-10-2 .621 Anthony Scanlan 1942-1944 3 27 16-8-3 .648 Frank Cavanaugh 1903-1905 3 28 16-10-1 .607 Joseph Sheeketski 1939-1941 3 29 15-11-3 .569 Peter Vaas 1992-1995 4 44 14-30-0 .318 Luke Kelly 1914-1917 4 32 12-17-3 .422 Melvin Massucco 1965-1966 2 20 8-10-2 .450 Tom Boisture 1967-1968 2 20 8-11-1 .425 A.C. Peterson 1896-1897 2 14 6-5-3 .536 William Osmanski 1948-1949 2 20 6-14-0 .300 George King 1906 1 8 4-3-1 .563 Harry Von Kersberg 1913 1 9 3-6-0 .333 Bart Sullivan 1918 1 2 2-0-0 1.000 John Corbett 1898 1 1 1-0-0 1.000 Arthur Corcoran 1932 1 3 0-1-2 .333 Bill Whitton 1969-1970 2 13 0-12-1 .036 Three great nicknames right in a row on that list: Ox (DaGrose), Ank (Scanlan) and The Iron Major (Cavanaugh) . And Cleo of course, although it was his real first name, apparently. Reminds me of a 50s show called The People's Choice.
|
|
|
Post by alum on Oct 16, 2017 9:35:29 GMT -5
Where are Bart Sullivan and John Corbett when HC needs them so badly? Bart Sullivan, of course, is in the HC Hall of Fame, as the track coach for 50 years. Sullivan first arrived at HolyCross in 1912, and coached the men's track program for 50 years.Under his careful and expert direction, many of his track and fieldmen achieved stardom and fame. Sullivan came to the Holy Crosscampus after a great career as an amateur and professional milerand half-miler with the Boston Athletic Club. In 1900 he finishedthird in the BAA Marathon. In 1904, as a member of the U.S. Olympicteam, he finished fourth in the 440. He began his coaching careerin 1906 at Colby College. He also coached at Boston College andBoston College High School before arriving at Holy Cross. Duringthis time, he completely dominated the New England mile field as aprofessional runner.
During his 50 years at Holy Crosshe developed such outstanding Holy Cross track stars as JoeHiggins, Andy Kelly, Joe Tierney, Leo Larrivee, Dr. WalterMulvihill, Jim Daley, Jim Quinn, George Gilson and field eventchampions like Frank Romaka, Dave Murray, Chet Lakonski and MikeCooney. Still others who would be included in any list of the topEastern track stars in the past thirty years are names like DannyMullen, Tom Dignan, Tim Ring and Bernie McCafferty. Paul Murphyheld the New England mile championship and in 1958, Bill Merrittwas the New England indoor and outdoor quarter-mile champion.When arriving at Holy Cross,Sullivan actually served in a dual capacity as the an athletictrainer.
|
|
|
Post by gks on Oct 16, 2017 9:38:51 GMT -5
Since Duffner.....
Peter Vaas .318 Win Pct. Dan Allen .303 Win Pct. Tom Gilmore .471 Win Pct.
All bad coaches?
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Oct 16, 2017 9:39:00 GMT -5
Right you are, alum. But, Bart Sullivan was also an "undefeated" HC football coach (1918), as was John Corbett (1898). With 2 wins, Bart had twice as many victories as John. They are HC's only "undefeated" football coaches and I don't see that record being challenged at any time.
|
|